Does this make sense?

[woobadooba]

I used to think that Rev. 18:4 was speaking of the false church. But after reading the chapter in the light of the current moral condition of my country, it seems to be evident that Babylon is the United States.

What do you think?

 

[OntheDL]

I used to think that Rev. 18:4 was speaking of the false church. But after reading the chapter in the light of the current moral condition of my country, it seems to be evident that Babylon is the United States.

What do you think?

Babylon is religious confusion. Reading the verse 3 tells us the world political system has also been involved with her. Also the verses followed tell us the merchants are made rich by her.

So the religious world, the political world and the financial world are all part of Babylon. It's safe to say the whole world, the worldly system is Babylon. Jesus is coming back to destroy the whole world.

 

[woobadooba]

Babylon is religious confusion. Reading the verse 3 tells us the world political system has also been involved with her. Also the verses followed tell us the merchants are made rich by her.

So the religious world, the political world and the financial world are all part of Babylon. It's safe to say the whole world, the worldly system is Babylon. Jesus is coming back to destroy the whole world.

The merchants of foreign lands are depicted as mourning over what had happened to Babylon. Thus this indicates that something terrible is going to happen to Babylon as a result of God's judgment, that isn't going to happen abroad (in foreign lands). Although, foreign countries will be impacted by this in a negative way because Babylon (the United States) will no longer have any means to trade with them. In this sense, even though they will suffer a loss as a result of this, they will be better off nonetheless, because they won't experience the judgment of God to the degree that the United States will.

Hence, it won't happen all at once. That is, the judgment of God isn't going to be poured out all over the world at the same time that it is going to be poured out on Babylon (the United States). At least this is what the chapter indicates. For, the merchants wouldn't be mourning over Babylon if it were to happen all at once. Rather, they would be mourning over their own countries.

Something terrible is headed this way!

Please read the chapter very closely. Maybe you will see what I see in it.

 

[OntheDL]

The merchants of foreign lands are depicted as mourning over what had happened to Babylon. Thus this indicates that something terrible is going to happen in the United States as a result of God's judgment, that isn't going to happen abroad. Although, foreign countries will be impacted by this in a negative way because Babylon (the Unitied States) will no longer have any means to trade with them.

Please read the chapter very closely. Maybe you will see what I see in it.

United States is not babylon exclusively. So come out of her means go to other parts of the world. I don't think so. vs 11 says the merchants of the earth. I don't see where it sugguests the foreign merchants. The Rothchilds are an European conglamerate which Encyclopedia Judaica calls the Vatican Treasurer that controls the American banking system (Federal Reserves). The entire financial and political system of the world is controlled by the Vatican. United States is only one of the cards the papacy plays.

 

[OntheDL]

Plus the moral conditions of Europe is much worse than in the states. Have you been to Europe lately? Homosexuality is much more common. There are full nudities on the TV during the day. And prostitution is legal in many countries over there.

 

[woobadooba]

United States is not babylon exclusively.

According to the description that the chapter gives and the moral decline that we see happening in this country, the United States seems to be Babylon.

So come out of her means go to other parts of the world. I don't think so.

Actually, the verse says, "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."


This indicates that the people who are partakers of her sins will receive her plagues.

But the people who aren't partakers of her sins will receive God's protection, as did the Israelites during the time of Moses when God brought down the plagues on Egypt.

says the merchants of the earth. I don't see where it sugguests the foreign merchants.

Where does the United States get this stuff? "The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. (Rev 18:12-13 KJV)

 

[woobadooba]

Plus the moral conditions of Europe is much worse than in the states. Have you been to Europe lately? Homosexuality is much more common. There are full nudities on the TV during the day. And prostitution is legal in many countries over there.

You're missing a very important point. Babylon was known to be the most powerful, and wealthy empire in the world back in the day.

So modern day Babylon would have to fit that description. That is, it would have to be the most powerful, and wealthy empire in the world.

The only country that fits this description is the United States.

 

[OntheDL]

According to the description that the chapter gives and the moral decline that we see happening in this country,
the United States seems to be Babylon.



Actually, the verse says,
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

This indicates that the people who are partakers of her sins will receive her plagues.

But the people who aren't partakers of her sins will receive God's protection, as did the Israelites during the time of Moses when God brought down the plagues on Egypt.



Where does the United States get this stuff?

"The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. (Rev 18:12-13 KJV)

The moral condition of other countries are just as bad if not worse. See my last post.

Those are the trades of th bible time. Of course it didn't say micro chips. But United States of today still produces many of these products. For example, USA is the biggest producer of wheat in the world.

 

[woobadooba]

The moral condition of other countries are just as bad if not worse. See my last post.

Read post #7

 

[OntheDL]

You're missing a very important point. Babylon was known to be the most powerful, and wealthy empire in the world back in the day.

So modern day Babylon would have to fit that description. That is, it would have to be the most powerful, and wealthy empire in the world.

The only country that fits this description is the United States.

Please don't try to reinvent the wheel. Our traditional interpretation is perfectly correct. There is nothing more to it. Babylon is the RCC. And the extension of babylon is the world system.

Revelation 18 is the emphasize of 2nd and 3rd angels' message. The Roman Catholism is the summation of all false religions (every false doctrine can be found in Rome). And all religions are uniting with whom? Not USA, but the Church of Rome.

The apostles knew Rome is Babylon. When Peter was in Rome, he wrote:

1 Peter 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Rome was known as babylon by the apostles and the early church fathers.

It was used that way multiple times in works like the Sibylline Oracles (5:159f), the Apocalypse of Baruch (2:1), and 4 Esdras (3:1). Eusebius Pamphilius, in The Chronicle, composed about A.D. 303, noted that “It is said that Peter’s first epistle, in which he makes mention of Mark, was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon.”

Do you think when John was shown the vision about Babylon, he didn't know it was about Rome?

 

[OntheDL]

one more thing, Daniel 2, the statue told us the iron from the leg continued in the feet and the toes. This companion book of revelation told us Rome (the iron) is continued to the divided toes to the end until Jesus breaks them in pieces.

There can be no doubt that Babylon which Jesus shall destroy upon His return is Rome.

 

[woobadooba]

Please don't try to reinvent the wheel. Our traditional interpretation is perfectly correct. There is nothing more to it. Babylon is the RCC. And the extension of babylon is the world system.

And it was perfectly correct on the issue of righteousness by faith before 1888 too, right?

And it is perfectly correct about the IJ and 1844 too, right? Even though the Bible makes it clear that the IJ began in Peter's time.

And the traditional view about the nature of Christ as being sinful is also perfectly right too???

And it's perfectly correct about Ellen White's role as an infallible interpreter of scripture too, right?

And it's perfectly correct about Hebrews 9 too, right?

And it was perfectly correct about the close of probation (shut door theory) too, right?

Honestly, it's closed minded comments like the one you gave above that cause me to want to leave the SDA church!

 

[OntheDL]

And it was perfectly correct before 1888 too, right?

And it is perfectly correct about the IJ and 1844 too, right?

And it's perfectly correct about the nature of Christ too, right?

And it's perfectly correct about Ellen White's role as an infallible interpreter of scripture too, right?

And it's perfectly correct about Hebrews 9 too, right?

And it was perfectly correct about the close of probation too, right?

Honestly, it's closed minded comments like the one you gave above that cause me to want to leave the SDA church!

Sorry, man. I can't help you any more if you are not willing to see. It's very late here on the east coast. Take those issues to someone else. They are not my problems. Don't need to threaten me. I'm not forcing you to stay.

 

[OntheDL]

Just a note for others to see...the source I quoted are Catholic. They don't even deny being Babylon.

 

[woobadooba]

Sorry, man. I can't help you any more if you are not willing to see.

You give yourself too much glory.

You know, it is possible that you may not be right about everything. Although, you do appear to be one who would never admit that when it comes to the traditions that you hold fast too.

Time will prove who does and doesn't have the correct view on this matter. I have a hunch that you will be disappointed.

By the way, the only point that I am arguing here is that the United States fits the description of Babylon in Rev. 18.

 

[woobadooba]

Sorry, man. I can't help you any more if you are not willing to see. It's very late here on the east coast. Take those issues to someone else. They are not my problems. Don't need to threaten me. I'm not forcing you to stay.

Do you think I didn't see the comment that you made before you edited your post?

You told me to feel free to leave the SDA church.

You know, you really have a way of hurting people in here!

 

[Dathen]

My siding is completely with ontheDL. Excepr ontheDL, that last comment really wasn't right. You may be right but we can't just force out that we're right. We need to search the scriptures. It's good that woobadooba is seaeching scriptures and testing things. If we don't ask questions our spiritual lives are dead.

 

[OntheDL]

You give yourself too much glory.

If I disgree with your post, doesn't mean I'm giving myself credit. I've said it many times, Jesus deserves all of it.

You know, it is possible that you may not be right about everything. Although, you do appear to be one who would never admit that when it comes to the traditions that you hold fast too.

Time will prove who does and doesn't have the correct view on this matter. I have a hunch that you will be disappointed.

By the way, the only point that I am arguing here is that the United States fits the description of Babylon in Rev. 18.

I never think I'm always right. The bible is always right. I just showed you Peter called Rome Babylon. If you can show me from the bible when I'm clearly wrong, I'll admit it and change.

As I said a few times already, I have no loyalty to the SDA church, much less SDA tradition. If you show me another church which has more truth, I'd gladly follow. However I've been to none-denominational, pentecostal and baptist, and I know closely what Messianics, Luthern and Calvinist teach. I'm happy with what SDA teaches. Haven't found an obvious contradiction to the Bible yet.

 

[Dathen]

This is turning into quite a heated argument. So please calm down. Let's get someone who should be looked to for answers, being a pastor.

 

[Sophia7]

Thread closed at OP's request.