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Does This Change Your Philosophy?

Eudaimonist

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God Himself has told you of this horrible place. This is not the toothfairy. This is reality.

So you say. Why should anyone believe that this warning comes from "God"? It might as well come from the toothfairy.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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phsyxx

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P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

It probably would change my philosophy if eye had knowledge of a lake of eternal fire, but as it is all eye have is information from stories. Eye might as well believe in Father Christmas, the Devil, the toothfairy, the easter bunny etc etc etc.

SHEM HETEP

Why do you spell "I" as eye?
You realise ewe are ewesing a completely different definition, rite?
 
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ShieldOFaith

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So you say. Why should anyone believe that this warning comes from "God"? It might as well come from the toothfairy.


eudaimonia,

Mark
Read this very carefully:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. 24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 31 "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is valid. 33 "You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. 36 "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41 "I do not accept praise from men, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God? 45 "But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?" --John 5[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Did you understand that? Do you understand any of this? Do you understand that this is not a game that you can reset if you lose? Do you understand the depth and seriousness of this?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Do you?
[/FONT]
 
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The Nihilist

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Read this very carefully:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 17 Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. 24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 31 "If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is valid. 33 "You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light. 36 "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life. 41 "I do not accept praise from men, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God? 45 "But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?" --John 5[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Did you understand that? Do you understand any of this? Do you understand that this is not a game that you can reset if you lose? Do you understand the depth and seriousness of this?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Do you?
[/FONT]

Do you understand that we don't believe the bible is worth the paper it's printed on? If you want to make us believe you, provide evidence that what the bible says is true.
 
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ShieldOFaith

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Do you understand that we don't believe the bible is worth the paper it's printed on? If you want to make us believe you, provide evidence that what the bible says is true.
I don't believe that you don't believe. I believe that you are scared and you want God to go away. All the "don't believe the bible is worth the paper it's printed on..." is an attempt to silence something.

I believe that you know He is there, you just want Him and the thought of Him to go quietly into the night. Which of course He will not do.

Read this:

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 21 Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come." 22 This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?" 23 But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." 25 "Who are you?" they asked. "Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. 26 "I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world." 27 They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28 So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him." 30 Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." 33 They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?" 34 Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know you are Abraham's descendants. Yet you are ready to kill me, because you have no room for my word. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father." 39 "Abraham is our father," they answered. "If you were Abraham's children," said Jesus, "then you would do the things Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the things your own father does." "We are not illegitimate children," they protested. "The only Father we have is God himself." 42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? 47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." 48 The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?" 49 "I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 51 I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." 52 At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?" 54 Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." 57 "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" 58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. --John 8[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Do you understand this? Can you hear this?
[/FONT]
 
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Eudaimonist

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[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Did you understand that? Do you understand any of this? Do you understand that this is not a game that you can reset if you lose? Do you understand the depth and seriousness of this?[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Do you?[/FONT]

From Wikipedia:

In classic Greek mythology, below Heaven, Earth, and Pontus is Tartarus, or Tartaros (Greek Τάρταρος, deep place). It is either a deep, gloomy place, a pit or abyss used as a dungeon of torment and suffering that resides within Hades or the entire underworld with Hades being the hellish component. In the Gorgias, Plato (c. 400 BC) wrote that souls were judged after death and those who received punishment were sent to Tartarus. As a place of punishment, it can be considered a hell. The classic Hades, on the other hand, is more similar to Old Testament sheol.

Do you understand the seriousness of Tartarus?


In Norse mythology, Ragnarök ("Fate of the gods"[1]) is the battle at the end of the world. It will be waged between the Æsir, led by Odin, and the various forces of the Jötnar, including Loki. Not only will most of the gods, giants and creatures involved perish in this apocalyptic conflagration, but almost everything in the universe will be torn asunder.

Do you understand the seriousness of Ragnarök?

What are you doing to prepare for these? Are you studying how to please the Greek gods? Are you training as a warrior to fight in glory with the Aesir?


No?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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quatona

"God"? What do you mean??
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I don't believe that you don't believe. I believe that you are scared and you want God to go away. All the "don't believe the bible is worth the paper it's printed on..." is an attempt to silence something.

I believe that you know He is there, you just want Him and the thought of Him to go quietly into the night. Which of course He will not do.[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
[/FONT]
Your mind readings are one thing, rational discussion is another.
 
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The Nihilist

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I don't believe that you don't believe. I believe that you are scared and you want God to go away. All the "don't believe the bible is worth the paper it's printed on..." is an attempt to silence something.

I believe that you know He is there, you just want Him and the thought of Him to go quietly into the night. Which of course He will not do.[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
[/FONT]

You believe this because you are an idiot. If you said this to my face, we would be stepping outside.
Intellectual integrity is my highest virtue, and it alone has lead me to believe there's no god. You don't think I'd trade this world for what you promise in a second, you feeble-minded wretch? A cost-benefit analysis should make it clear enough. The fact is, I think you're wrong, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
 
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DailyBlessings

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You believe this because you are an idiot. If you said this to my face, we would be stepping outside.
Intellectual integrity is my highest virtue, and it alone has lead me to believe there's no god. You don't think I'd trade this world for what you promise in a second, you feeble-minded wretch? A cost-benefit analysis should make it clear enough. The fact is, I think you're wrong, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
Never mistake a physical threat for a philosophical point, brother. You lay claim to "intellectual integrity", but back this up with insults and spitting like a fifth grader in a playground brawl. Just what do you believe intellectual integrity to be?
 
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The Nihilist

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Never mistake a physical threat for a philosophical point, brother. You lay claim to "intellectual integrity", but back this up with insults and spitting like a fifth grader in a playground brawl. Just what do you believe intellectual integrity to be?

I like you well enough that I will ignore most of what you just said. Stay out of it, brother.
Intellectual integrity consists entirely in being willing to face as true what one would hate to be the case.
 
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ShieldOFaith

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Your mind readings are one thing, rational discussion is another.
Is it rational not to believe in God? NO.

You have to at least give the possibility of God existing a real examination. If you want to call yourself rational.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Is it rational not to believe in God? NO.

You have to at least give the possibility of God existing a real examination. If you want to call yourself rational.

I've done that. My conclusion is that it is rational to lack belief in God.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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quatona

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Is it rational not to believe in God? NO.
That was not the point. Your claim was that all atheists believe in god. Other than that this notion surely floats your boat I see no foundation for this notion.

As for the above statement: If it is not rational to not believe in god I´m sure that can be deduced rationally. A mere ex cathedra claim doesn´t do it for me.


You have to at least give the possibility of God existing a real examination.
If you want to call yourself rational.
Explain why I have to do that in order to gain your permission to call myself rational.
And while we are at it, you may also want to outline the methods of really examing a claim that is designed in a way that escapes rational examination.
 
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S

SedjmNeter

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P.E.A.C.E and Blessings SHEILD...

God Himself has told you of this horrible place. This is not the toothfairy. This is reality.

No God "Himself" has not told me and there is absolutely no way U can proove that "he" has.

You're right this isn't the toothfairy. At least the toothfairy left me money for teeth, all your spook god has done is threaten me of eternal damnation.

And finally, and emphatically, NO, this is not reality, U can not give any real evidence of an eternal lake of fire.

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings PHSYXX...

Why do you spell "I" as eye?
You realise ewe are ewesing a completely different definition, rite?

Yeah eye realise (real eyes;) ). Sorry if it makes it harder to read, long story but it's got to do with the "Supreme Alphabet".

SHEM HETEP
 
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ShieldOFaith

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You believe this because you are an idiot. If you said this to my face, we would be stepping outside.
Intellectual integrity is my highest virtue, and it alone has lead me to believe there's no god. You don't think I'd trade this world for what you promise in a second, you feeble-minded wretch? A cost-benefit analysis should make it clear enough. The fact is, I think you're wrong, and I have no reason to believe otherwise.
Recovering, there is an old saying we have out here. It goes like this; 'If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one who barks, is the one who got hit'.

So a nerve got touched, huh? Guess who is the One doing the touching? Do you think you are reading these words by accident? Do you honestly believe that this universe has no order? This earth and all that is within it just sprang into existence by itself?

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has done all this. He has left many clues and bread crumbs to lead you to Him. He is there. You will not see Him with the naked eye; but He is there. You can listen to the wind whirl through the trees but will not hear His voice. You can reach out your hand but not touch Him.

Where is He?

'Faith comes by hearing the Word of God.'

Peace.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Recovering, there is an old saying we have out here. It goes like this; 'If you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one who barks, is the one who got hit'.

I think you'll find that, not only do dogs bark whether they get hit or not (there are many reasons dogs bark), RecoveringPhilosopher does the same. He's just like that. Maybe it's a Nietzschean thing.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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