Does The New Testament Teach A Flat Earth?

MariaJLM said:

It's obvious. Anybody with a brain can see that the Earth is not flat. I'm saddened for the state of humanity that Flat Earth is still a subject of debate at all.

Click to expand...

It's understandable where ideas of a flat earth came from, and for many practical things of daily life, we still think of earth as flat. But, yeah, it's sad. For me it's not the lack of scientific understanding, which honestly has little practical value for most people. Rather, it's that people think living on an oblate spheroid somehow jeopardizes God's existence or their salvation.

myst33 said:

I see what you are saying, but you cannot see multiple kingdoms from there. Even if we would say that the "whole world" is the Roman empire, still not even close.

Click to expand...

Matthew 4:8 was not an ordinary experience. It wasn't two blokes having a picnic on some high ground.

myst33 said:

Notice that kingdoms are not cities.

Click to expand...

Category:Greek city-states - Wikipedia

He is the msot HIGH and lifted up. We RAISE our hands.. we look UP. Never cared to wonder about it IF it points that way. Even if Heaven was some planet...you would still see Him HIGH and lifted up.

That being said.. a woman that had so much power of God when talking about DREAMS. Well she never would tell you NO THATS NOT OF GOD! She would word it like "well when GOD shows me something it NEVER goes down never has black in it". Lol something always going UP!

Me I dont care..save the lost and JESUS COME!

Michael Collum said:

I do know that the New Testament teaches of a new heaven and new earth .. and also world without end.

Click to expand...

Right, and the English word "world," when used in context with the whole earth, means globe.

FEZZILLA said:

Right, and the English word "world," when used in context with the whole earth, means globe.

Click to expand...

Let'see ...

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
165 αἰών aion ahee-ohn’

from the same as 104; n m; TDNT-1:197,31; {See TDNT 40 }

AV-ever 71, world 38, never + 3364 + 1519 + 3588 6, evermore 4, age 2, eternal 2, misc 5; 128

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age

The use of ages in the passage could be generations ... so best to not do the solo scriptura approach to doctrine. Need more passages.

The English Definition of "World" (KJV).

Flat earthers are quick to deny the reality that H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl means "the habitable globe," or as William Tyndale had generally rendered it, "round world." Though in modern English we read "world" in all the verses where Tyndale had "round world" or where Julia Smith had "the habitable globe." Here is a quick comparison:

Psalm 89:11,

"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (1535 Coverdale Bible and 1537 Matthew's Bible).

"To thee the heavens, also to thee the earth; the habitable globe and its fulness thou didst found them" (1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).

"The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them" (KJV).

Which rendering is correct? Technically they are all correct but the clearer rendering comes from the Tyndale Bibles and Julia Smith Bible (though the Tyndale Bibles are a more mature rendering). Does the KJV disagree with Tybdale and Smith? The answer is no and this is why:

English Definition of World
Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - World

"WORLD, noun [This seems to be a compound word, and probably is named from roundness, the vault; but this is not certain.]
1. The universe; the whole system of created globes or vast bodies of matter.
2. The earth; the terraqueous globe; sometimes called the lower world
3. The heavens; as when we speak of the heavenly world or upper world
4. System of beings; or the orbs which occupy space, and all the beings which inhabit them. Hebrews 11:7.
God--hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things; by whom also he made the worlds. Hebrews 1:6.
There may be other worlds, where the inhabitants have never violated their allegiance to their Almighty sovereign.
10. Mankind; people in general; in an indefinite sense. Let the world see your fortitude.
Whose disposition, all the world well knows--
18. The inhabitants of the earth; the whole human race. John 3:16.
21. Time; as in the phrase, world without end."

You can read the full definition and it agrees with the full meaning of "the habitable globe."

Collins Dictionary
World definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
"1. singular noun
The world is the planet that we live on.
2. singular noun
The world refers to all the people who live on this planet, and our societies, institutions, and ways of life.

world in American
noun
1. a. the planet earth
b. the whole universe
c. any heavenly body thought of hypothetically as inhabited
worlds in space
2. the earth and its inhabitants
3. a. the human race; mankind
b. people generally; the public

world in British
noun
1. the earth as a planet, esp including its inhabitants
5. the universe or cosmos; everything in existence
7. any star or planet, esp one that might be inhabited
9. an area, sphere, or realm considered as a complete environment

Synonyms of 'world'
1 (noun) in the sense of earth
It's a beautiful part of the world.

Synonyms: earth, planet, globe, earthly sphere
2 (noun) in the sense of humankindThe world was shocked by this heinous crime.
Synonyms: humankind, mankind, man, men, everyone, the public, everybody, humanity, human race, the race of man
5 (noun) in the sense of planetconditions which would support life on other worlds
Synonyms: planet, star, orb, heavenly body."

Here again we can read the full definition from the link and we still arrive to the definition of H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl and G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē in the Hebrew and Greek lexicons.

Even an atheist site like Wikipedia agrees with the Hebrew and Greek lexicons!
World - Wikipedia

Wikipedia also defines it as the habitable globe! The world is a globe so when the world is mentioned in the KJV it still means the globe and its inhabitants.

For #4 in the 1828 Webster's Dictionary, there is a reference to Heb.1:6. The word which is translated "world" is G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē which means the habitable globe. In Greek Philosophy the word oikouménē is married to the word antipodes -- and there are no antipodes on a flat earth! So the Greek word oikouménē, being an equivalent to the Hebrew têbêl in which oikouménē was translated from, means the world globe along with its inhabitants. Here are Strong's definitions for oikouménē and gē.

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē

"οἰκουμένη oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication, of G1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:—earth, world."

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G1093 γῆ gē,

"γῆ gē, ghay; contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):—country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world."

The word gē is translated as earth, land, world, in our modern translations. Long before the English word "world" became associated with the globe, the Greek word gē also carried a global meaning in connection with the world; the earth.

Even the more lame Thayer's Greek Lexicon says:

"4. the earth as a whole, the world (Latin terrarum orbis)."
Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

The Latin terrarum orbis is also applied as orbis terrarum.

Latin Definition of orbis terrarum
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...DLXX1dbeHojfhJXzkz9CHaVT6HLTm2PsWVaf-C62U8wZM

The world is described as:

"world noun: mundus, orbis, universitas, orbis terrae, universum

globe noun: globus, sphaera, sphera, tellus, orbis terrae

hemisphere noun: orbis terrarum, hemisphaerium

world globe: orbis terrarum"

How do you say "world globe" in Latin?
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/latin-word-for-dceb55eeed07f166ecd8db67fe274be446d4c2ee.html

"orbis terrarum"

Lets see how it all translates in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin:

Psalm 19:4

English: "Their line went forth into all the earth, and their words into the ends of the habitable globe. In them he set a tent for the sun" (H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl - 1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).

Latin Vulgate, is Psalm 17:16: "et apparuerunt fontes aquarum et revelata sunt fundamenta orbis terrarum ab increpatione tua Domine ab inspiratione spiritus irae tuae"

Phrase: orbis terrarum, H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl & H776 אֶרֶץ ʼerets

Romans.10:18,

English: "But I say, Have they not heard? Surely, in all the earth went out their sound, and their words to the end of the habitable globe" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

The first clause: "But I say, Have they not heard?" alludes to Isaiah 40:21,

"Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?"

The second clause follows the first clause of Isaiah 40:21 but quotes from Psalm 19:4 instead of Isaiah 40:22.

Latin Vulgate: "sed dico numquid non audierunt et quidem in omnem terram exiit sonus eorum et in fines orbis terrae verba eorum"

Phrase: orbis terrae (aka,orbis terrarum), from G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē and G1093 γῆ gē

These are just two verses in the Bible where our English word "world" is directly associated with the globe. There are more. The reason why Paul quoted from Psalm 19:4 instead of Isaiah 40:22 is very clear: he want to chose a word that meant the globe along with its inhabitants and not just a word that means globe. While the Hebrew word chuwg does mean globe/sphere/orb, it does not mean the globe along with its inhabitants as têbêl and oikouménē do. So Paul begins quoting Isaiah 40:21 but for the purpose of capturing the inhabitants of the globe he quotes Psalm 19:4 which, in the LXX, uses oikouménē.

Psalm 19:4 (Ps.18:5) from Greek Septuagint:

"εἰς πᾶσαν τὴν γῆν ἐξῆλθεν ὁ φθόγγος αὐτῶν

καὶ εἰς τὰ πέρατα τῆς οἰκουμένης τὰ ῥήματα αὐτῶν.
ἐν τῷ ἡλίῳ ἔθετο τὸ σκήνωμα αὐτοῦ·"

Word: οἰκουμένης, from H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl,

Isaiah 40:22 does mention the inhabitants of the earth, but it has no Messianic prophecy attached to it as Psalm 19:4 does. So the Apostle Paul quotes from the Messianic verse which uses the word οἰκουμένης (LXX) for the purpose of teaching how the Word of God's Salvation is for all the inhabitants of the globe.

Hence our English word "world" in understood to mean globe.
Some older translations use the word "world" instead of "earth" in Isaiah 40:22. Both words mean the same thing. Our world is also the earth and our earth is defined as a globe.

English Definition of Earth
Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - Earth

So even the word "earth" in English means "globe"!
In order to maintain the belief in the flat earth one has to deny all knowledge. This is when a person becomes delusional.
The Bible teaches globe earth and science teaches globe earth. There is no true knowledge out there supporting any flat earth views.

"And this good news of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in the whole habitable globe for a witness to all nations: and then shall the end come" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Here are some Hebrew and Greek words often translated as "world" in our modern English Bibles.

Old Testament:

Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible

"8398. têbêl, tay-bale'; from H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension, the globe; by implication, its inhabitants; specifically, a particular land, as Babylonia, Palestine:—world [35x] habitable part, [1x].

The word signified, first, the solid material on which man dwells, and that was formed, founded, established, and disposed by God; and secondly, the inhabitants thereof. See TWOT 835h; BDB--385c, 1061d."

Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament.

"TWOT 835h תֵּבֵל têbêl, tay-bale'; world.

This noun is used in three basic situations. First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth, including the atmosphere or heavens (cf. Ps.89:12; II Sam 22:16; et al.). têbêl is often in parallelism or apposition with 'eres (I Sam 2:8; Isa.26:9; 34:1; et al.) when 'eres is used in its broadest sense of "the world." The "world" was created by God, not false gods (Jer.10:12; Ps.93:1) and it belongs solely to him (Ps.24:1). God's eternality is illustrated by his existence before the creation of "world" (Ps.90:2) and his wisdom (perhaps a personification of Christ) was present prior to the world's creation (Prov. 8:26, 31). Creation itself gives a "worldwide" witness to God's glory (Ps.19:4 [H 5]) which should result in Yahweh's praise (Ps.98:2). Yahweh will judge this "world," making it empty (Isa.24:4), though in the millennium God will cause Israel to blossom and fill the whole world with her fruit (Isa.27:6).

Second, têbêl is sometime limited to "countries" or "the inhabitable world." This meaning is more closely related to the root meaning. It refers to the world where crops are raised. This is observed in the judgment message against the king of Babylon (not Satan) for violently shaking the "world" or "inhabitable world" (Isa.13:11; 14:17). Lightning is said to enlighten the "world"---undoubtedly referring to a limited land area (Ps.77:18 [H 19]; 97:4).

Third, têbêl may also refer to the inhabitants living upon the whole earth. This is demonstrated by the parallelism of têbêl with I' umim (Ps.9:8 [H 9]) and 'ammim (Ps.96:13; 98:9). The context of these references is Yahweh's judgment upon the world's inhabitants---a judgment both executed in righteousness and instructive of Yahweh's righteousness (Isa.26:9; 34:1).

In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed. Everything belongs to Yahweh as his creation (Ps.50:12). Yahweh alone controls this world (Job 34:13; Nah 1:5) and his power is over all the earth which always responds to his presence (Job 37:12; Ps.97:4)"."

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology & Exegesis, Volume 4:

"9315. têbêl תֵּבֵל Nom. fem., world (#9315).

OT Found 36x exclusively in poetic texts, the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity. It sometimes occurs in parallelism with 'eres (Jer.10:12; Lam.4:12). Twice it is used together with 'eres, either to express "the whole earth" (Job 37:12), or perhaps in the sense of the inhabited earth (Prov.8:31). It is used frequently in contexts that associate it with Yahweh's creative act and that, as a result, express the stability or durability of the earth (1 Sam.2:8; Ps.89:11 [12]; 93:1; 96:10). It is used when the whole population of the world is referred to (Ps.24:1; 33:8; 98:7; Isa. 18:3; 26:9; Nah.1:5). Isaiah uses têbêl more than any other prophet, mostly in the context of universal judgment (Isaiah 13:11; 24:4; 34:1; cf. Ps.96:13; 98:9).

Land, earth: --> damd (ground, piece of land, soil, realm of the earth, #141); --> 'eres (earth, land, #824); --> têbêl (world, #9315)."

Breakdown of Hebrew Lexicons for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl

Strong's: "; by extension, the globe;"
Gesenius': ",the habitable globe, οἰκουμένη"
TWOT: "First, the noun is employed to represent the global mass called earth" AND "In several passages the sense of têbêl as the globular earth in combination with its inhabitants is clearly observed."
New International: "the word conveys the cosmic or global sense in which 'eres is also sometimes used; i.e., the whole earth or world considered as a single entity."

New Testament:

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G1093 γῆ gē,

"γῆ gē, ghay; contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application):—country, earth(-ly), ground, land, world."

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē

"οἰκουμένη oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication, of G1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:—earth, world."

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G2889 κόσμος kósmos

"κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos; probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world."

These words are most often translated as "world" in our English Bibles. Though here are a few English examples that best capture the literal meanings.

Job 37:12,

"Being turned by his guidance to their doing all that he commanded them upon the face of the habitable globe of the earth" (Strong's H2015 הָפַךְ hâphak, H4524 מֵסַב mêçab, H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl, H776 אֶרֶץ ʼerets -- 1876 Julia E. Smith Bible).

Psalm 89:11,

"The heauens are thine, the earth is thine: thou hast layed the foundation of the rounde world, and al that therin is" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Proverbs 8:31,.

"As for the rounde compasse of this worlde I make it ioyfull: for my delite is to be among the chyldren of men" (1568 Bishop's Bible).

Isaiah 34:1,

"Come ye Heythen and heare, take hede ye people. Herken thou erth & all that is therin: thou round compasse and all that groweth there vpon" (1539 Great Bible).

Jeremiah 10:12,

"But (as for oure God) he made the earth with his power, and with his wisdome hath he fynished the whole compasse of the worlde, with his discrecion hath he spred out the heauens" (1535 Coverdale Bible).

Jeremiah 51:15,

"Yea euen the Lorde of hostes, that wyth his power made the earthe, with hys wysedome prepared the rounde worlde, and with his discrecyon spred oute the heauens" (1537 Matthew's Bible).

Matthew 24:14

"And this good news of the kingdom shall be proclaimed in the whole habitable globe for a witness to all nations: and then shall the end come" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Luke 17:30-34

“It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. Remember Lot's wife! Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left” (NIV84).

Jesus returns with a multitude of angels who surround the earth. On one side of the world it will be day, and on the other side it will be night! This is amazing insight on the roundness of our earth from Jesus Who created it. Jesus knew how to drop a subtle hint to future readers about the shape of the earth.

Luke 21:26,

"Men losing breath for fear and expectation of things coming on the habitable globe: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Acts 17:31

"Wherefore he set a day, in which he is about to judge the habitable globe in justice by the man whom he appointed; having offered faith to all, having raised him from the dead" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Revelation 3:10

"For thou didst keep the word of my patience, and I will keep thee from the hour of temptation, about to come upon the whole habitable globe, to try them dwelling upon the earth" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Revelation 12:9

"And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, he deceiving the whole habitable globe: he was cast into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Revelation 16:14

"For they are the spirits of demons, doing signs, to go out upon all the kings of the earth and of the whole habitable globe, to gather them together for the war of that great day of God, the Omnipotent Ruler" (1876 Julia Smith Bible).

Revelation 13:8

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (KJV).

Words: G1093 γῆ gē, G2889 κόσμος kósmos = whole world; globe.

These are only a few examples and does not cover all 33 globe earth verses in the Bible. Though it can be said that any verse translated "world" in context with the whole world means globe.

Webster's Dictionary 1828
Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - World

Right off the start we see:

1. The universe; the whole system of created globes or vast bodies of matter.

2. The earth; the terraqueous globe; sometimes called the lower world

So the "round world" of the Tyndale Bibles was changed to "world" because it was reasoned that since the world is round it would be easier to just translate said verses as "world" instead of the more defining "round world" that Tyndale wisely translated it as. This change was originally done in the Geneva Bible by the Puritans who were low churchmen who did not have Tyndale's knowledge of Hebrew and Greek. Unfortunately the KJV scholars would also translate said verses as "world" which in time the true true meaning was forgotten and flat earth allegations would arise from atheists. In modern times our knowledge of the spherical earth as read first in the Bible would only be defended by about 4 verses, mainly Isaiah 40:22...a verse where the globular meaning of chuwg would also be forgotten in its proper defense. For A chuwg is a circular planet that encompasses (surrounds) on all sides, where latitude and longitude, horizontal and vertical lines intersect (at the boundary of light and darkness -- Job 26:10). A chuwg circuits...moves in a circle.

The Bible isn't a science book. And if it were written in terms of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, it would be outdated in about 2,000 years as human knowledge of science progresses.

The authors made use of the then-current beliefs about the cosmos to make other points and teach other truths. Those then-current understandings of the cosmos are not what the Bible is intended to reveal, except to the extent God created it and intends to create it anew, and join it with heaven.

To nitpick the Bible because they rounded pi to 3 is just nonsense.

Catfisher said:

The Bible isn't a science book. And if it were written in terms of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, it would be outdated in about 2,000 years as human knowledge of science progresses.

The authors made use of the then-current beliefs about the cosmos to make other points and teach other truths. Those then-current understandings of the cosmos are not what the Bible is intended to reveal, except to the extent God created it and intends to create it anew, and join it with heaven.

To nitpick the Bible because they rounded pi to 3 is just nonsense.

Click to expand...

I agree that the Bible isn't a science textbook. But there is modern science before the era of modern science in the Bible.

The Bible is not called Holy because it contains the opinions of Jews speaking about their culture. The Bible is called Holy because it is the Word of God. God is the one speaking the prophecy...not men.

So it should be no small wonder that Holy Scripture teaches globe earth in both testaments.

FEZZILLA said:

I agree that the Bible isn't a science textbook. But there is modern science before the era of modern science in the Bible.

The Bible is not called Holy because it contains the opinions of Jews speaking about their culture. The Bible is called Holy because it is the Word of God. God is the one speaking the prophecy...not men.

So it should be no small wonder that Holy Scripture teaches globe earth in both testaments.

Click to expand...

People have known the world was round long before Christopher Columbus.

I think you run into trouble trying to find too much modern science in the Bible.

It's really not relevant. The authors expressed the relevant truths contained in the Bible in terms people at that time - and later times - could easily understand. Weathermen still say "sunrise" and "sunset" even though we know the Earth's rotation, and not the sun orbiting the Earth, is the reason for night and day.

Catfisher said:

People have known the world was round long before Christopher Columbus.

I think you run into trouble trying to find too much modern science in the Bible.

It's really not relevant. The authors expressed the relevant truths contained in the Bible in terms people at that time - and later times - could easily understand. Weathermen still say "sunrise" and "sunset" even though we know the Earth's rotation, and not the sun orbiting the Earth, is the reason for night and day.

Click to expand...

I agree in part. There are Books of Prophecy that are not subject to your explanation here. There is the Torah which is also not to be interpreted from the human point of view. There are Books of Wisdom, counting the Apocrypha, and some contain God's words and some neither contain God's words or prophecy. This is a deep conversation and one I have not yet written on but is still on the back burner. Though in general, when we tally of all the Books of the Bible that are not subject to how humans saw the world, we see how we can estimate that 98% of the Bible is God's own words spoken or revealed through prophecy. Even Books like Job and Psalms, though classified as Books of Wisdom, are also Books of Divine Revelation. Yet we do see some Books in the Bible such as Ester, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon that do not contain a single prophecy nor does God speak His words in those Books. Yet the are vital to Jewish antiquity and spiritual growth.

My point is that in 99.5% of all verses I have posted on this forum containing science are not to be understood from the then human perspective, but from God's own perspective. And yes, the Bible does teach Einstein's GR. There are roughly between 100 to 200 verses that teach General Relativity. I don't know the exact number because I never took the time to count them like I have globe earth verses. But Einstein was a Jew and somewhere in the back of his mind there was those verses in the Bible which I believe just sat in the back of his mind while he, whether he realized it or not, drew his understanding from things that were in his mind that influenced how he understood GR. Ironically, Einstein believed the universe was infinite but the results of GR proved the universe had a beginning. So Einstein proved his own beliefs wrong by his own equations. These equations, of course, strongly favored Biblical cosmology. God does have a sense of humor.

myst33 said:

Does The New Testament Teach A Flat Earth?

Click to expand...

Yes, of course it does.

myst33 said:

If we do not accept the idea of a flat disc with firmanent/heaven above it, what sense do these verses make? Note: I am not a flat Earth proponent, my question is for the meaning of these verses in the light of a globe and vast space of the Universe.

"And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."

"But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world."

"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all."

"Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God."

"After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
...Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."


"...He ascended into heaven..." Apostolic Creed

Click to expand...

"He showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment." Even if the world was flat---which it isn't, you still could not see all the kingdoims of the world in a moment no matter how high the mountan. If it was flat the land mass would be huge and you could not take it all in. This was obviously a supernatural event. Satan does do miracles also.
Others have addressed the above and below meaning heavens and earth. Doesn't matter what shape the earth is, heaven is above and the earth is below the heavens.

myst33 said:

If we do not accept the idea of a flat disc with firmanent/heaven above it, what sense do these verses make? Note: I am not a flat Earth proponent, my question is for the meaning of these verses in the light of a globe and vast space of the Universe.

"And he led Him up and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."

"But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world."

"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all."

"Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God."

"After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
...Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."


"...He ascended into heaven..." Apostolic Creed

Click to expand...

Matthew 4:8 & Luke 4:5

"Again, the devil takes him into a very high mount, and shows him all the kingdoms of the world, and their glory" (Matt.4:8 - 1876 Julia Smith Bible).

"And the devil, bringing him into a high mountain, shewed him all the kingdoms of the habitable globe in an instant of time" (Luke 4:5 - 1876 Julia Smith Bible).

The English phrase "the habitable globe" is translated from G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē, which is the Greek equivalent for H8398 תֵּבֵל têbêl.


The only difference in these two verses is that Matthew applied the word G2889 κόσμος kósmos whereas Luke used G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē. Both verses tell us the same account. So is this a case of hyperbole? I don't think so...not in this account. Luke 4:5 is a very clear globe earth verse. I think Matt.4:8 is using kósmos in the same manner Luke used oikouménē. For the battle of souls was then and is now a global battle.

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G3625 οἰκουμένη oikouménē

"οἰκουμένη oikouménē, oy-kou-men'-ay; feminine participle present passive of G3611 (as noun, by implication, of G1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:—earth, world."

The terrene part of the globe is the landmass which is inhabited by humans

The New Strong's Exhaustive Expanded Concordance of the Bible, G2889 κόσμος kósmos

"κόσμος kósmos, kos'-mos; probably from the base of G2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively (morally)):—adorning, world."

Webster's Dictionary 1828, English definition of "world,"

"WORLD, noun [This seems to be a compound word, and probably is named from roundness, the vault; but this is not certain.]

1. The universe; the whole system of created globes or vast bodies of matter.

2. The earth; the terraqueous globe; sometimes called the lower world"

You may check out the rest of the definition here and see that it means the habitable globe.
Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - world

In a moments time is only explained in terms of the supernatural because we're talking about Jesus and Satan and not two ordinary men.

† St.Jerome's Latin Vulgate: Luke 4:5,

"et duxit illum diabolus et ostendit illi omnia regna orbis terrae in momento temporis"

Latin Phrase: orbis terrae

Latin Definition of orbis terrae
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...1UIgHOUDubKvUnlRYXg3woRF84Y7ptN8RSlNqM0yAa0eA

"world noun: mundus, orbis, orbis terrarum, universitas, universum
globe noun: globus, sphaera, orbis terrarum, sphera, tellus"

Words like "orbs, globus, sphera, Sphaera" all carry clear meaning of globe.

Latin Definition of orbis terrarum
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...lqej89uAVg6JXukD4SKpHU0d_rnD1R1KY8d2OVMAVBh9o

"world noun: mundus, orbis, universitas, orbis terrae, universum
globe noun: globus, sphaera, sphera, tellus, orbis terrae
hemisphere noun: orbis terrarum, hemisphaerium
world globe: orbis terrarum

How to say "world globe" in Latin
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...jYCDpF0Asm-Szl6k2Mw8ZfC-LI-c-LBp4rOTeVbd5DH1g

"orbis terrarum"

† St.Jerome's Latin Vulgate: Matt.4:8,

"iterum adsumit eum diabolus in montem excelsum valde et ostendit ei omnia regna mundi et gloriam eorum"

Word: mundi

The Latin word "mundi" is being translated from the Greek kósmos.

Latin Definition for Mundi
https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/t...aUKB96ZS4lu8N0It0i2FK_fHxupV45l_cEHN7Y-pGwnMs

So mundi can be applied to mean: sphaera, planeta, globus, terra -- along with the inhabitants of earth and their kingdoms. Mundi (plural) and mundus (singular)...same word.
mundus - Wiktionary

Thus the Salvator Mundi is what you see in ancient portraits of Jesus holding the globus cruciger (Latin for "cross-bearing orb") in His hand. Jesus is the Savior of the world which has always been understood to be a globe/sphere/0rb.

So the verse you thought meant flat earth in the NT turns out to be a globe earth verse.

As for the rest of the verses you listed, don't you find it a little presumptuous to interpret them as flat earth verses? As for the firmament, have you ever checked the Strong's to see what it means? The word firmament is applied both to the atmosphere of the earth and the space between the earthly sky and the land of earth. But beyond the limits of air there is another firmament...a space...in which God placed the sun, moon and stars in the heavens (plural). Old English Bibles only say "heaven" due to the grammatical rules of the time. All modern Bibles today should have heaven as singular in Genesis 1:8, and heavens (plural) in Genesis 1:14-17. If your modern translation does not read like this than discard it and get a NKJV or MEV. Old English Bibles mean the same thing as our better modern translations on this issue. But the rules of English grammar have changed a lot from then to now. So both the KJV and NKJV (and MEV) read the same. No excuse whatsoever for modern translations that read Genesis 1:14-17 as the singular heaven.