Does the idol have to be removed before you can be saved?

[RobertZ]

Lets say a person has something in their life that could be an idol "such as a gaming computer". Is it Biblical to say that until the idol has been removed that God would withhold salvation from that individual until the person first rid himself of the idol?

The rich young ruler comes to mind here, had the rich young ruler sold all of his idols then Jesus would have saved him right?

 

[faceofbear]

The question is COULD the rich young ruler sell all he had, or was he a slave that needed to be set free?

Robert, whatever people may "label" me here, you're still trying to earn your salvation. You're unwilling to be helpless before God. You refuse to admit you have nothing to offer Him.

Let's say you remove this "idol." What else is hindering your walk with God? Is driving? Better cut that out. Work? Cut that out too. In fact, don't do anything but read your bible and pray 24/7, and some how fit witnessing perfectly into that, and THEN God will save you (sense the sarcasm there, please don't take that seriously).

God requires perfection. Unless that's you, you can't be "saved" by yourself. Even if you repent perfectly 100%, you've still messed up in the past so you still won't be perfect enough. Robert, you need Christ. It's that simple. You don't need to DO anything, you need to let Christ doing what He did.

Christ's examples are not to be taken literally. Ever. The rich young ruler is a point Christ was trying to make. No one can enter the Kingdom by themselves. We are slaves to sin, and unless Christ sets us free, we won't ever be free. And that freedom, in fact, doesn't come completely until death when we are gone from this body of sin and death.

Look, you can continue to ignore me. You can continue to listen to self-righteous teachers who will only point you to yourself. But you won't ever be saved through them. I promise you. You're following what your ears are itching to hear: that you can save yourself. That you must work for your salvation so you can claim credit. The hypocrites pray, "God thank you for not making me a sinner, or even this like this publican," or perhaps, "God thank you for letting me repent and believe, unlike these hypocrites who think they're saved," none of those two are justified. But the one who cries, "Lord! Be merciful to me a sinner!" That is the one who is justified before God. Not because they cried, but because their eyes have been opened to the reality that God must be merciful to them because if it rests at all on them, they cannot be saved.

I mean, Robert, you can ask, "Is perfection needed?" You are asking because you want the answer to be yes. I know that sounds contradicting to what you're thinking, but it is because our hearts are deceitful. We want perfection to be needed, but we want a perfection we can attain. So we lower God's standard saying, "Well, if I just get rid of this, I'll have repented sufficiently and will be able to present myself before God." Repentance is not a thing of legality. It's a thing of contrition of heart.

Unless you change your mind and believe the Gospel, I promise, you will die in your sins. What is the Gospel? It is that Christ has been put over for our sins and raised for our justification. That's it.

Look in the Bible, Robert. Look how much trouble the early Christians had. Look at the Corinthians who were still enslaved to sin. Not little sins, but getting drunk in church. How about the Galatians who were deceived by a Gospel, that wasn't really a Gospel at all, but in fact slavery to the law. Even Peter was deceived by this. What about Peter denying Christ three times? Doesn't this mean God will deny Him? Yet we know He didn't. Why? Not because Peter perfectly repented. But because Peter believes God and God credited it to him as righteousness because he was elected by Christ being His propitiation through faith.

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

[edit]

Take for example Nicodemus. Christ told Nicodemus he must be born again. Do you take that commandment literally? Or is it something Christ must perform in you?

 

[faceofbear]

Robert, you're living under a law. A law that will only work wrath towards you on the day of judgment. Tell me. What is different from you giving up all your idols to obtain salvation, as opposed to a Pharisee obeying the law to obtain salvation?

Romans 4:

14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

 

[Eleiou]

Lets say a person has something in their life that could be an idol "such as a gaming computer". Is it Biblical to say that until the idol has been removed that God would withhold salvation from that individual until the person first rid himself of the idol?

The rich young ruler comes to mind here, had the rich young ruler sold all of his idols then Jesus would have saved him right?

Are people made perfect at the point of saving faith or does being conformed into the image of Jesus Christ suggest that God's children are being refined by the Holy Spirit?

 

[RobertZ]

Look at the Corinthians who were still enslaved to sin. Not little sins, but getting drunk in church. How about the Galatians who were deceived by a Gospel, that wasn't really a Gospel at all, but in fact slavery to the law.

Were either of these two even saved to begin with? especially the corinthians?

Even Peter was deceived by this. What about Peter denying Christ three times? Doesn't this mean God will deny Him? Yet we know He didn't. Why?

You may not agree with me but I think Peter did it out of fear and weakness, I dont believe he really denied Christ with his heart and to me that is different from the one who denies Christ with his whole heart truly meaning what he is saying. Peter was frightened and out of fear and in a moment of weakness he denied knowing Jesus.

Take for example Nicodemus. Christ told Nicodemus he must be born again. Do you take that commandment literally? Or is it something Christ must perform in you?

I take it as something that Christ must perform in a person, the new spiritual birth.

 

[RobertZ]

Robert, you're living under a law. A law that will only work wrath towards you on the day of judgment. Tell me. What is different from you giving up all your idols to obtain salvation, as opposed to a Pharisee obeying the law to obtain salvation?

You could be on to something, I noticed the times in my life that were the darkest was when I was trying to do things to please God. It seemed as though it backfired severly because I promise you to this very day I will never forget sensing Gods frowning down on me through his creation and the sensastion of my skin burning.

I guess instead of pleasing God I was only provoking him which is the last thing that I would ever want to do but I guess when you are trying to please God with your works you are in effect saying that his Son isnt enough.

 

[Goinheix]

Robert, whatever people may "label" me here, you're still trying to earn your salvation. You're unwilling to be helpless before God. You refuse to admit you have nothing to offer Him.

there is nothin you need to do, there is nothing you could do.

doctors dont expect people be healty before visiting him. God dont request we being saints before we accept His santification.

 

[faceofbear]

Were either of these two even saved to begin with? especially the corinthians?

Peter was deceived, and Paul even addresses this in his letter. The Corinthians Paul addressed as infants in Christ. So, yes. They were believers. Even the one who fornicated with his step mother, I believe, has enough evidence of being saved in scripture. But if we say no they weren't, then neither was Peter.

You may not agree with me but I think Peter did it out of fear and weakness, I dont believe he really denied Christ with his heart and to me that is different from the one who denies Christ with his whole heart truly meaning what he is saying. Peter was frightened and out of fear and in a moment of weakness he denied knowing Jesus.

But this is what Christ was speaking of. Denying Him during tribulation.

I take it as something that Christ must perform in a person, the new spiritual birth.

I agree. But it is a fruit, not a root. If you think it is a necessity to be saved, in all kindness, perhaps you better belong in the Catholic forum? Salvation is past, present, and future. It's not a one time ordeal. I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

 

[RobertZ]

If you think it is a necessity to be saved, in all kindness, perhaps you better belong in the Catholic forum?

What do you mean by that? and being born again is a necessity to see the Kingdom of God is it not?

Salvation is past, present, and future. It's not a one time ordeal. I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved.

I agree.

 

[faceofbear]

What do you mean by that? and being born again is a necessity to see the Kingdom of God is it not?

Catholics believe that you must become righteous. That God's grace is infused to you and your sanctification is until you become holy and once you attain that holiness, you'll be saved in the next life. They don't believe in justification by faith, at least not in the way we do. Being born again is, but if you took it literally your response would be like Nicodemus, "Can I man enter into the womb a second time?" Jesus messages had a point. Nicodemus couldn't CHOOSE to be born again, nor could he FORCE himself to be born again. Nicodemus was helpless. So, was Christ telling Nicodemus to do something himself? Or was Christ making a point of showing Nicodemus' need for a Savior?

 

[didi768]

Absolutely not! Having idols is one reason people NEED to find Jesus. Get saved first, work on your idols next. Until you are saved, you won't have the Holy Spirit to give you the power to live the Christian life. The bible says until the helper comes, you're hands are kind of tied. Not in those words of course.

 

[didi768]

I used to think that verse about being BORN AGAIN meant that you cannot actually SEE heaven OR LIVE FOREVER etc.and it still probably does, but sometimes I think it means that maybe your eyes won't be OPEN to see spiritual things! Anyone else take it like that? And the verse too about being born of water AND the spirit was talking about the water as in AMNIOTIC FLUID. We are ALL born of that water at birth, but not all born of the spirit.

 

[Jim2011]

I'm sorry, I believe I am confused.
If I am trying to repent, dont I have to....eliminate, or at least minimise the idols?
I might not get rid of the PC, but I can donate the golden calf or other idols.
Do I or we do this ourselves, or does the holy spirit help us to do it. We like the idol less than we did, and then it gets put on a shelf in the cubbord. If we want to still commit the sins, or use the idols, does that mean we are not relying heavily enouth on God?

 

[didi768]

I'm sorry if I confused you. I think my answers came in the wrong order! Um.Yes. If you are trying to repent, or do better, yes, you must get rid of the idols. If you are not saved yet, you can't worry about that. The order is: Being saved first, work on issues or sins next.
Having idols is very common. Whether it be TV, computers, sleep, food, whatever. You do need the holy spirit to overcome these yes, but you can't even do that unless you are born again or saved.
As far as repenting goes, it does not mean SORROW FOR SIN. Repent really means to CHANGE YOUR MIND, or to go from unsaved to saved. We will always be tempted like Adam as long as we have these earthly bodies, and God knows that. Being good, or trying not to sin will not help you get into heaven. That is by faith only. However, after you get saved, you might not WANT to sin anymore. Romans chapter 6 or 7 talks about that.
Hope this helps?

 

[RobertZ]

but sometimes I think it means that maybe your eyes won't be OPEN to see spiritual things!.

Right on, I have often thought that it could mean that as well.

Anyone else take it like that? And the verse too about being born of water AND the spirit was talking about the water as in AMNIOTIC FLUID. We are ALL born of that water at birth, but not all born of the spirit.

Yes.

 

[Anihilus]

I think it is based on the individual. The Lord deals differently with everybody.

Some people He saves when they are reading the Bible and they all of the sudden are born again.

Others the Lord is drawing and they are calling out for salvation, but are refusing to let go of a couple of sins or so. Those people only find peace once they thoroughly repent. I can point you to numerous testimonies that show this plainly.

I have found by experience that holding on to an idol and refusing to let go of it will cause great doubts as to my estate. There is no peace until it is repented of thoroughly. I find that even if I keep a small way back to it, just in case things don't work out, there is no peace. Peace only comes when the thing is completely surrendered and is done with according to what the Lord is asking.

 

[Andrew12]

*Blind Post, Purely in response to the OP*


Lemme tell ya a short dialogue:


A man comes to an old preacher

Man: I want to be saved. Will you pray with me?
Preacher: sure, lets go down to the hog pen and pray..
Man: WHAT?! I AM NOT GOING TO PRAY IN A STINKY OLD HOG PEN!
Preacher: Fine. I can't help you then

*man leaves and returns the next day*

*the same conversation occurs, and again for 5 days.*

On the 6th day the man is under such conviction of the Holy Spirit that he decides that anything he has to do is worth salvation. so he comes to the preacher again:

Man: I want to be saved. will you pray with me?
Preacher: sure son, lets go to the Hog pen.
Man: okay, I'll go pray in the hog pen with you.
*the man turns to walk to the Hog pen*
Preacher: son, wait. we don't have to go, you just had to be willing to go.




Moral of the story:

Just as in the story of Nicodemus, for salvation, you must be wholeheartedly willing to give everything up for God. it doesn't mean that God expects you to sell everything and live in poverty. It is a matter of are you willing to give up those things that you have put before God, just as Nicodemus put his wealth and materialistic possessions beore his willingness to serve God.

 

[savedfromdistruction]

Lets say a person has something in their life that could be an idol "such as a gaming computer". Is it Biblical to say that until the idol has been removed that God would withhold salvation from that individual until the person first rid himself of the idol?

The rich young ruler comes to mind here, had the rich young ruler sold all of his idols then Jesus would have saved him right?

Hello Robert. Your question requires a little more then yes or no. Scripture says that salvation takes repentance towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus Christ Acts 20:21.
Repentance turning to God from our heart, not overcoming our sins and faults. faith is taking that heart (spirit) and placing it on the Lord Jesus Christ.
There is no almost repenting. Either a person is ready to get right with God or they are not. Repentance is not 50% or 75% or even 99%. It is 100%. While many may want to escape the fires of hell, not many are willing to turn to God no matter what it will cost them. The rich young ruler is an example.
He was willing to live a very good life, but the one thing he was asked to give up he would not so he proved he was not real. In the case of gaming computer if that is what is keeping a person from turning to God then yes they have to be willing to depart with it.
In other words if the gaming computer causes them to walk away from God then that would have to go to get to Him.

 

[Osage Bluestem]

Lets say a person has something in their life that could be an idol "such as a gaming computer". Is it Biblical to say that until the idol has been removed that God would withhold salvation from that individual until the person first rid himself of the idol?

The rich young ruler comes to mind here, had the rich young ruler sold all of his idols then Jesus would have saved him right?

One must determine what is and is not sin in their lives. One isn't justified until they trust in Christ and repent of their sins. So whatever is sin in your life you should repent of it.

A gaming computer isn't in and of itself sinful. It is what you do with it that makes it sinful.

 

[JSGuitarist]

I went through this same thing a while ago. I kept feeling like until I had repented of this or that, I then couldn't be saved. I did that on the basis that I had to have a universal repentance of all sin. Of course, I would get rid of the thing, think I was alright, but then I would find another sin. I would get rid of that, then there was another one. Then another. Then another. Repentance became very heavy and unbearable. I would fight and strain over gnats until I thought I had gotten them out, but eventually it became so difficult, so painful and so overwhelming, and I seemed to be getting worse and not better, I began despairing. Along with it came a hatred for repentance, and bitterness towards God. Holiness became like misery. But repentance comes easy when you are trusting only in Christ.

If you are not saved until you cast out the idols, then you must earn merit before God. It might not be with the Old Covenant laws, but you make a law of works out of New Covenant graces, such as faith, repentance, Christian love, etc., which is to just put yourself back under the law, and then make yourself a debtor to the whole Law again (Galatians 5:3).

If I need a perfect repentance before I can be saved, then I'm lost, and I must give up all hope. But Christ justifies apart from works, and has saved me apart from anything I've done. I must rest on that.

Where else will you go? It's either this way or none. Judas had a very thorough repentance: He acknowledged his sin in general ("I have sinned"), he acknowledged it in particular, ("I have betrayed innocent blood"), he confessed it openly, and he returned the money. Yet for all of this he was cast into hell. His repentance is essentially the same as the rich man in Luke: "I've done everything I was supposed to; what more is there to do?" Many people who have cried the loudest, wept the hardest, been the sorriest, prayed the longest, nonetheless turned out of the way and went back to the world. It's because there is absolutely no justification in the act of faith, in the act of repentance, no matter how good they might appear to be, but we in our pride do not believe this; Christ might open the door all the way for us to walk in and yet we'll begrudge him because he won't shut it at least a little so we could open it a little.

The only way is by simple trust and reliance on God. By all means one should feel burdened if they rely on repentance or faith, because our faith and repentance are sin apart from faith. To have faith is to say, "I can't, but you can." This is the only pathway to eternal life that exists, and the privilege and freedom of this covenant is the most wonderful that a man could ask for. It really is as good as it sounds. The only thing that holds us back from it is simple unbelief, which is no less than to say that God is a liar and does not keep His Word.