Does the father have a say in Abortion?

[DoseOFReality]

All throughout my school, woman's right to choose slogan is rampant, but got me to think, "does the father have any say because he is half responsible for the conception?" I know people have responded to me saying "the fetus is not in the man's body but woman's," which is true, but it still leaves the question unanswered.

Why is it that men pay child support when a woman pregnant and he doesnt want the baby? Dont men have the right to choose as much as the woman who decides the fate of the baby? This is hypocritical.

Isnt my argument valid, that if a woman has the right to have an abortion after unplanned pregnancy, the man has the right to not be bound to the fetus which he did not want?

If my dog strolls into my neighbor's backyard and takes a dump and harms the grass, shouldnt I, as the owner of the dog have a say before the neighbor decides to shoot the dog?

 

[Jonathan David]

1. People should have the conversation about "what happens if there is a pregnancy" before the pregnancy occurs. If they do, they solve a lot of problems.

2. If they have failed to have that conversation, I believe that it is completely a woman's right to choose whether or not she will have an abortion.

3. If the woman changes her mind, I think that this would really suck for the guy. I think that this would be hard... but I also think that, if he respects her, he will understand that she is not doing it to spite him but because she is not at a place where she is ready to/wants to carry a baby to term... and he will respect this decision. I think that this is the hard area. I feel horribly sorry for the guy in this case but, ultimately I believe in the woman's right to control her own body.

4. A man does not pay child support because he is a man. When people agree to have a child, they agree to raise it together. When people are careless (or EXTREMELY unlucky... (that is, they properly took enough precautions but the contraception did not work).... it remains the woman's right to control her body... nobody can force a woman to have an abortion. Unwanted pregnancies are a risk of sex... we ALL know that. In such cases, the partners have a shared responsibility for the child. I assume that if a couple had a child and the child lived with the father, the mother would have financial responsibilities for the child also... if I am wrong, that is terribly unjust... but I cannot imagine that I am wrong here.

That we imagine that it is the Father who has financial responsibilities says a lot about the ways that we imagine gender and who is the primary caregiver of a child.

So, I guess that I don't think that the man has a say when there is a disagreement... hopefully they will have it all sorted out ahead of time so that there won't be one... but if there is, it is the woman's body and the woman's choice.

 

[CSMR]

1. People should have the conversation about "what happens if there is a pregnancy" before the pregnancy occurs. If they do, they solve a lot of problems.

Replace this conversation with a marriage and I quite agree.

 

[DoseOFReality]

1. People should have the conversation about "what happens if there is a pregnancy" before the pregnancy occurs. If they do, they solve a lot of problems.

2. If they have failed to have that conversation, I believe that it is completely a woman's right to choose whether or not she will have an abortion.

3. If the woman changes her mind, I think that this would really suck for the guy. I think that this would be hard... but I also think that, if he respects her, he will understand that she is not doing it to spite him but because she is not at a place where she is ready to/wants to carry a baby to term... and he will respect this decision. I think that this is the hard area. I feel horribly sorry for the guy in this case but, ultimately I believe in the woman's right to control her own body.

4. A man does not pay child support because he is a man. When people agree to have a child, they agree to raise it together. When people are careless (or EXTREMELY unlucky... (that is, they properly took enough precautions but the contraception did not work).... it remains the woman's right to control her body... nobody can force a woman to have an abortion. Unwanted pregnancies are a risk of sex... we ALL know that. In such cases, the partners have a shared responsibility for the child. I assume that if a couple had a child and the child lived with the father, the mother would have financial responsibilities for the child also... if I am wrong, that is terribly unjust... but I cannot imagine that I am wrong here.

That we imagine that it is the Father who has financial responsibilities says a lot about the ways that we imagine gender and who is the primary caregiver of a child.

So, I guess that I don't think that the man has a say when there is a disagreement... hopefully they will have it all sorted out ahead of time so that there won't be one... but if there is, it is the woman's body and the woman's choice.

Ok it is the womans choice. Im not talking about that. Im talking about the financial burden. Woman can have an abortion despite the opinion of the man. But why do men have to pay child support if the man never wanted the child and want the baby to be aborted? That is the hypocracy I see. Im not saying its the right thing to do for a man to be careless, im asking the fundamental question. Is the man obligated to pay child support for the kid he did not want? It just seems awfully unfair that same right to choose the woman has is not applied for men. A man cannot tell the woman to have an abortion because that is her body and her property. However, just as much as woman can have an abortion despite the man's opinion, a man should refuse child support on children he did not want.

 

[The Seeker]

Ok it is the womans choice. Im not talking about that. Im talking about the financial burden. Woman can have an abortion despite the opinion of the man. But why do men have to pay child support if the man never wanted the child and want the baby to be aborted? That is the hypocracy I see. Im not saying its the right thing to do for a man to be careless, im asking the fundamental question. Is the man obligated to pay child support for the kid he did not want? It just seems awfully unfair that same right to choose the woman has is not applied for men. A man cannot tell the woman to have an abortion because that is her body and her property. However, just as much as woman can have an abortion despite the man's opinion, a man should refuse child support on children he did not want.

The man doesn't have to bear the child though. Yet he is just as responsible for any pregancy that results. Woman's right to control their body is a separate issue altogether.

 

[snowydc2003]

It is a womans right to choose but if at all possible (every case is different) the man should be consulted and they should come to a decision together.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

It is a womans right to choose but if at all possible (every case is different) the man should be consulted and they should come to a decision together.

My thougths exactly. The man should have his voice heard but the mother is the one that ultimately should decided, and if she listens to his opinion and considers it, that's fair enough, her opinion should carry the greater weight of the two. The fathers opinion should not be given equal weight, just some consideration.

Ghost

 

[re:pit]

Ultimately it is the womans choice. Not only is she the one who will have to carry to term, but society dictates that more likely than not - she will be the primary caregiver of the resulting child.

It is unfortunate that men have no choice. Personally I think that if a man doens't want to pay child support - he can choose not to - but should fortiet any visitation or contact rights with the child.

If the woman expects that the father will support her financially, but he decides he doesn't want to provide support or be a part of the childs life - that is sad - but tough luck. She is on her own. That is why it is important for the couple to discuss before it happens.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

All throughout my school, woman's right to choose slogan is rampant, but got me to think, "does the father have any say because he is half responsible for the conception?" I know people have responded to me saying "the fetus is not in the man's body but woman's," which is true, but it still leaves the question unanswered.

Why is it that men pay child support when a woman pregnant and he doesnt want the baby? Dont men have the right to choose as much as the woman who decides the fate of the baby? This is hypocritical.

Isnt my argument valid, that if a woman has the right to have an abortion after unplanned pregnancy, the man has the right to not be bound to the fetus which he did not want?

If my dog strolls into my neighbor's backyard and takes a dump and harms the grass, shouldnt I, as the owner of the dog have a say before the neighbor decides to shoot the dog?

No incentives for the woman and justice/morality has little to do with it.
I don't see your suggestion as being welcomed by females.

Why would a woman wish to give up her power to choose life or death regardless of it being possible only with a contribution from a man or the innocence of the growing human life? I also don't see it being welcomed to give up the power and ability to dismiss accountability for something that constitutes 9-10 months of difficulty (maybe) AND the power and ability to hold someone else in financial servitude for 18 +/- years. Once power is given to someone, they are very reluctant to give it up - especially if it approaches absolute power.

Being 'fair' or just has nothing to do with it. Justice would require that it be balanced and that the conditions or weight of the matter were equally distributed.

As it is, the courts enjoy the ability to pick and choose when they to apply morality:

It is void of morality to ignore that the life was created by two people or that the life that is dependant for a short period of time is innocent. Void of morality to consider only one party in the choice to kill the life and ignore the other party in the desire to keep the life.

It is an attempt at morality to hold the second party also accountable for the financial responsibilities for a life that is innocent and will require care. It is an attempt at morality to allow only one party to keep the life and ignore the other party in the desire to terminate the life.



It is all mostly preventable if the people involved exercised self-restraint and other morally based decision making. IOW - stray from the correct path and expect difficulties.

 

[levi501]

two people play... but only one gets a choice in whether to pay.


Explanation...
With abortion being legalized in this country women get the choice whether or not they want to take on the financial responsibility of supporting a child for the next 18 years, while men have no choice what so ever... they are at the whim of the woman.
Herein lies the inconsistency and the inequality...
It takes two to tango... but the woman is given the choice on whether she wants to own up to the responsibility of her actions.
Now I'm not advocating that men should have any say over a woman's body...
I'm saying that when a woman becomes pregnant, the father should have the choice to give up all rights and financial responsibilities to that child. I think this needs to be done very early in the pregnancy so the woman knows before time has elasped to have an abortion if she'll have a father to help support the child.

 

[The Seeker]

two people play... but only one gets a choice in whether to pay.


Explanation...
With abortion being legalized in this country women get the choice whether or not they want to take on the financial responsibility of supporting a child for the next 18 years, while men have no choice what so ever... they are at the whim of the woman.
Herein lies the inconsistency and the inequality...
It takes two to tango... but the woman is given the choice on whether she wants to own up to the responsibility of her actions.
Now I'm not advocating that men should have any say over a woman's body...
I'm saying that when a woman becomes pregnant, the father should have the choice to give up all rights and financial responsibilities to that child. I think this needs to be done very early in the pregnancy so the woman knows before time has elasped to have an abortion if she'll have a father to help support the child.

Thing is, men don't get pregnant, we don't have to bear the pregnancy and give birth to the child (thank God ) and its not our lives that are at risk if there is a problem. Personally I'm quite happy for it to be the woman's right to chose and I'm also quite happy to take responsibility for the consequences of my actions.

 

[Ledifni]

All throughout my school, woman's right to choose slogan is rampant, but got me to think, "does the father have any say because he is half responsible for the conception?" I know people have responded to me saying "the fetus is not in the man's body but woman's," which is true, but it still leaves the question unanswered.

Why is it that men pay child support when a woman pregnant and he doesnt want the baby? Dont men have the right to choose as much as the woman who decides the fate of the baby? This is hypocritical.

Isnt my argument valid, that if a woman has the right to have an abortion after unplanned pregnancy, the man has the right to not be bound to the fetus which he did not want?

If my dog strolls into my neighbor's backyard and takes a dump and harms the grass, shouldnt I, as the owner of the dog have a say before the neighbor decides to shoot the dog?

What it comes down to, for me, is that the woman's right to choose does not stem from the fact that she is the mother. The woman's right to choose stems from the fact that her body houses the fetus, thereby making her rights subordinate to its rights. The mother, then, is given limited control of the fetus's rights until it becomes a self-sufficient person in its own right.

To answer your question, if your dog is violating the neighbor's rights sufficiently, a court will probably rule that no, you didn't have a say in whether your neighbor could shoot your dog.

 

[levi501]

Thing is, men don't get pregnant, we don't have to bear the pregnancy and give birth to the child (thank God ) and its not our lives that are at risk if there is a problem.

women don't have to worry about this either if they decide to have an abortion, so what's your point?

Personally I'm quite happy for it to be the woman's right to chose and I'm also quite happy to take responsibility for the consequences of my actions.

well I guess you might as well be happy seeing as you don't have a choice... unlike the mother.

 

[Seeking...]

In my perfect world, women and men would both have limited choices. A man and woman who are not in a committed relationship would not have rights to each other's womb or wallet. Meaning - he can't control whether or not she aborts and she doesn't get a dime. People would have to prove marriage, cohabitation or an ongoing relationship for a period of at least 6 months in order to have some say so. In the same token, a man who was in a committed relationship would be able to prevent an abortion and a woman would be able to get child support.

I think it would work two fold - I think people would be a more conscious of their sexual partners and their birth control.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

The man should be able to charge the woman with murder if she aborts his son or daughter, I know two men that went through that and they still many years later mourn the death of thier child.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

The man should be able to charge the woman with murder if she aborts his son or daughter, I know two men that went through that and they still many years later mourn the death of thier child.

And if the man forces his wife to carry a child to term that she does not want what should he be charged with?

What if she dies in child birth?

Ghost

 

[jayem]

A man and woman who are not in a committed relationship would not have rights to each other's womb or wallet. Meaning - he can't control whether or not she aborts and she doesn't get a dime. People would have to prove marriage, cohabitation or an ongoing relationship for a period of at least 6 months in order to have some say so. In the same token, a man who was in a committed relationship would be able to prevent an abortion and a woman would be able to get child support.

Interesting ideas. You should lobby your state representative to modify your child support laws.

The last part though, about a man in a longer term relationship being able to overrule an abortion violates the USSC's Casey v. Planned Parenthood decision. That was the ruling which formalized the doctrine that a father, even a husband, cannot interfere with a woman's choice to seek an abortion. May not be totally fair, but that's the current state of the law.

But nobody's mentioned that in many cases, boyfriends, other family members, or husbands pressure a woman into an abortion against her will. I don't know if there is any reliable data on this, but I'll bet that's more common than the scenario in the OP. This is also a violation of a woman's rights, but it's not publicized too much.

 

[jesusfreak3786]

And if the man forces his wife to carry a child to term that she does not want what should he be charged with?

What if she dies in child birth?

Ghost

He should have to take full rights of the baby after it's born. The instance of maternal death is so incredibly low in this country that I doubt that would be a problem.

 

[levi501]

But nobody's mentioned that in many cases, boyfriends, other family members, or husbands pressure a woman into an abortion against her will. I don't know if there is any reliable data on this, but I'll bet that's more common than the scenario in the OP. This is also a violation of a woman's rights, but it's not publicized too much.

It depends on the type of presure being applied to determine if it's violating her rights. A man threatening violence to a woman would be illegal, while a father expressing his opinion on the topic is warranted and justified.
This doesn't mean she has to listen to him... but if anyone's opinion should be considered even minutely, it should be his.

 

[dkara]

All throughout my school, woman's right to choose slogan is rampant, but got me to think, "does the father have any say because he is half responsible for the conception?" I know people have responded to me saying "the fetus is not in the man's body but woman's," which is true, but it still leaves the question unanswered.

Why is it that men pay child support when a woman pregnant and he doesnt want the baby? Dont men have the right to choose as much as the woman who decides the fate of the baby? This is hypocritical.

Isnt my argument valid, that if a woman has the right to have an abortion after unplanned pregnancy, the man has the right to not be bound to the fetus which he did not want?

If my dog strolls into my neighbor's backyard and takes a dump and harms the grass, shouldnt I, as the owner of the dog have a say before the neighbor decides to shoot the dog?

**Intercourse=2 consenting adults==baby

Birth control fails--condoms break===baby's happen.

The child did not ask to be born.

The consenting man and woman each knew a baby could result from intercourse--so both should be responsible financially--if the child is brought to life.

Men--Don't poke her if you are not prepared to financially support a child.

Women don't get poked unless you are financially prepared to be a mother.

Why should you be off the hook because you wanted her to have an abortion and she didn't do so? You knew the equation at the beginning [let me reiterate INTERCOURSE=TWO CONSENTING ADULTS==BABY]

That's the short and sweet of it. Stay in your own yard and keep it in your pocket or be prepared to be a parent.