Does the Bible teach that obedience is expected after salvation?

[gideons300]

There is much discussion, much of it heated, as to whether obedience is needed after we are saved. On the one side we have the thought that once saved, nothing can cause us to lose it. On the other side the thought that we must be holy and fully obedient to stay saved or we can lose it. Is that a fair assessment of both sides?

To both, I would offer up this verse.

"He became the author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him."

Let's note that we are not told that it is to all those who try to obey Him but of course who cannot because they are only human.

Let's also note that it is not talking about those who are not all fanatical about obedience because they have a deeper revelation of grace.

If this one verse is to be taken at face value, then both sides are wrong. I will not list all the verses that tie obedience and salvation together, but they are there. We have been bought. We are not our own. When we repented and believed at our salvation, did we understand what it meant? That we were surrendering control of our hearts to Him?

We think obedience was the covenant of the Law. And it was.

Obey my voice and I will be your God and you will be my people."

What happened? The things men wanted to do, they didn't do' and the things they did not want to do, that they did.

So a new covenant was brought about. Grace. Now we have interpreted tthat to mean we try to obey, or perhaps we don't, but either way, grace assures us of salvation with obedience having NO bearing on our salvation. In other words under the new covenant, the things we want to do, we do not, and the things we do not want to do we do, but grace saves us anyway. But the above scripture clearly refutes this.

And if obedience is an actual built in part of salvation, we see only one alternative.... working for it.... law... What we have missed is that there is another and it is clearly stated in God's own Word. Under this amazing new covenant, obedience is no more a requirement, it is promised! God specifically states in Ezekiel 36 that He will cause us to walk as obedient children. Glory to God.

We can try to run from the need for full obedience as if it is asking too much, but God says it is totally reasonable for us to walk as living sacrifices. Or, we can steel ourselves that we MUST be holy, and by gosh we will do it. No, we won't. Time should have taught us that.

God is opening our eyes to His new and living way, Christ in us obeying for us, through us. If we are dead and it is now Christ who lives in us, who is now in control? Will He not obey?

Do we see? There IS perfect security and it is found as we clothe ourselves with our new nature. That is why grace teaches us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly. Grace makes sure we WILL obey!

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[StephanieSomer]

There is much discussion, much of it heated, as to whether obedience is needed after we are saved. On the one side we have the thought that once saved, nothing can cause us to lose it. On the other side the thought that we must be holy and fully obedient to stay saved or we can lose it. Is that a fair assessment of both sides?

To both, I would offer up this verse.

"He became the author of eternal salvation to all those who obey Him."

Let's note that we are not told that it is to all those who try to obey Him but of course who cannot because they are only human.

Let's also note that it is not talking about those who are not all fanatical about obedience because they have a deeper revelation of grace.

If this one verse is to be taken at face value, then both sides are wrong. I will not list all the verses that tie obedience and salvation together, but they are there. We have been bought. We are not our own. When we repented and believed at our salvation, did we understand what it meant? That we were surrendering control of our hearts to Him?

We think obedience was the covenant of the Law. And it was.

Obey my voice and I will be your God and you will be my people."

What happened? The things men wanted to do, they didn't do' and the things they did not want to do, that they did.

So a new covenant was brought about. Grace. Now we have interpreted tthat to mean we try to obey, or perhaps we don't, but either way, grace assures us of salvation with obedience having NO bearing on our salvation. But the above scripture clearly refutes this.

We see only one alternative.... working for it.... law... but there is another and it is clearly stated in God's own Word. Under this amazing new covenant, obedience is no more a requirement, it is promised! God specifically states in Ezekiel 36 that He will cause us to walk as obedient children. Glory to God.

We can try to run from the need for full obedience as if it is asking too much, but God says it is totally reasonable for us to walk as living sacrifices. Or, we can steel ourselves that we MUST be holy, and by gosh we will do it. No, we won't. Time should have taught us that.

God is opening our eyes to His new and living way, Christ in us obeying for us, through us. If we are dead and it is now Christ who lives in us, who is now in control? Will He not obey?

Do we see? There IS perfect security and it is found as we clothe ourselves with our new nature. That is why grace teaches us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we are to live soberly, righteously and justly. Grace makes sure we WILL obey!

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Svt4Him]

No one verse is "taken at face value" as that's a very poor way to study the Bible.

 

[gideons300]

No one verse is "taken at face value" as that's a very poor way to study the Bible.

And I would heartfelt agree. How about these?

He gives the Holy Spirit to them that obey Him."

Or

"why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do the things I command you?"

Shall I add a handful more? Have we come to the point that we have come to the state where this is even questionable? But here we are non the less. I pray none seek to say that they understand grace better now and obedience was somehow done away with as to being an important part of our salvation. for Jesus made it as plain as He can.

You are my friends if you do whats over I command you."

Do we not see the obvious? Obedience is not optional. Bowing our knee and making Him Lord of our lives by necessity means surrender. We stop being our own Lord, and make Him who alone is worthy to be BOTH savior and Lord.

And if obedience is to be expected of us, do we not see that He knows the impossibility of our situation, for best intentions aside, we fail continually. There is an answer.... A miracle! God will inhabit us and cause us to waik in obedience to His inner whispers. That is how amazing grace really is.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[StephanieSomer]

And I would heartfelt agree. How about these?

"HE GIVES THE holy Spirit to them that obey Him."[COLOR]

Or

"why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do the things I command you?"

Shall I add a handful more? Is that necessary that we have come to the state where this is I even questionable, but here we are. I pray none seek to say that they understand grace better for Jesus made it as plain as He can.

You are my friends if you do whats over I command you."

Do we not see the obvious? Obedience is not optional. Bowing our knee and making Him Lord of our lives by necessity means surrender. We stop being our own Lord, and make Him who alone is worthy to be BOTH savior and Lord.

And if obedience is to be expected of us, do we not see that He knows the impossibility of our situation, for best intentions aside, we fail continually. There is an answer.... A miracle! God will inhabit us and cause us to waik in obedience to His inner whispers. That is how amazing grace really is.

Blessings,

Gideon

Gideon, I will admit that for quite a few months I misunderstood many of your posts, thinking them to be based on a works ethic. After rereading a few of them a month or so ago, I realized that you are saying exactly what I have been saying for so long. It's NOT about works! And, the only obedience required is that of being obedient to the faith. I'm under no obligation to DO anything but believe God WILL create in me a clean heart that LOVES HIS Word, and loves righteousness, and WILL complete His good work in me as He sees fit, in His timing.

And, GLORY TO GOD, it DOES work!.

 

[gideons300]

Gideon, I will admit that for quite a few months I misunderstood many of your posts, thinking them to be based on a works ethic. After rereading a few of them a month or so ago, I realized that you are saying exactly what I have been saying for so long. It's NOT about works! And, the only obedience required is that of being obedient to the faith. I'm under no obligation to DO anything but believe God WILL create in me a clean heart that LOVES HIS Word, and loves righteousness, and WILL complete His good work in me as He sees fit, in His timing.

And, GLORY TO GOD, it DOES work!.

It is very understandable that on the surface, what I share sounds like works. Why? Because we see the only possibility of us changing is us doing it. But God has ordained that in His plan, we are yoked and He does the causing,, changing us from the inside out.

But this is critical. First, it must be NOW faith. We are not asked to believe we will one day be clean, light, holy. We are asked to believe that inside, at our core, we ARE clean..... We ARE light.... We ARE holy.... NOW.

and if this is true, there is no traitor...self....the flesh....remaining. it is no more a battle of our 'bad self' vs. our 'good self'. The black dog is dead. That is why Paul tells us in Romans 8 that we are not in the flesh
and owe it nothing.

This is how we resist Satan, steadfast in the faith..... that we are new creatures with new natures. Who were the over comers in Revelations? Those who combined the blood of the lamb with the words of their testimony. There it is!

When we give our all to obey Him, and fail miserably, it is then the law has done its work, brought us low, guilty not of sins but of our very nature being SIN....self ruled..it is only then we truly come to the point of hating our life, hating the independent part of us that at times has the audacity to tell God "No."

And praise God when we do come humbly before Him, agreeing that our flesh, our old nature, MUST die, it is then we see we can literally put it off like a dirty robe and disavow its ownership any longer. Faith will then be energized inside us to believe that like Jesus, we too are new. We CAN obey!

I am glad you hung with me.

Blessings Stephanie

Gids

 

[StephanieSomer]

It is very understandable that on the surface, what I share sounds like works. Why? Because we see the only possibility of us changing is us doing it. But God has ordained that in His plan, we are yoked and He does the causing,, changing us from the inside out.

But this is critical. First, it must be NOW faith. We are not asked to believe we will one day be clean, light, holy. We are asked to believe that inside, at our core, we ARE clean..... We ARE light.... We ARE holy.... NOW.

and if this is true, there is no traitor...self....the flesh....remaining. it is no more a battle of our 'bad self' vs. our 'good self'. The black dog is dead. That is why Paul tells us in Romans 8 that we are not in the flesh
and owe it nothing.

This is how we resist Satan, steadfast in the faith..... that we are new creatures with new natures. Who were the over comers in Revelations? Those who combined the blood of the lamb with the words of their testimony. There it is!

When we give our all to obey Him, and fail miserably, it is then the law has done its work, brought us low, guilty not of sins but of our very nature being SIN....self ruled..it is only then we truly come to the point of hating our life, hating the independent part of us that at times has the audacity to tell God "No."

And praise God when we do come humbly before Him, agreeing that our flesh, our old nature, MUST die, it is then we see we can literally put it off like a dirty robe and disavow its ownership any longer. Faith will then be energized inside us to believe that like Jesus, we too are new. We CAN obey!

I am glad you hung with me.

Blessings Stephanie

Gids

Smiling from ear to ear!

 

[Frogster]

Gidster, who was at work here, man with willpower and law, or........

God?


1 Thess 3:12 and may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, as we do for you, 13 so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.

Bro, if your hope is in your obedience, that will fail, because that is a willpower anchor, all dependant on you as center, not the anchor behind the curtain in Hebrews 6:19, that is sure and steadfast, your obedience is not that, nor mine, it was never intended to run the show, the law era ended bro.

But if your walk is Jesus dependant, and resting in His imputed righteousness, that will never fail, because he can not fail, but you can.

There ya gooooo

 

[StephanieSomer]

Gidster, who was at work here, man with willpower and law, or........

God?


1 Thess 3:12 and may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, as we do for you, 13 so that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.

Bro, if your hope is in your obedience, that will fail, because that is a willpower anchor, all dependant on you as center, not the anchor behind the curtain in Hebrews 6:19, that is sure and steadfast, your obedience is not that, nor mine, it was never intended to run the show, the law era ended bro.

But if your walk is Jesus dependant, and resting in His imputed righteousness, that will never fail, because he can not fail, but you can.

There ya gooooo

Nothing in Gideon's post had anything to do with our willpower, nor our obedience.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Nothing in Gideon's post had anything to do with our willpower, nor our obedience.

what is the title of the thread?

 

[Frogster]

Nothing in Gideon's post had anything to do with our willpower, nor our obedience.

well, whose obedience is he talking about?

Besides, there is a connection with willpower, and law , and obedience anywhooooo

 

[StephanieSomer]

what is the title of the thread?

What's in the content of the OP?

 

[Always in His Presence]

What's in the content of the OP?

Obedience

Our obedience.

Exactly what you said it was not about.

 

[Svt4Him]

And I would heartfelt agree. How about these?

He gives the Holy Spirit to them that obey Him."

Or

"why do you call me Lord, Lord and not do the things I command you?"

Shall I add a handful more? Have we come to the point that we have come to the state where this is even questionable? But here we are non the less. I pray none seek to say that they understand grace better now and obedience was somehow done away with as to being an important part of our salvation. for Jesus made it as plain as He can.

You are my friends if you do whats over I command you."

Do we not see the obvious? Obedience is not optional. Bowing our knee and making Him Lord of our lives by necessity means surrender. We stop being our own Lord, and make Him who alone is worthy to be BOTH savior and Lord.

And if obedience is to be expected of us, do we not see that He knows the impossibility of our situation, for best intentions aside, we fail continually. There is an answer.... A miracle! God will inhabit us and cause us to waik in obedience to His inner whispers. That is how amazing grace really is.

Blessings,

Gideon

"Jesus wept."

"Go and do likewise."

 

[Sabertooth]

I believe that after being saved, God expects us to have an obedient heart. In order to be Savior, He must be acknowledged as Lord. But when we fail in that pursuit,

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1John 1:9

He gives us grace for our shortcomings, but, I believe that Salvation requires a pursuant heart on our part.

That contrast can be seen in the repentances of:

1. David, regarding Uriah & Bathsheeba; and
2. Ahab, regarding Naboth

Both were repentant, and forgiven, but only one continued to walk faithfully after God.

"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8 NIV

 

[Doctor Octavius]

So a new covenant was brought about. Grace. Now we have interpreted tthat to mean we try to obey, or perhaps we don't, but either way, grace assures us of salvation with obedience having NO bearing on our salvation. In other words under the new covenant, the things we want to do, we do not, and the things we do not want to do we do, but grace saves us anyway. But the above scripture clearly refutes this.

I think we ought to be careful in our language here. It is clear that justification has nothing whatever to do with our works.

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."
(Rom 4:5-8)

Paul emphasizes it repeatedly. The individual who "worketh not," that is, has no good works, is not performing deeds of righteousness, is not observing commands, "his faith is counted for righteousness" even in this where he possesses no merits to his name. Again, "God imputeth righteousness WITHOUT works," without doing anything good, or without regard for our merits or demerits, he gains the righteousness of God by faith. And even this faith itself is the gift of God.

If we say that salvation must be given, in any sense, as reward for our merits, we contradict these verses and the one that says:

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

You are correct, however, when you state that those who are saved by God are also those whom God works in "both to will and to do of His good pleasure." We who are justified are not left idle, but are obedient to God and His commands (though this not perfectly, as sin still lingers in our flesh).

It is strictly true that God is the author of salvation "for all those who obey Him," but God makes the unwilling willing, and the disobedient obedient, so we can say quite correctly to Paul "there is nothing that makes us differ to another except grace; there is no gift that we did not receive gratuitously" in answer to his question:

1Co_4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

“If Abraham was not justified by works, how was he justified? The apostle goes on to tell us how: What does scripture say? (that is, about how Abraham was justified). Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Rom. 4:3; Gen. 15:6). Abraham, then, was justified by faith. Paul and James do not contradict each other: good works follow justification.” (Augustine, Exposition 2 of Psalm 31, 2-4)

 

[FoundInGrace]

Well, I'm just gonna do my best and trust God with the rest
It may not be the way others would do it but it works for God and me.
God knows my heart.

 

[Biblicist]

No one verse is "taken at face value" as that's a very poor way to study the Bible.

There's certainly a lot (in fact a very lot) of truth with your statement; but there are those times when some verses are so pointed and unequivocal that they stand out on their own:

NASB 1 Corinthians 15:2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.​

along with...

NASB 1 Timothy 4:16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.​

 

[Sabertooth]

Well, I'm just gonna do my best and trust God with the rest
It may not be the way others would do it but it works for God and me.
God knows my heart.

Keith Green had a line in one of his songs:

"Just keep doing your best
And pray that it's blessed
And Jesus takes care of the rest..."

 

[FoundInGrace]

Keith Green had a line in one of his songs:

"Just keep doing your best
And pray that it's blessed
And Jesus takes care of the rest..."

Awesome thanks