Does the Bible say grace is without conditions?

[zoidar]

BTW ~ As for the pic of Jesus posted within this thread: Well, no offense, but Jesus is not white or European in appearance. Jesus was a Jew who was from the Middle East.

Granted, we should not be making or displaying any kind of images of our Savior's face at all. I believe that falls under the realm of idolatry to do so (according to Exodus 20:4-5).

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." (Exodus 20:4).

I made a thread were we can discuss this with images of Jesus. Welcome!

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/images-of-jesus-right-or-wrong.8071602/

 

[zoidar]

The Hebrew word for grace is "chên" in the OT, have you looked up how it's used? Does it come with conditions or not?

Why did Noah find grace in the eyes of God?

Genesis 6:8-9
Noah, however, found favor (chên) in the eyes of the Lord. These are the family records of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among his contemporaries?

How did Jacob try to get grace from his brother?

Genesis 33:8
So Esau said, “What do you mean by this whole procession I met?” “To find favor (chên) with you, my lord,” he (Jacob) answered.

Is grace in proverbs without conditions?

Proverbs 3:1-4
My son, do not forget my teaching, But let your heart keep my commandments; For length of days and years of life And peace they will add to you. Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart. So you will find favor (chên) and good repute In the sight of God and man.

And psalms?

Psalms 84:11
For the LORD God is a sun and shield; The LORD gives grace (chên) and glory; No good thing does He withhold from those who walk uprightly.

 

[Loren T.]

What you are quoting here are primarily OT passages. It seems to me that Jesus' sacrifice opened grace to all without conditions. However, we can accept or reject God's grace. I struggle with this because preachers will say God loves everyone unconditionally. And I think: True, but, God does not give everyone favor and certainly does not give salvation to everyone unconditionally. Paul says everyone is without excuse because God is revealed in nature. Think about that, even the beauty and order found in creation is grace. But, Jesus says he who seeks, finds, to him who knocks the door is opened. It doesn't just happen without our response. This, along with personal experience leads me to believe that the previant grace view is right and that grace is offered to all men without exception and that it puts one in a position to respond with either hardness of heart or openness to grace which then leads to God bestowing or withholding salvation.

 

[MartyF]

Hello,

One of the better examples of grace is the 32nd chapter of Genesis. We may not deserve God’s grace, but God still requires our submission just as with Jacob.

Marty

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James says, "God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

So the condition for us receiving grace is in being humble by living godly (according to the teachings of Jesus Christ within the New Testament Holy Scriptures).

God's grace also teaches us to deny ungodliness and to live righteously, too.

11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; " (Titus 2:11-12).

For Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your avatar is a work of art. I don't think you worship and burn incense on the high places.

I believe discerning believers know the difference between art and idol.

Some don't and I do agree if we adorn our homes and places of worship with images and create mini altars for them that is idolatry.

My reply is in post #44 within another thread titled: "Images of Jesus, right or wrong?"

 

[gideon123]

OP

I liked your example of the generous Boss. Lets go one step further. Imagine the Boss pays you $100 per week. But you messed up, and maybe you even stole money from the Boss. Then you come back, return the money you stole. And the Boss lets you keep your job, and he gives you the $10,000 bonus. NOW THAT'S GRACE!!!!

Its not complicated. Only people make it complicated.

Take a look at the parable of the fig tree in Luke. Jesus wants that fig tree to bear fruit. THATS our responsibility, after we are forgiven.

Blessings!!

 

[Blade]

No...I did, can do.. will do nothing that gets me gives me to receive this GRACE. NOT OF YOUR SELFS. We really need to get over this. Just receive it and move on. We were born into sin. That sin HAD a price. That we could never pay. So He did..God is faithful to what CHRIST HAS DONE. Not you not me. Get over it. And GRACE...wow where does it start and where does it end. What I mean is.. not talking JUST about sin. What did God tell Paul when he asked?

See its not I did a job for $100 and get paid $1000. Its I OWED my boss a dept I could NEVER pay. Christ walks up.. pays it.. and says.. your free. Yet. it was my BOSS that did it. Or as I see it.. if I had ANYTHING what so ever to do with this.. I just robbed Him of His glory. Now I am NOT free lol to do anything I wish.. get over that too.

 

[friend of]

this is a great topic, so if Grace is with out responsibility of our own part at all. God can give it to anyone he likes, such as a Muslim

I was found by those who weren't seeking me AND I will have mercy upon whom I choose
--the Lord

 

[zoidar]

I was found by those who weren't seeking me AND I will have mercy upon whom I choose
--the Lord

In Isaiah 65 which you are quoting we see the condition of grace again:
12 Because I called, but you did not answer; I spoke, but you did not hear.

God calls, but we have to respond. Since the Jews didn't respond to God, the grace went to the gentiles, for them to respond.

And the second qoute from Romans 9:15. God chose to not show the Pharaoh mercy, why? Pharaoh had his chance to respond to God, but the Pharaoh hardened his heart (Exodus 8:15, 8:32, 9:34)

Exodus 9:34 "But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants."

Proverbs 28:14
How blessed is the man who fears always, But he who hardens his heart will fall into calamity.

Hebrews 3:15
while it is said, “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”

 

[zoidar]

Deleted response!

 

[Saint Steven]

Grace, by definition, means without conditions.

What a great response! Thanks. I was wondering why I wasn't seeing that here.
Grace and self-effort are in contradiction.

There seems to be some confusion about
differentiating grace from the results.
As if the results constitute some conditions.

It is by grace we are saved (past tense) THIS IS NOT OF YOURSELVES...
it is the GIFT of God... (gifts are unconditional)
Why? So that NO ONE can boast... (that they have met the conditions)

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Well, I would say certainly not always, and if it is, it's always followed by conditions. We are to repent to receive God's grace. Grace it not something that we earn, but it's something given to us that is much, much bigger than we deserve. It's like I'm doing work for the boss, planting trees, and the salary for such a job is 100$ for a day. But when I go to pick up my daily salary, the boss gives me 10000$. That is grace, it has conditions, but much more has been poured out for us than we deserve. That is the mercy of God, we can't earn God's mercy, yet it has conditions, and it overflows.

Saul met Christ on the road to Damascus. It might at first have been grace without conditions, but what followed was a huge responsibitly. Paul was to take the gospel all over the world, and to stay in grace Paul had to be obedient to the mission Christ laid on him.

Acts 9:15-16
But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."

Faith by definition is unmerited which means we don't deserve it..... but that doens't mean we can just go about doing what we want. Romans 6:1-2 says shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid that we dead in sin live there in. This is my favorite passage however on grace
Titus 2:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Saint Steven]

How about some real Good News?

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not
credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but
trusts God who justifies the ungodly,
their faith is credited as righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually, grace does come with conditions. Not everyone is going to be saved.
Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and few be there that finds it.
Jesus did not have a problem with people who had placed little emphasis on sin.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees because they sinned (See Matthew 23:23).

Ephesians 2:8-9 is dealing with "Initial Salvation" and or "Ultimate Salvation." Ephesians 2:1 talks about how Christ has quickened us (Which is a one time act).

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;" (Ephesians 2:1).

Paul says in Ephesians 3:17,

"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,"

So is Paul talking about the Sanctification process or continued salvation?

No. He is talking about how Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith.

This is a one time event.

James says in James 2:24 that you are justified by works and not by faith alone.
James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

Can a dead faith save?
Surely not.

So Paul is saying we are not saved by Works Alone.
James is saying we are not saved by Faith Alone.
In other words, you need both faith and works as a part of the salvation process.

For if we are not saved by doing any kind of good works in any way whatsoever, that means we can be drunken axe murdering rapists and we can still be saved (despite being that way).

We are not saved in any way, shape, or form, by works. Ephesians 2:9 and Romans 4:5 and Galatians 2:16 are clear on that.

But if anyone is saved through the great and awesome love of God, they cannot help but fall in love with Jesus Christ and want to serve Him. Whoever is forgiven much, loves much (Luke 7:36-50). Real love is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). Thus anyone who has been forgiven through faith alone in Jesus Christ will exhibit works if given the opportunity. It is the work of faith and labour of love (1 Thessalonians 1:3). It is also the obedience of faith (Romans 16:26) and obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5). We obey Jesus' commandments because we love Him, having been forgiven of all our sins through His shed blood.

 

[justbyfaith]

As for conditions, with the heart we believe that God has raised Jesus from the dead, and this is unto righteousness. Then, with the mouth we confess the Lord Jesus, and this is unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10.

Hosea 14:2 is good too when considering conditions for salvation.

 

[zoidar]

Faith by definition is unmerited which means we don't deserve it..... but that doens't mean we can just go about doing what we want. Romans 6:1-2 says shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid that we dead in sin live there in. This is my favorite passage however on grace
Titus 2:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Have you looked at how the word "grace" is used in the OT?

I would say faith is unmerited, but has conditions, such as choice and repentance.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Have you looked at how the word "grace" is used in the OT?

I would say faith is unmerited, but has conditions, such as choice and repentance.

that’s what I’m saying. We choose to accept the free gift of salvation but it has conditions. The Bible talks about how one must be holy as well

 

[justbyfaith]

that’s what I’m saying. We choose to accept the free gift of salvation but it has conditions. The Bible talks about how one must be holy as well

Yes; specifically in Hebrews 12:14. kjv especially.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We are not saved in any way, shape, or form, by works. Ephesians 2:9 and Romans 4:5 and Galatians 2:16 are clear on that.

But if anyone is saved through the great and awesome love of God, they cannot help but fall in love with Jesus Christ and want to serve Him. Whoever is forgiven much, loves much (Luke 7:36-50). Real love is not in word or in tongue only, but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18). Thus anyone who has been forgiven through faith alone in Jesus Christ will exhibit works if given the opportunity. It is the work of faith and labour of love (1 Thessalonians 1:3). It is also the obedience of faith (Romans 16:26) and obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5). We obey Jesus' commandments because we love Him, having been forgiven of all our sins through His shed blood.

You are contradicting yourself. You say works of love will be the result. You say that the "anyone" cannot help but to fall in love with Jesus and to serve Him. So this fulfills the contradiction that a believer cannot live in excessively sinful life style with the thinking they are saved. Yet, you deny that works play a part in the salvation process. Yet, you said that works will always follow because they cannot help but to love and do good works of love. In other words, it sounds like you want to believe what I do, but you are simply not wanting to admit to the truth of such a thing.

For example: It would like a kid who had a bad experience with gasoline once. So now he will not admit that gasoline is an essential fuel source for an automobile to get from point A to point B. He will point to how it is the man who puts the gasoline in the car and it is not the gasoline itself that helps to cause the automobile to move. He could point to the engine and or the wheels. He could try and push the car himself and say that the car is moving even without the gasoline. Yet, he would be denying the truth that gasoline is a part of the engineering of that vehicle for that car to operate as it should.

I mean, I get it. I used to also believe that works did not save but they would always follow a true faith. But in time, I came to realize that this was a flawed position to have. Works are a necessary of one's faith and salvation because without them, James says we have a dead kind of faith (if we don't have works).

Let me just make this really simple for you.

Do you believe David was saved while he was committing his sins of adultery and murder? Yes, or no? If you say.... "yes" then what exactly is the warning in Jude 1:4 that says that there those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality all about then? Is it not possible for a person to hear a preacher talk about how David was saved while he committed murder lead some audience members of that church to think they can also be like a David and murder and still be saved, too?