Does perfect pre-knowledge imply hard determinism?

[BL2KTN]

Omniscience, by definition, means that God has perfect knowledge of all his future actions, including "changes of mind", whatever that may mean in the case of an omniscient being.

Whatever it means, it must be tiresome:

I [God] am weary of repenting. -- Jeremiah 15:6

TillICollapse has been right the whole time. If I know my own future, then I know my own decisions and cannot change them. Likewise if Yahweh knows its own future, then it knows its decisions and cannot change them. Otherwise neither of us know the future, we just know what it looks like given one set of decisions. Omniscience and omnipotence are self-cancelling.

 

[Albion]

Omniscience and omnipotence are self-cancelling.

Not so. Not any more than logical impossibilities would mean that God is not omnipotent. He cannot make a square circle, for instance, but only the most sophomoric among us would think that this means God's power is limited.

In the case of the future, God knows what will happen only to the extent that he knows what HE does and will do, so that in no way represents a limitation on his power. And it doesn't mean that he cannot change his policies, just that he will know in advance of it.

 

[BL2KTN]

If he knows what he does, and thus what he will do, what can He change?

 

[lesliedellow]

I [God] am weary of repenting. -- Jeremiah 15:6

The Bible is full of statements such as that, but it is speaking from a human perspective. lf (for example) God appears to change his mind in response to prayer, then, since all eternity:

a.) He has known that the prayer would be made (because he foreordained it), and

b.) He has known how he would respond to it (because that is part of his plan for his creation).

Omniscience and omnipotence are self-cancelling.

No they are not. God can accomplish whatever he wills.

 

[Albion]

If he knows what he does, and thus what he will do, what can He change?

There can be change of which he is aware, just as we see recorded in the Bible in a number of places. The fact that it is known in advance doesn't mean that he is not the author of that change.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

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Does perfect pre-knowledge imply
hard determinism?.
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If "perfect pre knowledge" means the most reasoned guesses that can be made, then no. That implies that the future hasn't happened.

If "perfect pre knowledge means knowing the future as if it were the past, then yes. If I know that a person does (not will) choose (A) instead of (B) sometime in the future, that choice is determined by the fact that it can be seen as having already occurred. We're basically performing a script that's already been written.

Now, as to the question of whether that makes us "robots" - how would we know one way or the other, without knowing if the future is already (to our point of view) set in stone? We wouldn't. We would act the same way either way. So if you find the idea distasteful, just remember that you might already be one and not know it.

 

[Resha Caner]

The one thing we can know for sure is that this question will be argued until the end of the world.

More interesting to me is how much the "strong" form must be weakened before opponents would accept it. Such as: God knows everything necessary to accomplishing His will.

It would seem those who argue for a strong form would agree something like this statement is true. And it seems likely those who oppose a strong form would agree something like this won't lead to logical impossibiltiies.

 

[BL2KTN]

There can be change of which he is aware, just as we see recorded in the Bible in a number of places. The fact that it is known in advance doesn't mean that he is not the author of that change.

So Yahweh changes?