Does morality exist without God?

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 6, 2011

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey my commandments."

...HEBREWS 10:16....
hebrews 8:10.

Eudaimonist · Jul 6, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
why are there a "WHITE LIE" and a "BLACK LIE" ??

In some situations a lie is bad, but in other situations it may be good or morally optional.

Consider:

You are in Nazi Germany. You are hiding Jews in your basement. Nazi soldiers have stopped by to ask if you've seen any Jews nearby.

Do you tell the truth, allowing the Jews to be taken to the death camps?

Or do you lie through your teeth, knowing that you have saved people from certain death?

eudaimonia,

Mark

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 6, 2011

IS sin a transgression of the LAW?

ADAM & EVE COMMITTED sin.. SO a LAW was established ?

NOAH PREACHED for many years to a sinful world because there was LAWLESSNESS on the whole earth ..
SO THEREFORE GOD cleansed the earth of evil with a FLOOD..

THE BIBLE group EXPLAIN thIS - ARE the 10 COMMANDMENTS "done away with" or abolished? ...did JESUS come to fulfill the LAW & PROPHETS or he came to destroy the LAW?? .. ...explain these texts : John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey my commandments." ..... HEBREWS 10:16 .... hebrews 8:10.

ToHoldNothing · Jul 6, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
we have a conscience

we have influences from within internally and without externally

Our having a conscience doesn't require a God to explain it. Psychology itself seems sufficient enough in terms of explaining our natural tendencies to be moral when presented with adequate evidence as to why we should behave that way.

jayem · Jul 6, 2011

Skeptic90 said:
Christians,

Would you agree with most theists that the punishment for sin is hell, and the reward for a good life is heaven?

I'm not a Christian, but strictly speaking, the Christian party line is that hell is the punishment for unforgiven sin. And we are all sinners. But heaven is the reward for those who's sins are forgiven. And the ONLY path to forgiveness is acceptance of Jesus as savior, repentence for past sins, and trying to live by Jesus's example. (Note the exclusivity.) Just living a good life supposedly won't get one into paradise. Now where the doctrine runs into trouble is the claim that once one has accepted Jesus, a virtuous life will result, as a demonstration of one's conversion. So any failure to lead a good life can be interpreted as a failure to truly follow Jesus. The argument kinda devolves into circularity. In my experience, Christians are pretty much the same in their behavior as everyone else. As Bertrand Russell said, if Christianity is supposed to make men moral, I haven't noticed it.

FrenchyBearpaw · Jul 6, 2011

jayem said:
I'm not a Christian, but strictly speaking, the Christian party line is that hell is the punishment for unforgiven sin. And we are all sinners. But heaven is the reward for those who's sins are forgiven. And the ONLY path to forgiveness is acceptance of Jesus as savior, repentence for past sins, and trying to live by Jesus's example. (Note the exclusivity.) Just living a good life supposedly won't get one into paradise. Now where the doctrine runs into trouble is the claim that once one has accepted Jesus, a virtuous life will result, as a demonstration of one's conversion. So any failure to lead a good life can be interpreted as a failure to truly follow Jesus. The argument kinda devolves into circularity. In my experience, Christians are pretty much the same in their behavior as everyone else. As Bertrand Russell said, if Christianity is supposed to make men moral, I haven't noticed it.

Furthermore, I find the moral teachings of Jesus unoriginal, and his original teachings immoral.

quatona · Jul 6, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
two wrongs dont make a right..

why two negatives make a positive in math?

Because right vs. wrong and negative vs. positive in math are two completely distinct issues.

MoonLancer · Jul 6, 2011

Cyrax said:
Is everyone into anime but me? Hmmm.

my avatar was made with a program built into the christian forums. It no longer functions to my knowledge. You can blame them for the style

Anyway your post really didn't address mine even though you quoted me.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 8, 2011

its because of users like u which caused my topic to close

off topic n random n "not typed anything approach"

hm hm ... is it wrong or right to post on a topic whatever you want ?

no

MoonLancer said:
my avatar was made with a program built into the christian forums. It no longer functions to my knowledge. You can blame them for the style

Anyway your post really didn't address mine even though you quoted me.

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 8, 2011

what is your definition of LAWLESSNESS??

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 8, 2011

I have noticed that businesses post ethical pictures and items which promote or endorse positivity in the workplace..

So A BIBLE is not acceptable ... but posters and verbal murals and etc.. have varied religious innuedoes / hidden messages in context.. hm hm

THEREFORE ARE double standards

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Jul 11, 2011

WOULD you support mrs anthony for killing her daughter ..?

how could the jury be influenced by a fictional show such as CSI ?

Phred · Jul 11, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
Does morality exist without God? Why would it?
OR/
Why would it not?

Morality is a concept entirely dependent upon man. And it's dependent upon where the man is and when.

God is a concept entirely dependent upon man. And it's dependent upon where the man is and when.

If God existed morality would be universal. Mankind would agree upon all things that are right and wrong. Because this god would have "written" those things into our minds. Like programming. Instinct. Yet, there is no universal morality. Everything is contextual.

Frankly, as in on the first page, if you folks really believed that an abortion clinic was killing babies you'd storm the place and kill the people inside. If I thought there was a building that was killing babies I'd get my friends together if I could but even if I couldn't I'd bust down the door and put them out of business. Nobody can be allowed to kill babies. It shows you don't really believe that babies are being killed. It's an appeal to emotion against a practice you don't like but that doesn't rise to the level of "killing babies". In other words, you're lying. If you're not then you're passively sitting by while murder is taking place. Either one is horrible according to the morality you preach.

So which are you guilty of? Lying or standing by and watching murder?

Thobewill · Jul 11, 2011

Question for christians. Do you accept the other parts of the Bible's good and bad (murder, rape, sexual slavery, sacrifice, misogyny, and genocide, and death penalty for working on the sabbath, etc.) as part of your morality?

If so, why?

If not, on what basis do you pick and choose what to take in the Bible as a source of morality? Do you disregard the more disagreeable parts because they are wrong? On what do you base this, if not the Bible. Is it because you, as a human have a *gasp* innate sense of morality?

Antarctika · Jul 12, 2011

Obviously morality exists without God.

God is an answer to the problematics of causality, it has nothing to do with morality in the first place. Rather, religions (most of the ones i know,at least), bring in the notion of morality as part of their cultural embedding around God, which I think is a good thing by the way.

Deaver · Jul 13, 2011

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
Does morality exist without God? Why would it?
OR/
Why would it not?
There is secular morality and there is God's morality.

Without God how do you explain morality other than it must have originated within man. But this presents a problem because man is viewed as little more than the last animal produced by the long, meandering, and chance process of evolution. An animal is not plagued by guilt after killing another animal. A dog does not experience remorse after stealing a bone from another dog. Yet man, who also is supposed to have evolved, feels both guilt and remorse when he commits certain acts that violate accepted standards of morality and ethics. Again, In the beginning, God,

Vasallus said:
I would say nothing exists without God.

Deaver · Jul 13, 2011

Thobewill said:
Question for christians. Do you accept the other parts of the Bible's good and bad (murder, rape, sexual slavery, sacrifice, misogyny, and genocide, and death penalty for working on the sabbath, etc.) as part of your morality?

If so, why?

If not, on what basis do you pick and choose what to take in the Bible as a source of morality? Do you disregard the more disagreeable parts because they are wrong? On what do you base this, if not the Bible. Is it because you, as a human have a *gasp* innate sense of morality?

I think the following article responds to your question very well.

Apologetics Press - Did God Order the Killing of Babies?

Deaver · Jul 13, 2011

Antarctika said:
Obviously morality exists without God.

God is an answer to the problematics of causality, it has nothing to do with morality in the first place. Rather, religions (most of the ones i know,at least), bring in the notion of morality as part of their cultural embedding around God, which I think is a good thing by the way.

Despite their opposing philosophical/theological orientations, both theists and atheists agree that some things are good or right, while other things are evil or wrong.

The sense of moral obligation unique to the human species and is a powerful argument for the existence of the personal God of the Bible that created human beings in His own image (Genesis 1:26-27). And, practically speaking, without such a standard the lines between right and wrong not only are blurred, but actually fade into non-existence. In the final analysis, the atheistic attempt to erect a moral superstructure apart from the existence of a personal God will suffer the same fate as a house built on sandinevitably it will collapse.

Daniel25 · Jul 13, 2011

i have only a trace of respect for egoist atheists. The rest either are slaves to society or biology, and neither diserve attention.

although, i suppose in a way the same could be said of the egoists.

The Nihilist · Jul 13, 2011

Daniel25 said:
i have only a trace of respect for egoist atheists. The rest either are slaves to society or biology

In what way?

Does morality exist without God?

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