Does morality exist without God?

[Upisoft]

In short--people do approach the Bible with pre-conceived ideas that, say, fidelity is good and love is good, and mass slaughter is usually bad...but they often don't realize they are doing that. They stay blind to the parts of the Bible that say God helps you slaughter babies, only notice the parts where God fits their preconceived ideas about what is good, and then turn it around and think that they are forming those ideas about what is good by extrapolating them from what they see in the Bible.

Most certainly this is the case. Most of the Christians are quite nice people. But when you take a side and choose the book over your inner morality, you usually get hateful people. Like say those guys at WBC.

The same can be said about Islam. I know many people that are example for human being and they are Muslim. And on the other end of the spectrum you get suicide bombers.

Edit: I was still thinking about these problems and it occurred to me that if God exists, a believer should look at the Bible as a grown man looks at a first grade textbook. It was something to start your journey, not alpha and omega. You better then live your life as your relationship with God is suggesting you, not how your probably distorted interpretation of a book suggests.

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

Take responsibility for your actions

 

[Daniel25]

not as it is commonly understood to mean, and not in an interesting way.

 

[sandwiches]

not as it is commonly understood to mean, and not in an interesting way.

Sure it does, testably so in tribes without superstitions.

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

why u typed that

Sure it does, testably so in tribes without superstitions.

 

[sandwiches]

why u typed that

Well, because tribes without superstitions or a belief or even idea of a god still have morality.

 

[david_x]

Well, because tribes without superstitions or a belief or even idea of a god still have morality.

What tribe didn't have some sort of god?

 

[sandwiches]

What tribe didn't have some sort of god?

The Pirahã come to mind.

 

[Upisoft]

The Pirahã come to mind.

That is not true tribe then.

 

[david_x]

The Pirahã come to mind.

...they may not worship it but this still sounds like something supernatural to me.

However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people.[11] Everett reported one incident where the Pirahã said that “Xigagaí, one of the beings that lives above the clouds, was standing on a beach yelling at us, telling us that he would kill us if we go into the jungle.” Everett and his daughter could see nothing and yet the Pirahã insisted that Xigagaí was still on the beach.

 

[badtim]

...they may not worship it but this still sounds like something supernatural to me.

not if you ask the piraha. it's just nature to them, and concrete experience, regardless of Everett's inability to see them. and they don't worship them or give offerings either, nor do they have any sort of shaman-equivalents.

then again i'm not totally convinced that Everett is all on the up-and-up.

 

[Eudaimonist]

then again i'm not totally convinced that Everett is all on the up-and-up.

Isn't it clear? The reason that Everett didn't see that entity on the beach is that... Everett is Xigagaí!

Roll 1d6 sanity loss.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[david_x]

not if you ask the piraha. it's just nature to them, and concrete experience, regardless of Everett's inability to see them. and they don't worship them or give offerings either, nor do they have any sort of shaman-equivalents.

then again i'm not totally convinced that Everett is all on the up-and-up.

What do you think it is to Christians, if not nature? What I mean is that we are the same, of course.

 

[badtim]

What do you think it is to Christians, if not nature? What I mean is that we are the same, of course.

haha really?

...they may not worship it but this still sounds like something supernatural to me.

you seem to think it's "supernatural" yourself. and plus, there's no monolithic "christian" viewpoint on supernatural entities anyway -- and even those sects that do go on about that stuff have a remarkably impoverished system of dealing with the supernatural, when compared to almost any other religious tradition.

go read Everett's ethnologies on the Piraha. they aren't even close to how any western culture works cognitively. even christian sects that howl about demons all day long are nothing close to the way they work.

 

[Eudaimonist]

go read Everett's ethnologies on the Piraha.

I hadn't heard of them before, but they are very interesting! They seem to have a kind of tribal anarchistic libertarian social arrangement, with skepticism and atheism to boot!


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[sandwiches]

...they may not worship it but this still sounds like something supernatural to me.

Actually, you're partly right and I was partly wrong. They do seem to have some superstitions but I maintain that the idea of a god as we understand it doesn't seem to exist for them.

 

[badtim]

this is a good thing to watch: FORA.tv - Daniel Everett: Endangered Languages

but yeah, they are super-strict empiricists, lacking any sort of history longer than 1-2 generations. and so far, completely immune to the fundies trying to missionize (is that even a word? ) them. in fact, they deconverted Everett himself. the linguistic aspects, as concerning chomskyan linguistic theory, are interesting; my main problem being zero to little corroboration of Everett's work.

btw

Roll 1d6 sanity loss.

*casts Ylemen's Puissant Reflection*

*runs away and hopes there ain't no Shoggoths in the bushes*

 

[david_x]

haha really?



you seem to think it's "supernatural" yourself. and plus, there's no monolithic "christian" viewpoint on supernatural entities anyway -- and even those sects that do go on about that stuff have a remarkably impoverished system of dealing with the supernatural, when compared to almost any other religious tradition.

go read Everett's ethnologies on the Piraha. they aren't even close to how any western culture works cognitively. even christian sects that howl about demons all day long are nothing close to the way they work.

One of the great things about being Christian is that we are not homogeneous. And if i was not in daily conversation with the supernatural I would be more inclined to believe you.

 

[david_x]

Actually, you're partly right and I was partly wrong. They do seem to have some superstitions but I maintain that the idea of a god as we understand it doesn't seem to exist for them.

It's an immature system, described by C.S.Lewis. They have yet to jump from realizing that these spirits exist to the fact that they should be worshiped/ are powerful.

 

[badtim]

And if i was not in daily conversation with the supernatural I would be more inclined to believe you.

this, i gotta hear.