Does morality exist without God?

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

Why would it?
OR/
Why would it not?
There is secular morality and there is God's morality.
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 56: 8-9


we can treat people who we can see with respect n treat GOD with disarray and

how can we treat each other with no love whom we see daily but loves GOD whom we can not

vice versa ,,,...

 

[Tinker Grey]

Since God doesn't exist and morality does, the answer is obvious!

Now that that's out of the way. If you are a Christian then I'd advise reading Romans 2 and accepting that Paul believed that God has written the law on ALL our hearts.

So the question remains is HOW does morality come from God or how does morality exist if God does not.

Take your pick

 

[Ken-1122]

I think the various answers will depend on who you ask. Those who don’t believe in God will say morality exists, God doesn’t, those who do believe in God will say nothing will exist without God; morality included

Ken
PS what do you say? Why?

 

[Zebra1552]

While I do affirm that nothing exists without God, this raises more questions than it solves. But for you atheists, let me ask you this: Christianity's biggest affirmation is of love for others, love for God, and treating both right. Even if God didn't exist, what would you lose by seeking improvement in how people treat each other?

 

[SithDoughnut]

While I do affirm that nothing exists without God, this raises more questions than it solves. But for you atheists, let me ask you this: Christianity's biggest affirmation is of love for others, love for God, and treating both right. Even if God didn't exist, what would you lose by seeking improvement in how people treat each other?

We'd actually gain a lot. That's why most of us do it.

EDIT: As for the OP, morality exists whether God does or not. It's not an independent entity, it exists in each person's mind. And God's, if he exists. Then it's just a question of which subjective morality you feel you should follow - your own subjective morality, someone else's subjective morality, or God's subjective morality.

 

[Tinker Grey]

what would you lose by seeking improvement in how people treat each other?

I don't understand the question. Do you think atheists don't seek improvement in how people treat each other?

 

[Zebra1552]

I don't understand the question. Do you think atheists don't seek improvement in how people treat each other?

Hardly. I do believe that Christianity does quite a bit to further this cause, however, and I fail to understand why many atheists- not all, mind you- are so hostile to religion in general and specifically Christianity. There is a certain professor on my campus that comes to mind, or Dawkins, or Pullman.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Hardly. I do believe that Christianity does quite a bit to further this cause, however, and I fail to understand why many atheists- not all, mind you- are so hostile to religion in general and specifically Christianity. There is a certain professor on my campus that comes to mind, or Dawkins, or Pullman.

Because they believe that religion is a source of more problems than benefits. The 'especially Christianity' part only comes in because Christianity happens to be the most common religion in the West.

 

[variant]

Hardly. I do believe that Christianity does quite a bit to further this cause,

If the primary focus of religion was to promote actual tangible helpful morality then very few Atheists would oppose it at all.

 

[lawtonfogle]

If the primary focus of religion was to promote actual tangible helpful morality then very few Atheists would oppose it at all.

Gotta disagree here. Atheist disagree with religion because of the religious, not because of the religion. Kinda the same problem Gandhi had with Christianity.

 

[SithDoughnut]

Gotta disagree here. Atheist disagree with religion because of the religious, not because of the religion. Kinda the same problem Gandhi had with Christianity.

Actually, if we take Christianity as purely the relationship it is often claimed to be, there's no moral guidance there at all. The whole side of Christianity that contains the morals is often denounced by Christians as unnecessary religion.

 

[Blayz]

Does God exist without morality?

 

[badtim]

Hardly. I do believe that Christianity does quite a bit to further this cause, however, and I fail to understand why many atheists- not all, mind you- are so hostile to religion in general and specifically Christianity. There is a certain professor on my campus that comes to mind, or Dawkins, or Pullman.

easy answer. you're in the united states; christianity is the dominant religious paradigm.

historically, i would rate christianity as ineffective at reducing suffering in the world, or engendering "good" acts.

 

[variant]

Gotta disagree here. Atheist disagree with religion because of the religious, not because of the religion. Kinda the same problem Gandhi had with Christianity.

I'm not sure you are disagreeing with me.

I mean to say that if all religion did was produce nicer more helpful and productive people then Atheism would just be us thinking you guys were full of it but also mainly harmless.

 

[Zebra1552]

easy answer. you're in the united states; christianity is the dominant religious paradigm.

historically, i would rate christianity as ineffective at reducing suffering in the world, or engendering "good" acts.

So Christianity, then, is judged by its adherents and not by its followers? Then I have news for atheists: Some of the most vile creatures on the face of this planet were atheists. You still want to use that equivalence?

 

[Eudaimonist]

Why would it?

Morality would exist because human beings need a code of values to survive, to flourish, and to participate in society.

There is secular morality and there is God's morality.

No, there are secular moralities, and there are religious moralities. Plural for both.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[SithDoughnut]

So Christianity, then, is judged by its adherents and not by its followers? Then I have news for atheists: Some of the most vile creatures on the face of this planet were atheists. You still want to use that equivalence?

Some of the most vile creatures were Christians. Some were Muslims. Some were black, some were white. You name any group and there'll be several vile people in there somewhere.

The important thing to remember is that if you just a group by it's members, you include all of the members, not just the ones that work with a confirmation bias. Then you realise that generally, people are all right. Christianity, as a group, is all right.

If I was going to put forward any difference at all, it would be that the vile atheists did not act in the name of atheism, but in the name of power. Many Christians, however, have committed awful deeds in the name of their belief.

 

[Skavau]

While I do affirm that nothing exists without God, this raises more questions than it solves. But for you atheists, let me ask you this: Christianity's biggest affirmation is of love for others, love for God, and treating both right. Even if God didn't exist, what would you lose by seeking improvement in how people treat each other?

Nothing, of course. But then I have never personally observed an atheist ever contend that we shouldn't work on improving how people treat each other. I would also disagree on the point that Christianity's biggest affirmation is of love for others. Christianity's biggest affirmation is its claim of our incapability to live up to God's standards and its insistence that we repent of our own inherent self-failure and live a life of persistent obedience and adulation towards God. Take those two themes away (which are prevailing) from any moral claim invoked by any devoted Christian and you simply have humanism.

Hardly. I do believe that Christianity does quite a bit to further this cause, however, and I fail to understand why many atheists- not all, mind you- are so hostile to religion in general and specifically Christianity. There is a certain professor on my campus that comes to mind, or Dawkins, or Pullman.

First of all, most atheists are apathetic towards religion. I would suspect at least 10-15% of the North American population at minimum are atheistic, or in general non-religious. This number easily doubles in Europe with some countries clocking in at majority non-religious. Most of these people have no interest in religion, and so - don't show their faces on religious or philosophical debate communities on the internet. The others of course, come from a religious backgrounds and have 'broken' or 'rebelled' against it. They are naturally going to be against it - and given that in the western world, Christianity is the most dominant religion - it is going to receive the most criticism.

So Christianity, then, is judged by its adherents and not by its followers? Then I have news for atheists: Some of the most vile creatures on the face of this planet were atheists. You still want to use that equivalence?

And some of the most vile on this planet were theists. Atheism does not describe an ideology, it only describes an absence. You cannot derive anything about atheism by how one person behaves. All you can point to is that they lack a belief in a God. With Christianity, it is not like that. Christianity is a specific belief system which makes both moral and metaphysical claims. Its adherents claim to be literally be on the side of God and claim to be following the rules of God. Even without analyzing a bible, one can merely note the history of Christianity and observe a lot of Christian thought now to note that Christianity indeed does have an issue with homosexuality.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Even if God didn't exist, what would you lose by seeking improvement in how people treat each other?

I do seek this, and in principle I have plenty to lose. I could lose my life at this task.

Also, and even more importantly, I seek improvement in how people treat themselves. This is where all further moral progress begins.

Be the change you want to see in the world -- Gandhi


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

Hardly. I do believe that Christianity does quite a bit to further this cause, however, and I fail to understand why many atheists- not all, mind you- are so hostile to religion in general and specifically Christianity.

Possibly because they think Christianity is immoral?