Does Modern Science Align with the Bible?

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
There's nothing to address here why? Because the high altitude balloons in the videos I shared show the earth has no curvature: means that on land and sea there is none either. Therefore whatever the valid explanation should be I couldn't tell you because I'm no scientist. You can't argue against +109,000 Feet of altitude in the air....which is plenty enough birds eye view...and note carefully that the videos I shared were from pro-globers which means I'm not being biased.

Here’s another hole in your lie. You claim that neither of these show a curved earth and you even admit that the second video is using a fish eye lens but both of them are using a fish eye lens and both are showing a curvature of the earth. So you haven’t proved anything by posting these videos because they both show a curved earth because they are both using a fish eye lens.

here’s pics from the first video showing both concave and convex curves.

Here’s pics from the second video showing both concave and convex curves.

Humble Penny said:
It's clear from both videos that we don't live on a spinning ball. The second video is clearly using a fish-eye lens as you can see the horizon going from flat to concave, and from flat to convex multiple times.

So again your dishonesty has been exposed.

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
I'm confused by your water leveling argument...are you attempting to argue for or against a globe earth?

It conforms to the surface of the planet which is why we have a horizon on the water. Don’t pretend you don’t know this.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

BNR32FAN said:
Here’s another hole in your lie. You claim that neither of these show a curved earth and you even admit that the second video is using a fish eye lens but both of them are using a fish eye lens and both are showing a curvature of the earth. So you haven’t proved anything by posting these videos because they both show a curved earth because they are both using a fish eye lens.

here’s pics from the first video showing both concave and convex curves.
View attachment 322786
View attachment 322787
View attachment 322788

Here’s pics from the second video showing both concave and convex curves.

View attachment 322793
View attachment 322792
View attachment 322791
View attachment 322790
View attachment 322789

So again your dishonesty has been exposed.

I think you should recheck your understanding of the difference between concave and convex...spheres are clearly convex like a basketball or soccer ball or tennis ball which curve outward; and concave shapes on the other hand like an hour glass curve inward: by these definitions we shouldn't see both convex and concave shapes.

If anything you've helped prove the dishonesty of globe theory. Yet the other pictures you've helpfully included also show a straight horizon...which is proof of a fish-eye lens being used that would produce all three occurrences in one video.

BNR32FAN said:
It conforms to the surface of the planet which is why we have a horizon on the water. Don’t pretend you don’t know this.

If you fill up a spherical fish tank you'll notice that the water never wraps around the glass but forms a straight line once it has settled: this simple observation shows this can only be accomplished on a plane level surface. Sadly we've never been able to see water wrap around and stick to the outside of any spherical body...calls gravity into question...Or whatever science wants to name this force.

Lulav · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
With this said let's look at the claim in modern science that it seven days of the week are determined by the rotation of the moon around the earth, is this true according to God?

when Joshua was at war with the Amorites we read this:

"Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the sons of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, 'O sun, stand still at Gibeon, And O moon in the valley of Aijalon. So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation avenged themselves of their enemies.' Is it not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stopped in the middle of the sky and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. There was no day like that before it or after it, when the Lord listened to the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel."
Joshua 10:12‭-‬14 NASB1995 (emphasis added mine)

How does Jasher read?

"And when they were smiting, the day was declining toward evening, and Joshua said in the sight of all the people, 'Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon, and thou moon in the valley of Ajalon, until the nation shall have revenged itself upon its enemies.'
And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Joshua, and the sun stood still in the midst of the heavens, and it stood still six and thirty moments, and the moon also stood still and hastened not to go down a whole day.
And there was no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened to the voice of a man, for the Lord fought for Israel."
Jasher 88:63-65 (emphasis added mine)

It's clear from Moses and the Prophets that the Sun moves around the earth.

To picture this I made a little map so we could see where these towns were located and what the position they (sun and moon) would be in.

Which brings up the question of if the Sun is to rule the day and the moon to rule the night how is it that some days when the sun is up the moon is also?

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

Lulav said:
View attachment 322795
To picture this I made a little map so we could see where these towns were located and what the position they (sun and moon) would be in.

Which brings up the question of if the Sun is to rule the day and the moon to rule the night how is it that some days when the sun is up the moon is also?

The key phrase here is, "[...] some days when the sun is up the moon is also?" We can infer three things from this dear sister:

Since the Moon appears with the sun during the day on certain periods of the year: it follows that because it doesn't do so everyday that the Sun indeed rules over the day since it consistently comes out every day of the year. This would also confirm the Sun to be the greater of the two great lights God made.
This is to indicate that the Moon indeed wanders from it's course and would be why it completes the year too soon in 354 Days instead of the 360 Days like the Sun and stars.
Since we don't see the Sun out at night it is clear that it only rules over the day while the Moon rules over the night.

One thing I haven't taken the time to confirm is if the Moon only appears with the sun ten days out of the year. If this is true then it would we explain inference #2, bit if not then there must be some other mechanism going on that has yet to be understood and explained.

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
I think you should recheck your understanding of the difference between concave and convex...spheres are clearly convex like a basketball or soccer ball or tennis ball which curve outward; and concave shapes on the other hand like an hour glass curve inward: by these definitions we shouldn't see both convex and concave shapes.

But the pictures I provided do in fact show both concave and convex which means that a fish eye lens was used in both videos.

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
If anything you've helped prove the dishonesty of globe theory. Yet the other pictures you've helpfully included also show a straight horizon...which is proof of a fish-eye lens being used that would produce all three occurrences in one video.

There’s nothing dishonest about using a fish eye lens, neither of those videos were claiming to prove that the earth is a globe. That wasn’t the purpose of those videos.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

BNR32FAN said:
But the pictures I provided do in fact show both concave and convex which means that a fish eye lens was used in both videos.

BNR32FAN said:
There’s nothing dishonest about using a fish eye lens, neither of those videos were claiming to prove that the earth is a globe. That wasn’t the purpose of those videos.

Okay so you're actually giving more credence to a plane earth than a globe earth. I've already stated that a fish-eye lens was used to give the appearance of a convex globe earth: the use of such a device shows and exposes the dishonesty of the globe theory because if the earth is truly a globe then you wouldn't need to use such a lens to support your case.

And it's clear you're failing to look at the videos and screenshots you took carefully because the earth should only concave at the bottom of the sphere and not the top or sides. Instead the concave views we see are of the black sky above the earth.

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
If you fill up a spherical fish tank you'll notice that the water never wraps around the glass but forms a straight line once it has settled: this simple observation shows this can only be accomplished on a plane level surface. Sadly we've never been able to see water wrap around and stick to the outside of any spherical body...calls gravity into question...Or whatever science wants to name this force.

Wrong because we see water all the way around the earth. The reason water will not stick to the outside of a sphere on earth is because gravity is pulling towards the center of the earth and not the center of the spherical object your trying to pour water on. It’s equivalent to trying to pour steel bbs onto a sphere in space while having a large magnet underneath the sphere. The steel bbs will attract to the magnet not the sphere, but now if you put that magnet in the center of the sphere the bbs will attach to the sphere on all sides and try to get as close to the magnet as they possible can, hence leveling out conforming to the shape of the sphere as much as possible. While this might not be elementary science it is middle school science. Definitely pre high school.

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
Okay so you're actually giving more credence to a plane earth than a globe earth. I've already stated that a fish-eye lens was used to give the appearance of a convex globe earth: the use of such a device shows and exposes the dishonesty of the globe theory because if the earth is truly a globe then you wouldn't need to use such a lens to support your case.

Those videos were not taken to prove that the earth is a sphere. The first was a high altitude experiment the second was a weather ballon.

Humble Penny said:
And it's clear you're failing to look at the videos and screenshots you took carefully because the earth should only concave at the bottom of the sphere and not the top or sides. Instead the concave views we see are of the black sky above the earth.

Wrong again concave is curved like the INSIDE of a sphere and a fish eye lens when a line is above the middle of the lens distorts the image to make it appear concave, when the line is below the middle of the lens it makes it appear convex like the outside of a sphere.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

BNR32FAN said:
Wrong because we see water all the way around the earth. The reason water will not stick to the outside of a sphere on earth is because gravity is pulling towards the center of the earth and not the center of the spherical object your trying to pour water on. It’s equivalent to trying to pour steel bbs onto a sphere in space while having a large magnet underneath the sphere. The steel bbs will attract to the magnet not the sphere, but now if you put that magnet in the center of the sphere the bbs will attach to the sphere on all sides and try to get as close to the magnet as they possible can, hence leveling out conforming to the shape of the sphere as much as possible. While this might not be elementary science it is middle school science. Definitely pre high school.

So now you've conceded to the fact that the water is inside the sphere, yet you have failed to demonstrate how gravity keeps the water in the neat shape of a sphere while performing all.of the supposed motions in a globe earth model. At the same time you've now contradicted yourself because you first admitted that water always finds it's level, and now you say water will confirm to the shape of a sphere as much as possible...

So does water level or form the shape of a sphere? With every CGI image of the globe earth the water is never level. If however you look at the videos I provided the water always remains level as it is clear to the observer that it's stop a plane surface.

An additional counter to the globe earth claim is the way the observer views the horizon when ascending. If the earth were truly a globe then the horizon should stay in place and the observer would have to look down to see it. However in numberous videos of high altitude balloons and our own experiences in airplanes will show: the horizon always moves relative to the observers position.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

BNR32FAN said:
Those videos were not taken to prove that the earth is a sphere. The first was a high altitude experiment the second was a weather ballon.

Wrong again concave is curved like the INSIDE of a sphere and a fish eye lens when a line is above the middle of the lens distorts the image to make it appear concave, when the line is below the middle of the lens it makes it appear convex like the outside of a sphere.

I wonder if you know the definitions for wise and ignorant? Or do you mix those up as well?

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

@BNR32FAN You do understand that fish-eye lenses make any straight line curve upward or downwards when not facing it head on right? Look the way to refute me and any person who believes in a plane earth is just to provide simple live non-cgi unedited video footage of a globe earth and the argument ends.

However we know this isn't possible because NASA has failed to provide the this simple evidence.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

Lulav said:
And that might be why on the biblical calendar concerning the moedim, the appointed dates with our Creator they only include seven months and those seven months starts when HE says they start; this I believe keeps his calendar in order. He determines this by two things, (two witnesses) and those are the heavens and the earth.

The Heavens because it needs to be a new moon (not a dark moon but the first sliver)
The Earth by the growing of the barley at a certain stage.
Aviv, the first month means 'green ear' and speaks of the barley which is needed for the very first fruits to be ripened.
Just like the Father determines when Yeshua Ha Moschiah returns, he determined when he came the first time.
As I've said before about him being born on the First day of the First month.

This part I won't respond to here because it's related to another thread you posted that's outside the scope of my OP here.

Lulav said:
I was not saying there aren't a full year of months, ,my point was that to keep things as best in line with the L-RD He decided how to keep yearly time.
Calendars have been messed up and messed with to keep us from being in sync with our Heavenly Father.

There's been days and even months added, lost years, predetermined cyclic calendars, and more.

He arranged the sun and moon and stars and 'planets' (wandering stars) as an elaborate timepiece. However he was also aware of the deception that could take place by man (falsely deceived) to change things.

Even in heaven there is a timepiece as we can see in Job.
But even though the appointed times don't change, when they start is left up to him to decide. Doesn't mean man has followed it.

We must have things in sync on earth as it is in heaven.

That's why it's important to not follow the 'science' which misleads us in keeping on the right schedule with the LORD. That tells me one thing, that it's very important to follow the start point as he ordained it. Once you have that proper date you will be lined up.

The adversary knows how important it is to be in sync with the L-RD's timepiece thus he has been forever trying different things to get us off track

The thing is sister that God started this clock way back on Day 4 of creation, and it's been running fine since then. The problem is that man had stayed in so many different directions that brings about the confusion: yet the cycles of days and night still come and go on schedule like YHWH programmed them to. This is why in another thread I claim that Chronology is the foundation of astronomy because it shows us to correctly pinpoint when certain luminary activity should occur. But again this is for another topic of discussion.

Lulav said:
This part of your post I'm having trouble with:

"I don't follow a lunar calendar I will say that if what you say is true then how do you explain Genesis 1:14-19 where it's clear God created the moon full?"

How do you get from the work on the 4th day that it was created full? It's not clear to me, please explain. Or what I said was true, what part of what I said.?

When you consider the words of Moses starting that God made two great lights we must ask ourselves, "What phase of the Moon clearly displays her glorious beauty?" The only answer would be her full moon phase. Therefore if what you claimed about the new moon (i.e. first sliver crescent) being the phase the Moon began on creation, then it wouldn't line up with Genesis 1:14-19 for the reason I started above about the moon being made full.

dani'el · Nov 7, 2022

This is getting ridiculous, and is easily settled.

Holding as close to the Equator as possible:
-- If I am in Ecuador and I want to go to say Kenya, I could get there flying either east or west.
--If I fly say east from Columbia and just keep going, I will eventually get back to, you guessed it, Columbia.
Only works if the earth is a sphere.

Spacecraft -unless you believe they never actually made it to space and the photos are just an elaborate hoax- but they can circumnavigate the earth and, yes take pictures of the curvature of the earth at many different points. And their orbit brings them back to the same places over and over again.

Ships have circumnavigated the earth now for many years, albeit by far less direct routes. Again, only works for a globe.

And instead of self leveling, let's look at water from the standpoint of taking the shape of its container. So inside a clear glass jar filled with water we have a very wet clear jar shape. On a very large ball with gravitational pull we have oceans conforming to the shape of the earth and giving us a horizon. Couldn't happen if we were flat.

There is some "squishing" of the ball due to its' rotation. The latitudinal circumference at the equator is 24,901 mi/40,075 km, but longitudinally measured around the poles it is just 24,859 mi/40,007 km.

If you doubt me, remember, I've been to the mountain ...

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

Humble Penny said:
View attachment 322801 View attachment 322802

I wonder if you know the definitions for wise and ignorant? Or do you mix those up as well?

BNR32FAN said:
concave is curved like the INSIDE of a sphere

BNR32FAN said:
convex like the outside of a sphere.

Your screenshot of convex says “curved like a circle or sphere when viewed from OUTSIDE.

BNR32FAN · Nov 7, 2022

dani'el said:
This is getting ridiculous, and is easily settled.

Holding as close to the Equator as possible:
-- If I am in Ecuador and I want to go to say Kenya, I could get there flying either east or west.
--If I fly say east from Columbia and just keep going, I will eventually get back to, you guessed it, Columbia.
Only works if the earth is a sphere.

Actually according to their retarded map it is possible because on their map the North Pole is at the center of the map. So you would be constantly flying a circle around the North Pole but that map is completely ridiculous because the Southern Hemisphere is blown up out of proportion making Australia like 3 times bigger and Europe and Asia put together and South America is like 3 times bigger than North America. It’s impossible for flat earthers to make a map of a flat earth that is to scale. Absolutely cannot be done.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

BNR32FAN said:
Your screenshot of convex says “curved like a circle or sphere when viewed from OUTSIDE.

View attachment 322812

Yes and on a globe there's no other way to view the convexity of the globe earth unless you're outside. Because when you're on land you don't see a curved, but a straight horizon line.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

BNR32FAN said:
Actually according to their retarded map it is possible because on their map the North Pole is at the center of the map. So you would be constantly flying a circle around the North Pole but that map is completely ridiculous because the Southern Hemisphere is blown up out of proportion making Australia like 3 times bigger and Europe and Asia put together and South America is like 3 times bigger than North America. It’s impossible for flat earthers to make a map of a flat earth that is to scale. Absolutely cannot be done.

Hmmm well I've never claimed to know what the actual world looks like. So what you've typed here by lumping me in with stereotypical flat earthers is irrelevant as I've admitted to not being able to tell anyone accurately what the continents or rest of the world looks like since my travels are limited.

Humble Penny · Nov 7, 2022

dani'el said:
This is getting ridiculous, and is easily settled.

Holding as close to the Equator as possible:
-- If I am in Ecuador and I want to go to say Kenya, I could get there flying either east or west.
--If I fly say east from Columbia and just keep going, I will eventually get back to, you guessed it, Columbia.
Only works if the earth is a sphere.

Spacecraft -unless you believe they never actually made it to space and the photos are just an elaborate hoax- but they can circumnavigate the earth and, yes take pictures of the curvature of the earth at many different points. And their orbit brings them back to the same places over and over again.

Ships have circumnavigated the earth now for many years, albeit by far less direct routes. Again, only works for a globe.

And instead of self leveling, let's look at water from the standpoint of taking the shape of its container. So inside a clear glass jar filled with water we have a very wet clear jar shape. On a very large ball with gravitational pull we have oceans conforming to the shape of the earth and giving us a horizon. Couldn't happen if we were flat.

There is some "squishing" of the ball due to its' rotation. The latitudinal circumference at the equator is 24,901 mi/40,075 km, but longitudinally measured around the poles it is just 24,859 mi/40,007 km.

If you doubt me, remember, I've been to the mountain ...

I've been higher than the mountain in an airplane and seen videos of high altitude balloons higher than the mountain you've climbed: and none show a curved earth. As regards your flight path argument we can make it void by I serving that airpilots only correct their altitude at two points in the entire trip:

Takeoff
Landing

If the earth were truly a globe then the pilots would constantly need to be correcting their flight path by pointing the plane nose down: because if it kept flying straight it would eventually end up in space. Otherwise trying to prove the earth is a globe or disprove it being a plane with flight paths is pretty useless as we don't have a live, unedited, fully panned out view of the earth to show us the true shapes of the continents.

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