Does Mary love us?

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higgs2

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I just noticed a signature that mentions that Our Lady loves us and prays for us. How do we know that she loves us? Why would she love us? Is it an overall "love one another" love as we are commanded by Jesus? Or is it an individual, you're unique love such as that we like to think of being from God? Does she pray for us individually, or is it an overall prayer for humankind.

I just got curious after seeing this phrase. I have no axe to grind about Mary whatsoever, but I am not all that familiar with theology about Her. I am interested.
 

calluna

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I just noticed a signature that mentions that Our Lady loves us and prays for us. How do we know that she loves us? Why would she love us? Is it an overall "love one another" love as we are commanded by Jesus? Or is it an individual, you're unique love such as that we like to think of being from God? Does she pray for us individually, or is it an overall prayer for humankind.

I just got curious after seeing this phrase. I have no axe to grind about Mary whatsoever, but I am not all that familiar with theology about Her. I am interested.
There are few enough who lived before the resurrection of whom it can be said love the saints- or rather, will love the saints, because they are 'asleep' at the present time (1 Thess 4:13-17). They are the sort mentioned in Hebrews 11, justified by their faith, faith that expresses itself through love. With the sole exception of Peter, of whom Jesus prophesied would die a martyr's death, there is not one person who has lived post-resurrection who can be certainly said to have died in Christ. But, barring forbidden necromancy, as practised by the reprobate king Saul with Samuel, communication with the dead is not even possible. The whole notion of a Mary who hears and responds is pure fabrication, like Bugs Bunny, though far less innocent and amusing.

There are, however, a few who can be said to have died hating Christ, who will be raised to judgment and condemnation. One such is Judas; another is Mary. If Mary was as obedient and faithful as the RCC insists upon, there is every reason to expect Mary's name in Hebrews 11; but it is not there- nor anywhere else. Curiously, Luke tells us that Mary, just Mary, was a thoughtful woman- yet no New Testament writer recorded anything good about her. The reason is that she was prophesied to be an enemy of Jesus- his very first personal enemy, the 'mother' of all the damned; the anti-type of Eve, the mother of all the living.

'Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, "See, this child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed — and a sword will pierce even your own soul — to the end that attitudes of many hearts may be revealed."' Lk 2:34-35

The Catholic explanation of this is that the sword is that of bereavement. But there are three very solid objections to this notion. One is that bereavement was for three days only, and, if Mary had had faith, as the RCC insists, she would have known that Jesus' absence was no worse than she was used to! Another objection is that mere blood relationships, that Jesus specifically, repeatedly, discounted, were no concern of any prophet. (The deeply humanist nature of Catholicism is revealed by its interpretation here.) Simeon's concern was not as an agony aunt, his concern was spiritual, and his prophecy was spiritual, and very far-reaching, too. And this concern is amply confirmed, anyway, because this verse, which is rarely translated correctly, makes mention of the death of the soul, not the mere disturbance of emotions. It puts that death firmly in the context of Jesus revealing inner dispositions, dispositions that lead to ultimate destiny, glorious or disastrous. Simeon was telling us that Jesus would, like many of his followers, have to deal with a parent who would hate him, as his true character grew and was made clear to Mary. And in this, he was 'tempted as we are', and had no advantage at all.

So we have an object lesson in Mary, and it continues through the gospels, in which Jesus never referred to Mary as his mother, and twice called Mary 'woman'. But we have more than one lesson to learn, because this person's story continues into Acts, where this 'destroyed' person made appearance of joining the church- the first of very many such persons to do so, as the apostles tell us. Yes, Mary was a thoughtful woman, and a bad one, as one would expect of someone 'greatly troubled' by the words of an angel of God. She is the mother of those who today are troubled by Jesus, who find the sword of the Spirit too sharp, too penetrating, who are forced by their disturbed state to make appearance of joining the church. She is the pioneer, even the personification of hypocrisy, and the history of the leadership of her following over two thousand years is more than sufficient testimony to that.
 
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calluna

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Holy Moses! I didn't know there were actually "anti-marions".
There aren't. There are antichrists, who are reduced to punishable mendacities such as that one. Don't listen, or you too will suffer.

Telling me that Mary was a hypocrite (that's a new one for me@@) is not answering the question.
That is another falsehood. If she's a hypocrite, she cannot love.

Okey dokey. I'd prefer to hear from Roman Catholics and Orthodox and others who revere Mary.
One could tell that from the OP. But this is not a Catholic-only lovey-dovey session, it's a place for real debate, and if Marianists cannot deal with posts that disagree with their view, and they often cannot, they should go fishing or something. Otherwise their presence looks like cheap propaganda.

:) Maybe I'm the only friend you've got. Let's see.
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Some NON-Catholic thoughts....

1. As a point of PERSONAL pious opinion (not doctrine or dogma), I tend to embrace that Mary does know us, love us and prays for us.

2. I have ZERO evidence that the above is true. Thus, I don't regard such as doctrine or fact - it's simply an aspect of my spirituality. If someone does NOT believe that Mary knows each of us or prays for us, I do not call him "wrong" - much less a heretic whose salvation is seriously in question.





.
 
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calluna

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Some NON-Catholic thoughts....

1. As a point of PERSONAL pious opinion (not doctrine or dogma), I tend to embrace that Mary does know us, love us and prays for us.
It's so reassuring to know that this is the opinion of a pious person.

2. I have ZERO evidence that the above is true. Thus, I don't regard such as doctrine or fact - it's simply an aspect of my spirituality. If someone does NOT believe that Mary knows each of us or prays for us, I do not call him "wrong" - much less a heretic whose salvation is seriously in question.
Anyone who does say that Marianists are wrong are heretics whose salvation is seriously in question, presumably.

All this ad hom. sure beats fact and logic, eh?
 
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lionroar0

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There are few enough who lived before the resurrection of whom it can be said love the saints- or rather, will love the saints, because they are 'asleep' at the present time (1 Thess 4:13-17). They are the sort mentioned in Hebrews 11, justified by their faith, faith that expresses itself through love. With the sole exception of Peter, of whom Jesus prophesied would die a martyr's death, there is not one person who has lived post-resurrection who can be certainly said to have died in Christ. But, barring forbidden necromancy, as practised by the reprobate king Saul with Samuel, communication with the dead is not even possible. The whole notion of a Mary who hears and responds is pure fabrication, like Bugs Bunny, though far less innocent and amusing.

There are, however, a few who can be said to have died hating Christ, who will be raised to judgment and condemnation. One such is Judas; another is Mary. If Mary was as obedient and faithful as the RCC insists upon, there is every reason to expect Mary's name in Hebrews 11; but it is not there- nor anywhere else. Curiously, Luke tells us that Mary, just Mary, was a thoughtful woman- yet no New Testament writer recorded anything good about her. The reason is that she was prophesied to be an enemy of Jesus- his very first personal enemy, the 'mother' of all the damned; the anti-type of Eve, the mother of all the living.

'Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, "See, this child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed — and a sword will pierce even your own soul — to the end that attitudes of many hearts may be revealed."' Lk 2:34-35

The Catholic explanation of this is that the sword is that of bereavement. But there are three very solid objections to this notion. One is that bereavement was for three days only, and, if Mary had had faith, as the RCC insists, she would have known that Jesus' absence was no worse than she was used to! Another objection is that mere blood relationships, that Jesus specifically, repeatedly, discounted, were no concern of any prophet. (The deeply humanist nature of Catholicism is revealed by its interpretation here.) Simeon's concern was not as an agony aunt, his concern was spiritual, and his prophecy was spiritual, and very far-reaching, too. And this concern is amply confirmed, anyway, because this verse, which is rarely translated correctly, makes mention of the death of the soul, not the mere disturbance of emotions. It puts that death firmly in the context of Jesus revealing inner dispositions, dispositions that lead to ultimate destiny, glorious or disastrous. Simeon was telling us that Jesus would, like many of his followers, have to deal with a parent who would hate him, as his true character grew and was made clear to Mary. And in this, he was 'tempted as we are', and had no advantage at all.

So we have an object lesson in Mary, and it continues through the gospels, in which Jesus never referred to Mary as his mother, and twice called Mary 'woman'. But we have more than one lesson to learn, because this person's story continues into Acts, where this 'destroyed' person made appearance of joining the church- the first of very many such persons to do so, as the apostles tell us. Yes, Mary was a thoughtful woman, and a bad one, as one would expect of someone 'greatly troubled' by the words of an angel of God. She is the mother of those who today are troubled by Jesus, who find the sword of the Spirit too sharp, too penetrating, who are forced by their disturbed state to make appearance of joining the church. She is the pioneer, even the personification of hypocrisy, and the history of the leadership of her following over two thousand years is more than sufficient testimony to that.
Blasphemy!!!!! Bah!!

She says yes to God to hate His Son !! Blaphemy, heresy , anti-christianity. Bah

Peace
 
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lionroar0

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I just noticed a signature that mentions that Our Lady loves us and prays for us. How do we know that she loves us? Why would she love us? Is it an overall "love one another" love as we are commanded by Jesus? Or is it an individual, you're unique love such as that we like to think of being from God? Does she pray for us individually, or is it an overall prayer for humankind.

I just got curious after seeing this phrase. I have no axe to grind about Mary whatsoever, but I am not all that familiar with theology about Her. I am interested.

All of the Saints love us. She has a special place of honor in this because, She's the Mother of God.

Peace
 
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Philothei

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Some like to dream that she had an option.

Blasphemously.


oh...what? why would that be a
Blasphemy again? I do not understand it... Mary like anyone else had free will she could say no to the Angel... It is just that God who fortells already knew what she chose to say...and all...:doh:
 
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narnia59

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Holy Moses! I didn't know there were actually "anti-marions". Telling me that Mary was a hypocrite (that's a new one for me@@) is not answering the question.
It's what's at the bottom of the slippery slope.

Okey dokey. I'd prefer to hear from Roman Catholics and Orthodox and others who revere Mary. Thanks.
Regarding why she loves us -- she loves Christ with a mother's love, and his love for us is such that he was willing to die for us. When we accept Christ he becomes our brother, we become adopted children of His Father, and his mother. Her love is that of a mother, and her longing is for all to accept the grace that flows from her son and to not turn our back on what he was willing to do for us.

I believe her prayers are both for all of humankind and individuals. I believe her intercession with her son is powerful and unique. And when you walk with her in prayer, your love for Jesus begins to overflow more than you can imagine.

This has been my experience at least.
 
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catlover

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It's so reassuring to know that this is the opinion of a pious person.

Anyone who does say that Marianists are wrong are heretics whose salvation is seriously in question, presumably.

All this ad hom. sure beats fact and logic, eh?

Faith is about what is not seen and cannot be proven-so why would we want to incorporate "logic" into faith-when faith has no logic?
 
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calluna

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Faith is about what is not seen and cannot be proven

Christianity is proven. It is the only thing that people are certain of. And that is because it has to be true. It is not proven like 'the square of the hypotenuse', admittedly, but who cares about that?

Jesus is not called 'the Logos' for nothing.

 
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calluna

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It's what's at the bottom of the slippery slope.

Regarding why she loves us -- she loves Christ with a mother's love, and his love for us is such that he was willing to die for us. When we accept Christ he becomes our brother, we become adopted children of His Father, and his mother.
So Mary really is God?
 
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higgs2

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It's what's at the bottom of the slippery slope.

Regarding why she loves us -- she loves Christ with a mother's love, and his love for us is such that he was willing to die for us. When we accept Christ he becomes our brother, we become adopted children of His Father, and his mother. Her love is that of a mother, and her longing is for all to accept the grace that flows from her son and to not turn our back on what he was willing to do for us.

I believe her prayers are both for all of humankind and individuals. I believe her intercession with her son is powerful and unique. And when you walk with her in prayer, your love for Jesus begins to overflow more than you can imagine.

This has been my experience at least.

thank you :)
 
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catlover

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Christianity is proven. It is the only thing that people are certain of. And that is because it has to be true. It is not proven like 'the square of the hypotenuse', admittedly, but who cares about that?

Jesus is not called 'the Logos' for nothing.

[/SIZE]

I didn't bring "logic" into faith- there are matters of faith which people know intuitively.
 
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