Does Man Play An Important Role In Salvation?

[gmm4j]

Hey Foghorn (you are in red),

Man has to believe (have faith in Christ) for salvation; since man, of himself is not able, God gives them (His elect) the gift of faith, it them becomes their faith, since man has a responsibility, it is this faith, the gift, which is theirs now, that he uses for salvation.

Glory to God alone!

why is one of the arguments used against "free-willers" that they are taking God off the throne? If God uses men in these other capacities to share a role in bringing about salvation in the lives of individuals, why can't He use the individual's free-will decision and receive no less glory by doing so.


Man does not have that ability. If man was able, man would share in God's glory.

I don't understand why you say this. All ability comes from God in the first place.Man is able to breathe. Do we share in God’s glory because He has given all men the ability to breathe?

Also, man delivers a gospel message that has been given to men, passed on orally and written through men. It is presented to men who are asked to believe it with their faith and you say it is God alone. Yes, He alone gets the glory, but He certainly involves man in the process. How beautiful are the feet of those… Again, the whole process looks synergistic to me, and yes, He still gets all the glory. Then God synergistically works in, with, and through man in a life-long sanctification process, but still He gets all the glory. It seems God doesn’t have a problem working with His creation and having His creation work with Him.

If it were God’s will to have man believe in Him with an ability that He had provided to all men, then that is His sovereign prerogative and He would receive no less glory by involving man in this capacity.

 

[gmm4j]

Hey Foghorn (as usual you are in red),
You may say, because it is not Scriptural. That is a valid argument that needs to be addressed, however, to simply charge that "free-willers" are usurping God's Sovereignty by trusting in Him when He has told us to trust in Him is not an acurate or fair argument. God can and does work with and through men and their choices to bring about His sovereign Will.

But not as far as salvation is concerned.
Obviously, we disagree on that J
Blessings!


I wonder g, could you give me a good explanation of your free will, and natural born faith being the cause of your salvation? Thanks.

The God-given ability to believe and trust God is the assumed and default position of Scripture (See Total Ability http://www.christianforums.com/t7680596/)

 

[SolaOne]

Hey y'all (that's Southern),

So, If it is agreed that man does play a role in salvation:

Writing the Word, Being an example, sharing the Gospel, and it is also recognized that man has a responsibility as Foghorn states, "No Calvinist ever denied man has a responsibility", why is one of the arguments used against "free-willers" that they are taking God off the throne? If God uses men in these other capacities to share a role in bringing about salvation in the lives of individuals, why can't He use the individual's free-will decision and receive no less glory by doing so. You may say, because it is not Scriptural. That is a valid argument that needs to be addressed, however, to simply charge that "free-willers" are usurping God's Sovereignty by trusting in Him when He has told us to trust in Him is not an acurate or fair argument. God can and does work with and through men and their choices to bring about His sovereign Will.

Blessings!

I think this may be true.

 

[Don Maurer]

Your setting up a false dichotomy. Yes, we share in the ministry of Christ when we are "in Christ." The theology your referring to is not the same. The glory for salvation belongs unto the Lord, there is no human merit or glory in salvation in Calvinist theology as there is in your theology.

 

[juleamager]

As a devout Eastern Catholic and hopefully a convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, I'll give you the Eastern view on this subject. Yes, God has chosen man to have a hand in salvation.

Salvation refers to this process of being saved from death and corruption and the fate of hell. You don't have to be Orthodox or any form of Eastern Christian to participate in salvation. God is merciful to all. There is nothing that a person can do to earn salvation. It is rather a gift from God. However, this gift of relationship has to be accepted by the believer, since God will not force salvation on humanity and in fact cannot force salvation on humanity. Man is free to reject the gift of salvation continually offered by God. God is like a lifeguard saving a child from drowning; the lifeguard can throw out the life preserver, but if the child doesn't grab it, they can't be saved.

 

[Soothfish]

People are almost never involved in anything other than the misery and destruction of this world.

 

[ronathanedwards]

The God-given ability to believe and trust God is the assumed and default position of Scripture

It is "assumed" ... assumptions are NEVER a foundation of good theology, explicit declarations from God's Word is the foundation. It is NOT the default position, the default position is the regula fide that has been handed down through the leaders/people of the Church, and the regula fide for this doctrine is the BIBLICAL understanding of man's free-will, which is, man will/must choose what is ultimately most desiring, and the natural man's heart always chooses evil. What gmm4j considers the default is the worldly, popular Greek philosophy which has held the Church captive for 1500 years except for the reformation that has restrained the worldly onslaught.

I would find it very alarming and uncomfortable if the Biblical view of free-will AGREES with every false religion, humanistic worldview, and the general public. I'm glad that the default Biblical view is adverse to these demonic foundations instead of being alongside with them.