Does life have a value?

[GrowingSmaller]

This is similar to the point I was trying to make when I talked about a mind or a biological drive is needed for value to exist.

I acknowledge that value is ideal and dependent on sucjective phenomena.

But "existing in the mind" need not imply "dependent on wish or whim" or "completely independent of other phenomena".

 

[Mling]

The experience of an object is in the brain, but it depends on an object (in sensory experience at least) called the "distal stimulus". Otherwise we may have an illusory experience (e.g. a hallucination) but it is not an experience of an real object.

And yet, from the point of view of the experiencer, it may be exactly the same as if it was an experience of a real object. That's my point, exactly--that experience is only incidentally and partially connected to reality, and any value attributed to the experience is even more distantly removed.

I know that experience of value can change from person to person, and from one time to the next. But you make it seem like "it's all in the head and dependent on wsh or whim" which is not true.

"Wish" might have been the wrong word, as people rarely choose their tastes, priorities or values. I was trying to convey the personal nature of value, but it is true that personal things aren't necessarily chosen.

Not an identical one. But besides you miss the point. Take the prospect of eating dog poo. We have "gut feelings" about it, it's not just a matter osf expressing arbitrary judgement. The same with life, but hopefully it will not be so repulsive.

Dog doo is a physical substance, containing the wastes of dogs, including various microorganisms we've labeled bacteria. Over the last zillion years--give or take-- people who tended to avoid it were less likely to die of diseases caught from it than the people who picked it up and played with it. From that, people have developed a gut reaction of disgust in response to the experience of dog doo (I am disgusted by images of it, even if they aren't real, and by thoughts I might have of it, even if they've never happened, and I would probably be disgusted by hallucinations of it, even if I knew they weren't real).

My feeling of disgust is not caused by the poop. It's caused by the zillion years of evolution that carefully selected for disgust at the idea of poop. The only role that the poop had was in the past--it caused people who didn't have that trait to not become ancestors.

Except the realit itself, assuming idealism is false.

The reality would be very, very different than the experience, though. The reality of a Picasso in the woods is not a Picasso in the woods. The reality is a collection of fine minerals on pulverized wood or animal skin, reflecting different wavelengths of light. What is the value of a wavelength of light?

Ok look at a spanner. You need to tighten a bolt. I hand you a screwdriver and say "the value of the object is in the person, so you can make a screwdriver as valuable as a spanner by training your mind."

You're talking about usefulness, which I think is very different, being much closer to physical reality. I might value that screwdriver very highly--maybe my grandpa gave it to me before he died. Maybe I am sexually oriented toward objects, and I'm married to the screwdriver. That doesn't make it the right tool for the job.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I agree that a sense of value has evolved but that it responds to objects. I am sure you will agree there are different responses for different objects, for example members of the opposite sex tend to be attractive to the mature adult. Basic evolution for a sexual species.

Also just as we have evolved distaste for dog dirt, which causes us to avoid it, or attraction for the opposite sex whereby we search for it's company, we have evolved a taste for or positive evaluation of life itself, which causes us to hang on to and defend it.

 

[quatona]

Value is a component part of all experience.
We experience life.
Therefore, value is a component part of life.

Doesn´t follow.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Ok you are right but I will define things more sharply:

Value is a property of all things experienced
We experience life
Therefore value is a property of life

 

[quatona]

Ok you are right but I will define things more sharply:

Value is a property of all things experienced

Disagree. Value is not a property of the thing. Value is a property of our experiences.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I might disagree, but

Value is a property of our experiences
Life is a set of experiences,
Thereofore life has value.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Reason why I disagree:

I want to tighten a bolt. I need a spanner not a hammer.
Under these circumstances the spanner has greater value.
This is not just about experiences, but takes into acount the properties of the object. Phenomenologically I would say the spanner is experienced as having value rather than, or that but possibly alongside it is my experience of the spanner that has value. My experience of it may have value (it is good that I have not lost it) but the object has a percieved value itself.

 

[quatona]

Reason why I disagree:

I want to tighten a bolt. I need a spanner not a hammer.
Under these circumstances the spanner has greater value.

You value it higher at a certain point in time.
The determining factor for temporarily valueing the spanner more than the hammer is your wish to do something particular.

but the object has a percieved value itself.

Jeez, you have a way with words!
"I perceive value of an object" -> "the object has a perceived value".
KISS!
It´s nothing that the object has, despite your continuous attempts to make it at least grammatically appear as such.
If you are a craftsman doing a complex work, the values of your tools would change every couple of seconds, according to your logic. They don´t. It´s your needs that change what you value at a certain point in time.
Despite unchanging properties of a tool you say its value changes persistently. So the value can´t be inherent to the tool.

 

[quatona]

I might disagree, but

Value is a property of our experiences
Life is a set of experiences,
Thereofore life has value.

Your logic is getting ever more...let´s say...creative.

Let me try this, too:

Being mistaken is a property of our experiences
Life is a set of experiences
Therefore life is mistaken.

 

[Mabuz]

"Value" by reference to what the OP gave is equal to the concept of qualia, which in latin is "what sort" or "what kind", thus if I taste the bitter juice of a lemon, the bitter taste is the qualia.

I would agree with the argument put forward by the OP, as true and valid.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

Your logic is getting ever more...let´s say...creative.

Let me try this, too:

Being mistaken is a property of our experiences
Life is a set of experiences
Therefore life is mistaken.

Therefore life is being mistaken?