Does Jesus have an eternal existence?

[tonychanyt]

The answer depends on your meaning of the term Jesus when you ask the question.

John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

For precision, let's label this entity Word-Jesus. Now, by definition, Word-Jesus is eternal because Word-Jesus was God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Paul put it this way, Colossians 1:

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16a For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible

Jesus put it this way, John 17:

5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Does Jesus have an eternal existence?

If by "Jesus", you mean the physical body of Jesus from Mary's womb, then no.

If by "Jesus", you mean Word-Jesus, then yes. The author of Hebrew, under inspiration, pointed out the preincarnate existence of Jesus as Melchizedek the high priest at the time of Abraham.

See also Preincarnate appearances of Jesus in the OT.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

The theory that Jesus before his early birth only existed as 'the Word of God' - still leaves the question whether you still acknowledge that to be a separate being/identity, and not just an 'expression' (which is what 'logos' normally means).

Also we have to read Johns 'logos' introduction in the light of the Greek philosophical context of that time where the 'logos' was considered to be some intermediary power between God and mankind; and that 'logos' concept existed outside of the Judaean/Christian world.

Personally I think there there are several Bible verses that refer to Jesus before his human birth that explicitly suggest a separate identity/being; and Jesus seems to present himself as clearly a separate identity/being from God.

(e.g. John 14:1 'Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.')

The early church seemed to nearly unanimously agree on that He was 'begotten' before all time (but not created). The Nicean Creed of 321 CE even adds the anathema that 'never was a time that He was not'. Logically that creates an inconsistency with being 'begotten' I would say.

To think of Jesus in his pre-existence as only some non-personal 'Expression / Word / Logos' seems to stretch the interpretation of those Bible verses too much; at least that is my personal impression.

 

[pmatt]

The answer depends on your meaning of the term Jesus when you ask the question.

John 1:

For precision, let's label this entity Word-Jesus. Now, by definition, Word-Jesus is eternal because Word-Jesus was God.


Paul put it this way, Colossians 1:


Jesus put it this way, John 17:


Does Jesus have an eternal existence?

If by "Jesus", you mean the physical body of Jesus from Mary's womb, then no.

If by "Jesus", you mean Word-Jesus, then yes.

See also Preincarnate appearances of Jesus in the OT.

If Jesus wa not eternal then he is not God. The NT has plenty of proof Jesus is God therefore Eternal.

Revelation 22:13 NIV
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.​

 

[tonychanyt]

The theory that Jesus before his early birth only existed as 'the Word of God'

Not only. See Preincarnate Jesus was Melchizedek

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

If Jesus wa not eternal then he is not God. The NT has plenty of proof Jesus is God therefore Eternal.

Revelation 22:13 NIV​

13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.​

If Jesus is God, then yes He is also eternal, but how to resolve the 'eternal' with 'begotten' (before all-time) ?

 

[tonychanyt]

If Jesus is God, then yes He is also eternal, but how to resolve the 'eternal' with 'begotten' (before all-time) ?

See For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son and follow up there

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

See For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son and follow up there

That thread has a different emphasis (the uniquess of Jesus as Son); but my point is that the concept of being 'begotten' (before all time) somehow cannot co-exist with being 'eternal' (without beginning). That is a different issue in my view.

 

[tonychanyt]

That thread has a different emphasis (the uniquess of Jesus as Son); but my point is that the concept of being 'begotten' (before all time) somehow cannot co-exist with being 'eternal' (without beginning). That is a different issue in my view.

Jesus was not begotten in the sense that you are using the word "begotten". It is better to say that Jesus is the monogenes Son of God.

 

[Reluctant Theologian]

Jesus was not begotten in the sense that you are using the word "begotten". It is better to say that Jesus is the monogenes Son of God.

I understand you focus on the 'only-begotten' Son of God - but that's not my issue here. What is your opinion of the Early Church's view of Jesus as being 'begotten' or 'generated' before all time? (so with this not referring to His birth)? Using Greek terms for our current understand in English does not really help in my opinion

 

[tonychanyt]

What is your opinion of the Early Church's view of Jesus as being 'begotten' or 'generated' before all time? (so with this not referring to His birth)? Using Greek terms for our current understand in English does not really help in my opinion

They misinterpreted the Greek monogenes which was ambiguous. When applying to Jesus, he was neither begotten nor generated. Jesus was the unique-monogenes Son of God with God. The monogenes Son of God had no birthdate.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If Jesus is God, then yes He is also eternal, but how to resolve the 'eternal' with 'begotten' (before all-time) ?

Jesus said, "I and the Father are one." That puts it quite clearly that Jesus is God and did not come to the world as a separate identify. The Scripture says that God was made flesh and dwelt among us. One of the main reasons why the religious leaders wanted Him dead was because He was making Himself equal with God. Further more, only God can walk on water, still a raging storm, and feed over 5,000 people with a small boy's lunch of 5 small loaves and 2 fish. Only God can say "Before Abraham was I AM." And only God can say to the mob who came arrest Him, asking, "Are you the one?", and answering "I am", making them all fall backwards. It shows that the mob couldn't arrest God and take Him into custody unless He voluntarily allowed it. Also at the Transfiguration, the voice from heaven said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." This showed that the Father acknowledged the Son of God, the second Person in the Trinity, showing that Jesus is in effect God.