Does God want men to choose easy options ?

[peter2]

What kind of energy does God want people to use so as to feed, clothe, or build themselves a roof where to live underneath ?

Would Jesus today choose to stay a carpenter, only using his own muscles of arms and own neurones of brain ?
Or would he choose easy options with petrol, electricity, etc.., even if polluting ?

Let's remind he resisted temptation (of easy option) to make stone become bread, even if probably not polluting

Jesus likely didn't look either for his disciples' affection through the gift of fossil fuel energy, the breakthrough of an oil deposit. Neither did he teach petrol extraction. If he did, it seems it's was not valuable enough to be written in the Gospel

Do you think, please, i go astray thinking quest for petrol, or any polluting energy, is a wordly quest that bears false testimony as regards christianism ?

 

[David Lamb]

What kind of energy does God want people to use so as to feed, clothe, or build themselves a roof where to live underneath ?

Would Jesus today choose to stay a carpenter, only using his own muscles of arms and own neurones of brain ?
Or would he choose easy options with petrol, electricity, etc.., even if polluting ?

Let's remind he resisted temptation (of easy option) to make stone become bread, even if probably not polluting

Jesus likely didn't look either for his disciples' affection through the gift of fossil fuel energy, the breakthrough of an oil deposit. Neither did he teach petrol extraction. If he did, it seems it's was not valuable enough to be written in the Gospel

Do you think, please, i go astray thinking quest for petrol, or any polluting energy, is a wordly quest that bears false testimony as regards christianism ?

As far as I am aware, Jesus didn't speak about the forms of energy we should use. Petrol ("gas" in the USA), electricity, and fossil fuels are not mentioned in the bible. (We do read of "coals", but the word means "embers".) We do read of Jesus, after His resurrection, cooking over a fire, presumably of burning wood:

“9 Then, as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish which you have just caught.” 11 Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land, full of large fish, one hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not broken. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come [and] eat breakfast.” Yet none of the disciples dared ask Him, “Who are You?” —knowing that it was the Lord.” (Joh 21:9-12 NKJV)

I do think we should be careful in the way we use the earth's resources - the earth is God's, not ours. But even if we use wood fires, lighting that burns olive oil, etc. it still causes pollution. The bible does mention pollution, but is the pollution of sin, not of burning fossil fuels.

 

[Aaron112]

What kind of energy does God want people to use so as to feed, clothe, or build themselves a roof where to live underneath ?

Let everyone learn to work with their hands, being dependent on no one.
And cause no harm.
And seek not gold or silver or money profits at the expense of people's lives, health , and honesty(bribery is required to do most anything industrially).

 

[Aaron112]

excerpt from websearch:

"Work with Hands, Depend on None​

The principle of learning to work with one's hands to achieve independence and avoid dependency on others is rooted in biblical teaching, particularly in 1 Thessalonians 4, which instructs believers to "mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you" so that their daily life may win the respect of outsiders and they will not be dependent on anybody. This emphasis on self-reliance through productive labor is presented as a way to foster financial independence, promote the gospel, and avoid the negative consequences of idleness, which the Bible warns leads to poverty and a lack of character. The value of manual labor is further affirmed by the observation that such work provides tangible results and a sense of agency, contrasting with the often intangible outcomes of white-collar jobs, and is increasingly seen as a secure career path in an economy where on-site services are less susceptible to outsourcing. The idea of avoiding harm is also central to ethical conduct, with the principle of "do no harm" being a foundational concept in various fields, including healthcare and policy, where actions are evaluated based on whether they prevent greater harm to others. This aligns with the broader ethical imperative to use one's abilities, including manual skills, to serve others constructively and prevent unnecessary suffering.

• The biblical directive to work with one's hands is intended to cultivate a quiet, productive life that earns respect and ensures self-sufficiency, preventing the negative impact of idleness on one's witness and community.
• Modern perspectives highlight the intellectual and practical satisfaction derived from manual trades, which are increasingly valuable in an economy where on-site work cannot be outsourced, offering a viable and secure alternative to traditional academic paths.
• The ethical principle of "do no harm" underscores the importance of actions that prevent damage, whether physical, social, or environmental, and supports the idea that using one's hands for useful, responsible work contributes positively to society.
• The combination of self-reliance through manual labor and the commitment to avoid causing harm reflects a holistic approach to personal responsibility and service, where one's talents are used to benefit both oneself and others."

 

[peter2]

The bible does mention pollution, but is the pollution of sin, not of burning fossil fuels.

Hello Mr Lamb.

Yes, fortunetaly, burning fossil fuels is not a sin.

However, couldn't it be at least an equivalent of the eating the forbidden fruit, that is, something temptation stirs ?

Indeed, even if God didn't explicitly forbid burning fossil fuels, men are aware of its noxiousness as regards its polluting effect.
Indeed also, it seems to me Adam and Eve were not in need of eating the fruit, and in a similar way, men are not in need of burning petrol

i mean : it's true they commonly pollute simply through the breathing, but the breathing is needed, as distinct from the burning fuel, and this pollution through the breathing is may be more tolerable for the Earth.
In a like manner, Man is neither in need of flying. Besides, he's got no wing

 

[peter2]

The principle of learning to work with one's hands to achieve independence and avoid dependency on others is rooted in biblical teaching

Hello Aaron,
i would reply the same as i replied Mr Lamb, as regards temptation, namely : isn't petrol stirring temptation for easy options whereas Jesus didn't give up before this temptation to make stone become bread, or to ask His Father for a legion of angels defending him on the cross

 

[David Lamb]

Hello Mr Lamb.

Yes, fortunetaly, burning fossil fuels is not a sin.

However, couldn't it be at least an equivalent of the eating the forbidden fruit, that is, something temptation stirs ?

I don't believe burning fossil fuels can be an equivalent of the eating the forbidden fruit, because the whole point of the matter of the fruit was that it was specifically forbidden by God:

““but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”” (Ge 2:17 NKJV)

There is no similar prohibition of using fossil fuels. As you say, it is not a sin, whereas eating the forbidden fruit was.

Indeed, even if God didn't explicitly forbid burning fossil fuels, men are aware of its noxiousness as regards its polluting effect.

Yes, I certainly agree that in matters like fossil fuels, recycling waste, etc., we should do what we can to prevent unnecessary pollution.

 

[peter2]

Yes, I certainly agree that in matters like fossil fuels, recycling waste, etc., we should do what we can to prevent unnecessary pollution.

i assume you speak at an individual level. At collective one, men are seemingly just lacking strong will

 

[David Lamb]

i assume you speak at an individual level. At collective one, men are seemingly just lacking strong will

Both individual and collective. I believe we should each individually take care with unnecessary use of fossil fuels, and with recycling as much as we can. But So should countries. Here in the UK, for example, the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be banned in just a few years time, and supermarkets are being encouraged to use less plastic in packaging.

 

[Aaron112]

Hello Aaron,
i would reply the same as i replied Mr Lamb, as regards temptation, namely : isn't petrol stirring temptation for easy options whereas Jesus didn't give up before this temptation to make stone become bread, or to ask His Father for a legion of angels defending him on the cross

So many wrong assumptions.

Jesus did and said perfectly, completely, all that the Eternal Almighty El Shaddai told Him.
Jesus never gave up.
Jesus always obeyed .
Jesus never disobeyed.

 

[Aaron112]

Yes, fortunetaly, burning fossil fuels is not a sin.

Anything that is not by faith is sin/ sinful. Harmful. Dangerous?

 

[Aaron112]

it's true they commonly pollute simply through the breathing

No. Breathing is not a cause of pollution.

 

[Tuur]

What kind of energy does God want people to use so as to feed, clothe, or build themselves a roof where to live underneath ?

Would Jesus today choose to stay a carpenter, only using his own muscles of arms and own neurones of brain ?
Or would he choose easy options with petrol, electricity, etc.., even if polluting ?

Let's remind he resisted temptation (of easy option) to make stone become bread, even if probably not polluting

Jesus likely didn't look either for his disciples' affection through the gift of fossil fuel energy, the breakthrough of an oil deposit. Neither did he teach petrol extraction. If he did, it seems it's was not valuable enough to be written in the Gospel

Do you think, please, i go astray thinking quest for petrol, or any polluting energy, is a wordly quest that bears false testimony as regards christianism ?

Taken at face value, the assumption then is doing anything "easy" is a sin when you can do it the "hard" way. That includes wedges, levers, and pulleys, and wheels. Why use an easy wheel when you can drag a sledge?

The real point is the question about pollution, not easy or hard. Animal waste in cities was such a problem that horseless carriages were seen as a less polluting option. Burning oil causes pollution, but so does burning stuff to cook, clean, and heat things. The uncomfortable thing is that pretty much all we do, "easy" or "hard," is going to cause some kind of pollution. Just because we don't see the results of mining rare earths and other minerals for more efficient devices and batteries doesn't mean that these are pollution-free.

That doesn't mean that some might not find all this troubling, or that I'm making light of your concern. Without insult, The Mother Earth News used to be a good resource for off-grid or sort-of off-grid and generally what was seen as lower environmental impact living. I don't know if the modern magazine is still like that, but if not, the back-issues, found in many libraries, are a treasure-trove of information from those actually used what they were writing about. They are a good resource if someone wants to move to a low-impact lifestyle. And no, that's not an insult.

 

[Aaron112]

The Mother Earth News used to be a good resource for off-grid or sort-of off-grid and generally what was seen as lower environmental impact living. I don't know if the modern magazine is still like that, but if not, the back-issues, found in many libraries, are a treasure-trove of information from those actually used what they were writing about. They are a good resource if someone wants to move to a low-impact lifestyle.

KOOL! (Used to read and look up the mother earth news regularly - great stuff (subject to testing) ! )

Strict Discipline is necessary for LIFE ! Meditating daily/ continually on what God Says, instead of easy brainwashing (like tv, media, politics(don't think for yourself), maybe most preachers(don't think for yourself).... )
Test Everything. Everything, everything, and before accepting anything or anyone, prove TRUE.

 

[Tuur]

Both individual and collective. I believe we should each individually take care with unnecessary use of fossil fuels, and with recycling as much as we can. But So should countries. Here in the UK, for example, the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be banned in just a few years time, and supermarkets are being encouraged to use less plastic in packaging.

As someone who's worked 40+ years keeping the electricity on, I honestly say "Good luck with that." I stepped out of our HQ maybe three or four days after Hurricane Helene came through, with the power still out, and saw an electric truck. My first thought was "Where are you charging it?" You had to go about forty miles to find a town with electricity, and that was on the edge of devastation. My home electricity was out a few hours shy of a week, and we were one of the fortunate ones. Our utility had most of its grid restored by the second Sunday after Helene, and I know some crews assisting us went to a neighboring utility who still had power out.

Meanwhile, all someone with a petrol fueled vehicle had to do was initially drive outside of the worst damage and fill-up, essentially "recharging" in the time it took to fill the tank. Then places with petrol in the damage area rigged up generators and were selling petrol there, and that was a big help. But unless you had a generator, you couldn't charge an electric vehicle.

Now, in the back of my mind is that the UK is a small country by US standards, and things aren't as far away from each other. But there was someone who does travel articles who tried to tour the UK in an electric vehicle, and it was a fail due to lack of charging locations and limited range. Note: I looked for the article just now and couldn't find it, but it was from a UK source.

There's something else that no one's talking about: When you charge anything electric, a puff of smoke may well be going up somewhere. Wind and solar doesn't have energy storage sufficient to provide a cushion, which means you still have to rely on non-renewables to tide you over, or sit in the dark. Lithium battery stations are a literal nightmare. We looked at one to provide power during peak times on one substation, but we couldn't put it where we needed because of the danger to structures if the thing ever caught fire. The idea behind renewables are good, but without power storage, they can't replace non-renewables.

The one existing solution no one really seems to want much is nuclear power, which produces nuclear waste, but compare the volume of that to the volume of greenhouse gases from other non-renewables.

Then again, I'm an old man, and no one listens to old men., so I guess people will have to learn the hard way.

 

[Tuur]

No. Breathing is not a cause of pollution.

Uh...breathing produces CO2, which some regard as a pollutant, and what we breath out is hardly clean, which is why surgeons mask when cutting someone open.

 

[Aaron112]

Uh...breathing produces CO2, which some regard as a pollutant, and what we breath out is hardly clean, which is why surgeons mask when cutting someone open.

No and no.
btw, look up effectiveness of masks.
re surgeons who tried without masks for a few months continued without masks unless ordered otherwise. Many more infections happen when masked. Not popular, so if someone wants to know, they have to find out for themselves what was covered up for decades.
CO2 is required ..... sigh..... A lot of money made though tricking those paying for being tricked.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What kind of energy does God want people to use so as to feed, clothe, or build themselves a roof where to live underneath ?

Would Jesus today choose to stay a carpenter, only using his own muscles of arms and own neurones of brain ?
Or would he choose easy options with petrol, electricity, etc.., even if polluting ?

Let's remind he resisted temptation (of easy option) to make stone become bread, even if probably not polluting

Jesus likely didn't look either for his disciples' affection through the gift of fossil fuel energy, the breakthrough of an oil deposit. Neither did he teach petrol extraction. If he did, it seems it's was not valuable enough to be written in the Gospel

Do you think, please, i go astray thinking quest for petrol, or any polluting energy, is a wordly quest that bears false testimony as regards christianism ?

Anything that causes harm is a sin. It's hard to tell when humanity went so wrong that we need to produce so much electricity just to maintain the population.

But the underlying premise of our civilization is greed and overpopulation resulting in the death of many species that God created in the beginning and said was very good. Kindly note that when God comes all of the nations will be angry because He will come to destroy those who destroy the earth.

It is fine to live in this world, but don't justify the sins of the nations, you'll just become a prophet of the beast.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What kind of energy does God want people to use so as to feed, clothe, or build themselves a roof where to live underneath ?

Would Jesus today choose to stay a carpenter, only using his own muscles of arms and own neurones of brain ?
Or would he choose easy options with petrol, electricity, etc.., even if polluting ?

Let's remind he resisted temptation (of easy option) to make stone become bread, even if probably not polluting

Jesus likely didn't look either for his disciples' affection through the gift of fossil fuel energy, the breakthrough of an oil deposit. Neither did he teach petrol extraction. If he did, it seems it's was not valuable enough to be written in the Gospel

Do you think, please, i go astray thinking quest for petrol, or any polluting energy, is a wordly quest that bears false testimony as regards christianism ?

I dare say that today we experience a cleaner and more sanitary environment than what Jesus Christ of Nazareth had to deal with. Here is the background on what people from ancient Israel had to deal with on a daily basis:


1. Water Pollution:
* Human and Animal Waste: Despite having some of the earliest recorded sanitary laws, waste disposal was still a major challenge in a crowded city. Human and animal waste, including urine, would have been dumped in the streets or into nearby rivers and valleys. This would have contaminated water sources, leading to the spread of diseases like dysentery and other parasitic infections. Archaeological evidence has found the remains of parasites like whipworm and roundworm in ancient latrines.
* Washing and Ritual Cleansing: While personal and ritual cleanliness was a significant part of Jewish tradition, the sheer number of people, particularly during major festivals like Passover, would have strained the water supply and sanitation systems.
2. Solid Waste and Garbage:
* Household and Slaughter Waste: Daily life generated a considerable amount of garbage, including broken pottery, food scraps, and animal bones from butchering.
* Landfills: Ancient Jerusalem had a dedicated city dump or landfill, which was a large mound of trash located outside the city walls, near the appropriately named "Dung Gate." While a system was in place to clear the streets, these landfills would have been a source of foul smells and attracted scavengers.
3. Air Pollution:
* Fires and Charcoal Smoke: The primary source of air pollution would have been smoke from fires used for cooking, heating, and metalworking. These fires, often in enclosed spaces, would have released particulate matter and other respiratory irritants. Archaeological findings of charcoal in the fossilized teeth of ancient people provide direct evidence of this type of pollution.
* Animal and Human Activity: Dust from unpaved streets, animal waste, and the general commotion of a crowded city would have contributed to poor air quality.
While ancient Jerusalem had an advanced water supply system for its time, with aqueducts and cisterns to manage water flow and supply, the lack of modern sewage treatment and waste disposal systems meant that the city and its surrounding areas were far from pristine. The pollution was a direct result of the density of the population and the limitations of the technology available at the time.

 

[peter2]

No. Breathing is not a cause of pollution.

i spoke of the contribution of the breathing to CO2 level in atmosphere, not qualitatively but quantitatively, in the precarious balance of gas proportions. It's this imbalance in these proportions that worries me. It's a bit like drugs : They say production and consomption of drugs 's always existed. All the issue is this of proportion