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Notice this observation; none of this happened until they received him. Of course we don't create our own salvation by our will.But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Notice these observations:
1. Not of the will of man
2. But born of God
3. God gives the right to become His children
The clear implications are these:
1. We don't choose to be born again
2. God chooses us to be born again
3. We don't take the right to be God's children, since it is a gift
Therefore, the willingness to receive Christ requires faith, and that faith arises out of God's working of regeneration. These are spiritual truths understood in the spiritual dimension, and is not understood or accepted by mere natural reasoning.
You made a statement that God describes Himself as fair, just and Loving with all humans. I’m asking where does He do that?Get to know Christ better.
Slaves to sin wouldn’t do that.Notice this observation; none of this happened until they received him. Of course we don't create our own salvation by our will.
But God does not do the work until we receive him, that is until we lay aside our own will, and accept his will for us.
According to Paul, who made a distinction between being a slave to sin and a slave to righteousness.According to you, maybe, but not according to the many verses confirming the belief precedes regeneration.
It means that if you can do good apart from regeneration, then it’s not necessary.What does this mean?
Because scripture says that we cannot.Can someone who is a slave to righteousness still sin? Obviously. So, why wouldn't someone who is a slave to sin be able to humble themselves?
I agree this is a huge topic, and this forum is not designed to resolve these issues. The reason I am responding is because I'm answering the objections to so-called Calvinism which the OP is about. In my view the objections are invalid, although many of the questions are legitimate.God obligates Himself to be fair, just and Loving with all humans, since this is the way He describes Himself.
What would you think of a rescuer who could just as easily and safely save everyone, but knowingly will only save a few? God is not like such a person, since God saves everyone willing to accept His help. Those who refuse God’s Love, charity, mercy, grace and forgiveness would not like to be in heaven, since there is only Godly type Love (charity) which they do not like.
What do you see as man’s earthly objective and remember you can take any Biblical command and say “ This is man’s objective” and have Biblical support for it?
The reason you have free will is because it is required for you to complete your earthly objective.
This messed up world which includes satan roaming around is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).
God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest gift being having a Love like His.
If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.
Why would God have a totally unselfish type of Love, since He personally would not get anything out of it? If God’s “Love” is some kind of knee jerk reaction, then it is really meaningless (something like; gravity which is nice to have, but everyone automatically has it). God Loves us in spite of what we have done, who we are or what we will do, so it has to be by His choice.
God would create the right universe for the sake of the individuals that will accept His gift (the most powerful force [Love] in all universes, since that force [Love] compels even God to do all He does) and thus we become like He is (the greatest gift He could give).
What keeps the all-powerful Creator from just giving whatever He wants to his creation, eliminating the need for free will and this earthly time yet:
There are just something even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), like create another Christ since Christ has always existed, the big impossibility for us is; create humans with instinctive Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type Love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)
This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or ever deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).
This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.
Let me just give you an example of How God works to help willing individuals.
All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them burden them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).
If the nonbeliever had knowledge of God's existence that person would not need faith in God's existence, but faith is needed for humility and humility is needed to humbly accept pure charity and the only way to get Godly type Love is through accepting it as pure charity in the form of forgiveness.
That is an introduction to a huge topic.
Not sure where you're coming from with this analogy. Dead doesn't mean "not knowing." Dead means "without God." No one "falls into God's will." People who do God's will are directed by God to do so, because God is ultimately in control of all circumstances. God can cause unbelievers to do His will at times, which He did with Nebuchadnezzar for example. In Proverbs it says "the heart of the king is in God's hand, and He turns it whichever way He will." So God can work His will in a person even if they aren't born again. How much more does God turn the heart of the one whom He chose, born-again with the indwelling Spirit? Believing the gospel is not a natural act; it's supernatural, so God has to work that work in individuals.For the sake of argument:
Did God create people with a DNA to need Him?
For argument sake can someone fall into His will outside of being in Christ.
For example A woman's will may be that all the dishes are clean. SHE DOES NOT ASKED ANYONE TO DO THE DISHES. BUT THERE IS A PILE OF DIRTY DISHES IN THE SINK. HER SON COMES HOME AND DOES THE DISHES.
HAS HIS ACTIVITY FALLEN INTO THE WOMANS WILL?
AND THEREFORE IS IT POSSIBLE THAT GOD DRAWS THOSE PEOPLE IN?
DOES THAT MAKE THAT PERSON STILL DEAD OF NOT KNOWING HER WILL? YES
I can agree with that Ideal....However I'm not dogmatic about it...I agree this is a huge topic, and this forum is not designed to resolve these issues. The reason I am responding is because I'm answering the objections to so-called Calvinism which the OP is about. In my view the objections are invalid, although many of the questions are legitimate.
I see that your argument is well-thought out, except you are leaving out some things, which every Arminian leaves out, namely that because of the Fall, man is totally depraved spiritually, and this is described in Rom. 3:10-18. If man wasn't totally depraved, then he could produce a spiritually righteous act, and if he could do that, then righteousness would be established by obedience to the law. But the apostle Paul debunks that idea.
This makes the gospel message about Christ much more serious than most people make it out to be. Christ doesn't save people from mistakes. He saves them from hating God. And this takes an act of God, since human reasoning cannot come to the point of choosing to love Him. God must intervene in the life and soul of individuals.
TD
Yes, that full slogan of the Reformation is "We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is not alone." It means that real faith is not just a claim, but has spiritual fruit that follows. This is essentially what James is about. But the great misunderstanding in the Roman Church and many others is they think James is teaching essentially that salvation is by the grace of God plus our works. That misunderstanding has led to this very debate that has been going on for centuries.The faith that saves is never alone.
Just as Noah's ark was faithful in saving those who got in it. ALONE IT SAVES no one!
No, it says "who were born..." meaning that those who receive Him were born of God.Notice this observation; none of this happened until they received him. Of course we don't create our own salvation by our will.
But God does not do the work until we receive him, that is until we lay aside our own will, and accept his will for us.
Don't get what God does in the natural realm confused with what He does in the spiritual realm. Yes, God spoke to Cain, but since Cain was not a believer, he failed to listen. God speaking to Cain doesn't mean God was working in him spiritually, the way He did with Abel. This was the reason for Cain's envy, and was the same reason for the Jews' envy of Christ.I can agree with that Ideal....However I'm not dogmatic about it...
I figure because GOD ALSO gave us a conscious.
And even with Adam and Eve fall God still communicated with them.
And the question of How God decides to draw is still unanswered
Plus what if outside of Christ one can still fall into His will.
Since He imposes on our will in some way...
Even before Abraham was declared righteous, God still must have made Himself known.
For How can one call upon whom they have not heard, However even those who heard
Did not always choose to trust.
Did God communicate with Cain even Cain had fallen?
But that's not what you said:"Heck, if belief preceded regeneration, we would even need to be regenerated."It means that if you can do good apart from regeneration, then it’s not necessary.
For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
— Romans 8:6-8
Before regeneration, we are in the flesh. And Paul is clear that those in the flesh cannot please God.
Sorry. “wouldn’t”But that's not what you said:"Heck, if belief preceded regeneration, we would even need to be regenerated."
And you have it backwards, as usual.
Acts 16:30Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved,
First, belief, then salvation.
But, it does not say that we cannot respond to God. Just the opposite, it says even nature shows us God, so that men are without excuse.Because scripture says that we cannot.
Right there in the text he is told how to be saved. This isn't a lone verse.As to Acts 16, where does it say when he was regenerated?
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