Does God Love Sinners?

[lesjude]

What does the Bible say? No person by a free will choice will ever choose the foolishness of Christianity which the Bible clearly says: 1 Corinthians 1:23-24, John 3:19-21, John 6:37 and 65. However that there is one God is revealed in His creation as Acts 14:17 and Romans chapters 1 and 2 say. This is all that God requires to judge them.

IF anyone is elect by God's predestined choice he will hear the gospel and receive Jesus. It may even be by a dream, vision, or other supernatural means. God loves His elect and all of them will choose to receive Jesus.

Many believe that God looked down eternity and chose the ones that would make a freewill choice to receive salvation. This cannot be true because it would mean that salvation is not by grace and man can do something on his own to receive it. According to the scripture salvation is by grace through faith. It has to be understood that if God had not predestined a FEW to be saved NONE would ever be. Clearly the Bible teaches that humanity would never "freely" choose the foolishness of Christianity.

God does not love sinners in the sense that there is anything about them or their lives to love. They disgust Him. In fact He drowned ALL of them at one point. God's very nature is love so he gave them 120 years of Noah preaching and building an ark for them to repent or even build their own ark. God will again judge sinners at the close of this age with fire.

Christianity today has a false message in that they tell the sinner God loves them. This gives them the false impression that there is something about them that God does not hate and condemn. The truth is God's nature is love so He sent Jesus to make it possible for sinners to be made righteous, forsake sin, and be loved by God. There is a BIG difference. Sin and sinners disgust God.

 

[hedrick]

I don't think even Calvin would say that God finds nothing in sinners to love:

"We are all offensive to God, guilty in his sight, and by nature the children of hell. But as the Lord wills not to destroy in us that which is his own, he still finds something in us which in kindness he can love." And while we were sinners, Christ died for us.

We have to tell sinners that God loves them and sent Christ to redeem them. What else can we say: that we have to stop sinning before Christ can die for us? No, our new life is a *result* of God's love and acceptance. We can certainly say that God loves us so much that he won't leave us in our sin, but we can't imply that we have to give up sin before we can be saved.

Your last sentence is illuminating. I fear that a desire to treat homosexuality as the unforgiveable sin has pushed a number of Christians into forms of works righteousness.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

What does the Bible say? No person by a free will choice will ever choose the foolishness of Christianity which the Bible clearly says: 1 Corinthians 1:23-24, John 3:19-21, John 6:37 and 65. However that there is one God is revealed in His creation as Acts 14:17 and Romans chapters 1 and 2 say. This is all that God requires to judge them.

IF anyone is elect by God's predestined choice he will hear the gospel and receive Jesus. It may even be by a dream, vision, or other supernatural means. God loves His elect and all of them will choose to receive Jesus.

Many believe that God looked down eternity and chose the ones that would make a freewill choice to receive salvation. This cannot be true because it would mean that salvation is not by grace and man can do something on his own to receive it. According to the scripture salvation is by grace through faith. It has to be understood that if God had not predestined a FEW to be saved NONE would ever be. Clearly the Bible teaches that humanity would never "freely" choose the foolishness of Christianity.

God does not love sinners in the sense that there is anything about them or their lives to love. They disgust Him. In fact He drowned ALL of them at one point. God's very nature is love so he gave them 120 years of Noah preaching and building an ark for them to repent or even build their own ark. God will again judge sinners at the close of this age with fire.

Christianity today has a false message in that they tell the sinner God loves them. This gives them the false impression that there is something about them that God does not hate and condemn. The truth is God's nature is love so He sent Jesus to make it possible for sinners to be made righteous, forsake sin, and be loved by God. There is a BIG difference. Sin and sinners disgust God.

This false message of God's love for sinners has had predictable results. Unrepentant sodomites have been accepted as Christians and organized "churches".

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

It's amazing how one mans' sin leads him to CHRIST,not only ONCE,but all the days of his life. And it's also amazing how another mans' sins lead him into perdition.

It's also amazing how GOD takes one mans' sins...and by HIS GRACE teaches him meaningful Spiritual lessons in life,about the war the nature of his flesh is waging, continuously against the Nature of his spirit which has been born of The SPIRIT OF CHRIST ABOVE and CREATED IN HIS IMAGE. How this war shall not cease until he leaves "the body of this death". Yet the SPIRIT has already won..."For greater is HE who lives within me,than he who is of the world."
Yet the man who ends up in perdition. May appeared to have been a much better person on earth,than the man who was born of the SPIRIT,which gave him power~&~faith to believe in~&~ upon CHRIST while he was on earth,and is now in heaven. Law condemns all sinners,while GRACE SAVES all sinners whom have been given faith by the SPIRIT to believe in CHRIST.

 

[lesjude]

I don't think even Calvin would say that God finds nothing in sinners to love:

"We are all offensive to God, guilty in his sight, and by nature the children of hell. But as the Lord wills not to destroy in us that which is his own, he still finds something in us which in kindness he can love." And while we were sinners, Christ died for us.

Jesus died savingly for ONLY the elect. Please give one scripture that says God's love is given for any of a person's "qualities". "Us" refers to the predestined elect and no one else. God's love is mentioned many times in the Bible for His elect saints. There are VERY few places where God's love is spoken of for sinners.

We have to tell sinners that God loves them and sent Christ to redeem them. What else can we say: that we have to stop sinning before Christ can die for us? No, our new life is a *result* of God's love and acceptance. We can certainly say that God loves us so much that he won't leave us in our sin, but we can't imply that we have to give up sin before we can be saved.

There is no salvation possible unless a sinner sees he is one and is under the judgement and condemnation of a righteous God whose standard of righteousness is Himself. God "accepts" no one. They must receive His free gift by acknowledging they are SINNERS in need of His Life in them to give them power to stop sinning.
Jesus was not the least bit user friendly. Notice when they left He did not tell them He loved them, beg them to stay, or have a choir of angels sing "Almost Persuaded" or "Just As I Am".
John 6:65-67

New King James Version (NKJV)
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”


Note also He CHALLENGED the 12. He just lost most of His "church".
Mark 1:15

New King James Version (NKJV)

15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Acts 2:36-38

New King James Version (NKJV)

36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



The methods you advocate will make converts and even church members, but few disciples.

Your last sentence is illuminating. I fear that a desire to treat homosexuality as the unforgiveable sin has pushed a number of Christians into forms of works righteousness.

It is not the "unforgivable" sin and I have not said it is. Seeing it as sin, repenting, then being set free from the demonic oppression/possession of sodomy by the power of the Holy Spirit is what is necessary. Saying God approves/understands/condones/made them that way is religious nonsense.

 

[cygnusx1]

I don't think even Calvin would say that God finds nothing in sinners to love:

.

Pink does !

Just sayin.

 

[bling]

Who did Jesus not Love?

Did Jesus love those that walked away from him like the rich young ruler?

When Jesus was asked about the neighbor we should Love, he chose a Samaritan that would normally hate Jews and who the Jews would hate. So are we allowed to not Love anyone and is God/Christ our example of Loving everyone? Just because by God’s definition of “hate”, he did hate Esau, by that same deity definition Jesus tells us we need to hate our family. So can God Love and hate the same way we are to love and hate our family?

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

All the knowledge in the world can't give me the power to LOVE GOD FIRST~&~then my neighbor as my self. Only GOD can do that. The greatest of all vanties,and probably the greatest evil. Is a religious soul,who's whole life is supposedly dedicated to GOD. Yet has not LOVE, but more than often is filled with hate...All in the NAME of JESUS.

 

[Shulamite]

God loves everyone. Every person sins. This is simple. As per the flood, maybe He was trying to baptize everyone.

Malachi 1:3
Romans 9:13

"Jacob I LOVED, Esau I HATED"... (God's words.)

Baptism never saved anyone. Baptism is an outward expression of the rebirth of someone by the Spirit inwardly.

 

[hedrick]

"Jacob I LOVED, Esau I HATED"... (God's words.)

I'll go with Calvin on this one. He understands this as being about choosing the Jewish people to be his covenant people, as Jacob was the ancestor of Israel, and Esau of Edom. This was not primarily about salvation of individuals. (I would say that it wasn't at all about the salvation of individuals.)

This passage is quoted in Romans. If you put the quotation into the context of Paul's whole argument, continue on through the end of chapter 11, you will see that Paul has a similar intent. The prophets saw God's choice of Israel as part of his plan to redeem the entire world. All nations would eventually come to Jerusalem to worship God. Similarly, Paul saw that God had chosen Gentiles as the first to be saved, but that this was part of his plan to save Jews as well. Again, Romans needs to be seen primarily as a discussion of how God intended to work with Jews and Gentile, and the role of the Law. Yes, God hated Esau, and like a potter he made some pots for destruction. But this was a temporary stage on the way to his final goal of saving the entire world. His goal was to use salvation of Gentiles as a way to reach the Jews. (Whether this means every individual or that salvation has reached all groups I leave to another discussion.)

Some interpreters have said that in Romans Paul was speaking entirely in this broad covenant context and wasn't intending to speak of individual salvation at all. I'm not prepared to go quite that far. But we do need to be careful when citing Romans to look at how passages fit into his overall argument.

 

[cygnusx1]

I disagree, as Jesus so simply summed it up, love God above all, Love everyone else the same. Seems very simple.

Of course it's simple , everything is simple if you merely quote those texts that support your premises .

Where it becomes far from simple is when one discovers many texts that don't easily fit with ones presuppositions , such as where scripture says God hates the workers of iniquity , or God is angry with the wicked every day , etc etc

 

[Skala]

I'll go with Calvin on this one. He understands this as being about choosing the Jewish people to be his covenant people, as Jacob was the ancestor of Israel, and Esau of Edom. This was not primarily about salvation of individuals. (I would say that it wasn't at all about the salvation of individuals.)

This passage is quoted in Romans. If you put the quotation into the context of Paul's whole argument, continue on through the end of chapter 11, you will see that Paul has a similar intent. The prophets saw God's choice of Israel as part of his plan to redeem the entire world. All nations would eventually come to Jerusalem to worship God. Similarly, Paul saw that God had chosen Gentiles as the first to be saved, but that this was part of his plan to save Jews as well. Again, Romans needs to be seen primarily as a discussion of how God intended to work with Jews and Gentile, and the role of the Law. Yes, God hated Esau, and like a potter he made some pots for destruction. But this was a temporary stage on the way to his final goal of saving the entire world. His goal was to use salvation of Gentiles as a way to reach the Jews. (Whether this means every individual or that salvation has reached all groups I leave to another discussion.)

Some interpreters have said that in Romans Paul was speaking entirely in this broad covenant context and wasn't intending to speak of individual salvation at all. I'm not prepared to go quite that far. But we do need to be careful when citing Romans to look at how passages fit into his overall argument.

I'd be interesting in seeing Exegesis of Romans 9 that could lead to this conclusion.

One question I have is, why would an objector question God's justice if Paul was merely talking about national privileges? Remember, the objection Paul anticipates is: "Why does He still find fault, for who can resist His will?"

In other words the objector is asking how can God hold us accountable if it is merely His will that some are purposed to be hardened to display His glory (such as pharaoh).

Further, what place do statements like these have in a passage merely about which lineage Christ will come through? : (For he has mercy on whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills). What on earth does mercy and non-mercy have to do with mere national privileges and lineages?

 

[Rubiks]

Of Course God loves sinners. We shouldn't even have to quote scripture to know that. It is revealed in nature that God has special love to every sinner.

 

[hedrick]

I'd be interesting in seeing Exegesis of Romans 9 that could lead to this conclusion.

One question I have is, why would an objector question God's justice if Paul was merely talking about national privileges? Remember, the objection Paul anticipates is: "Why does He still find fault, for who can resist His will?"

In other words the objector is asking how can God hold us accountable if it is merely His will that some are purposed to be hardened to display His glory (such as pharaoh).

Further, what place do statements like these have in a passage merely about which lineage Christ will come through? : (For he has mercy on whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills). What on earth does mercy and non-mercy have to do with mere national privileges and lineages?

I said that although I accept that the general outline of this part of Romans is about God's people and covenant, Paul does still see individual implications. But Pharaoh was hardened in order to allow God to show his power through the Exodus of his people. That is, the primary issue in Exodus here is God's work with Israel, not Pharaoh as an individual, just as the primary issue in Chap 9 is how God works with the Jewish and Gentile peoples.

The covenant is not about "national privilege." The prophets saw God's choice of Israel as part of his plan to redeem all mankind. Similarly, Paul sees that God's temporary rejection of Israel as part of God's plan to redeem all mankind.

 

[Cush]

I don't think even Calvin would say that God finds nothing in sinners to love:

"We are all offensive to God, guilty in his sight, and by nature the children of hell. But as the Lord wills not to destroy in us that which is his own, he still finds something in us which in kindness he can love." And while we were sinners, Christ died for us.

We have to tell sinners that God loves them and sent Christ to redeem them. What else can we say: that we have to stop sinning before Christ can die for us? No, our new life is a *result* of God's love and acceptance. We can certainly say that God loves us so much that he won't leave us in our sin, but we can't imply that we have to give up sin before we can be saved.

Your last sentence is illuminating. I fear that a desire to treat homosexuality as the unforgiveable sin has pushed a number of Christians into forms of works righteousness.

While I agree with you, I couldn't help but comment on your question, "What else can we say." Perhaps John 9:31 says it best:

"We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will."

Even the Pharisees seemingly agreed to this by making this statement:

John 9:34
To this they replied, “You were steeped in sin at birth; how dare you lecture us!” And they threw him out.

I come to the conclusion that for this reason why we are to pray for the enemies of our God's kingdom. Perhaps, He as much as I prefer, He ignores their heathen prayers.

Shout Glory

 

[jasonsloss]

What does the Bible say? No person by a free will choice will ever choose the foolishness of Christianity which the Bible clearly says: 1 Corinthians 1:23-24, John 3:19-21, John 6:37 and 65. However that there is one God is revealed in His creation as Acts 14:17 and Romans chapters 1 and 2 say. This is all that God requires to judge them.

IF anyone is elect by God's predestined choice he will hear the gospel and receive Jesus. It may even be by a dream, vision, or other supernatural means. God loves His elect and all of them will choose to receive Jesus.

Many believe that God looked down eternity and chose the ones that would make a freewill choice to receive salvation. This cannot be true because it would mean that salvation is not by grace and man can do something on his own to receive it. According to the scripture salvation is by grace through faith. It has to be understood that if God had not predestined a FEW to be saved NONE would ever be. Clearly the Bible teaches that humanity would never "freely" choose the foolishness of Christianity.

God does not love sinners in the sense that there is anything about them or their lives to love. They disgust Him. In fact He drowned ALL of them at one point. God's very nature is love so he gave them 120 years of Noah preaching and building an ark for them to repent or even build their own ark. God will again judge sinners at the close of this age with fire.

Christianity today has a false message in that they tell the sinner God loves them. This gives them the false impression that there is something about them that God does not hate and condemn. The truth is God's nature is love so He sent Jesus to make it possible for sinners to be made righteous, forsake sin, and be loved by God. There is a BIG difference. Sin and sinners disgust God.

This false message of God's love for sinners has had predictable results. Unrepentant sodomites have been accepted as Christians and organized "churches".

Romans 5:8 NKJV

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[lesjude]

Romans 5:8 NKJV

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Yes, this is true. His elect were sinners. This refers to them ONLY and no one else. Jesus died savingly for the elect only who were chosen before time began. Please give scripture that shows anything else.
Here is that love. Please explain to me why you believe all sinners qualify for that love when Jesus clearly says those the Father gave Him i.e. the elect.
John 17:23-24New King James Version (NKJV)

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Here it is again:

John 6:65

New King James Version (NKJV)

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

 

[jasonsloss]

Yes, this is true. His elect were sinners. This refers to them ONLY and no one else. Jesus died savingly for the elect only who were chosen before time began. Please give scripture that shows anything else.
Here is that love. Please explain to me why you believe all sinners qualify for that love when Jesus clearly says those the Father gave Him i.e. the elect.
John 17:23-24New King James Version (NKJV)

23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Here it is again:

John 6:65

New King James Version (NKJV)

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

first off here is verse six in Romans 5... 6 While we were yet in weakness [powerless to help ourselves], at the fitting time Christ died for (in behalf of) the ungodly.

notice the ungodly this is referring to all sinners not this elect thing...

look at these verses...

Romans 10:13 NKJV
For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

1 Timothy 2:4 NKJV
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[rogueapologist]

What does the Bible say? No person by a free will choice will ever choose the foolishness of Christianity which the Bible clearly says: 1 Corinthians 1:23-24, John 3:19-21, John 6:37 and 65. However that there is one God is revealed in His creation as Acts 14:17 and Romans chapters 1 and 2 say. This is all that God requires to judge them.

IF anyone is elect by God's predestined choice he will hear the gospel and receive Jesus. It may even be by a dream, vision, or other supernatural means. God loves His elect and all of them will choose to receive Jesus.

Many believe that God looked down eternity and chose the ones that would make a freewill choice to receive salvation. This cannot be true because it would mean that salvation is not by grace and man can do something on his own to receive it. According to the scripture salvation is by grace through faith. It has to be understood that if God had not predestined a FEW to be saved NONE would ever be. Clearly the Bible teaches that humanity would never "freely" choose the foolishness of Christianity.

God does not love sinners in the sense that there is anything about them or their lives to love. They disgust Him. In fact He drowned ALL of them at one point. God's very nature is love so he gave them 120 years of Noah preaching and building an ark for them to repent or even build their own ark. God will again judge sinners at the close of this age with fire.

Christianity today has a false message in that they tell the sinner God loves them. This gives them the false impression that there is something about them that God does not hate and condemn. The truth is God's nature is love so He sent Jesus to make it possible for sinners to be made righteous, forsake sin, and be loved by God. There is a BIG difference. Sin and sinners disgust God.

This false message of God's love for sinners has had predictable results. Unrepentant sodomites have been accepted as Christians and organized "churches".

God must love sinners, for God is love. The notion of hatred is antithetical to the nature of God...if God hated, it would signal a diminution of the nature and being a God, an obvious absurdity.

 

[cygnusx1]

God must love sinners, for God is love. The notion of hatred is antithetical to the nature of God...if God hated, it would signal a diminution of the nature and being a God, an obvious absurdity.

I don't think so , man is created in Gods image , love and hatred in man are divine creations .

 

[rogueapologist]

I don't think so , man is created in Gods image , love and hatred in man are divine creations .

That's absurd...so which person of the Trinity hates the other? Or is the divine hatred within the Godhead self-referential?