Does God know/see the future?

[Childlike]

Hi Josephus,

I saw by your name that you are the founder of this forum? I've got to hand it to you, this is quite a cool forum... Thanks for making it available to us.

My question:

If God knew me before He formed me in my Mother's womb, why then, doesn't He know what I'm going to do next?

 

[allieisme]

But He does know what your going to do next.
Why dont you think He cant?

Sorry I'm aware I'm not Josephus.

allie

 

[Childlike]

I don't think He can't. I'm just wondering why Josephus does.

 

[allieisme]

OH I see!
Sorry about that

 

[Childlike]

That's perfectly ok. You were just asking the same thing I was.

 

[Josephus]

Well, let's see. I know you. You know you. God knows you a lot more than you or I do. But what is that knowledge of?

Us!

Not some future choice.

Do you know what you are going to do next? Probably. It's a thought in your mind somehow, and you'll realize it shortly. That is the same way God knows you, but only better. He doesn't know the exact choices you will make until the closer you get to actually making them.

He doesn't know what you are going to choose next for the same reason you don't know what you are going to choose next (well actually you do).

You have a free will. God has given it to you for one purpose in life: to please Him with it. You can only do that, if you choose what is right. God knows what is right, but it is up to you to choose it. If God knew what you would choose (say you choose the wrong choice), then why do you think He then would keep appealing to us to make the right choice - even if he knew we would not? It doesn't make sense. But that's because we have to invent a lot of thinking to resolve that issue when in fact the answer is much simpler, and simply biblical:

God chooses to not know our futures to the point where doing so would limit us actually having free will; just like God chooses to no longer remember our sins when we ask him for forgiveness.

It's a choice of love.

and that ultimately is the answer to your question.

 

[Childlike]

Thanks for writing back. I was talking with a friend about this, and he said the same thing you did. This makes sense to me, but I am still wondering about something.

How does God's knowledge of what we will do have any effect on our free will? Bare with me here, I'm not debating you, I'm simply just trying to understand by asking.

Also, what about this:

If I'm about ready to be hit by a Semi, and the Lord had my life planned for His glory through a very specific ministry, if I get hit and die, won't He be like, "Darn, I really needed her too...if only I had known she was going to step in front of that Semi, or better yet, if only I'd known that man was going to hit her..."

You see my point?

 

[heydeerman]

To say that God doesnt know what we are going to do next is saying that God is not God. It doesnt matter if you hold to free will or not. God is all knowing. Do you think that God didnt know that Adad and Eve were going to sin against Him in the garden? Do you think God was surprised, possibly shocked at what they had done? Absolutely not. God is not like man in any way. he is beyond us and above us in every way. that is what the word Holy means.

 

[DrLao]

If God knows what decisions a person will make throughout their life, then why does He create souls that He knows are going to go to hell?

 

[Davester]

Originally posted by Josephus
Well, let's see. I know you. You know you. God knows you a lot more than you or I do. But what is that knowledge of?

Us!

Not some future choice.

Do you know what you are going to do next? Probably. It's a thought in your mind somehow, and you'll realize it shortly. That is the same way God knows you, but only better. He doesn't know the exact choices you will make until the closer you get to actually making them.

He doesn't know what you are going to choose next for the same reason you don't know what you are going to choose next (well actually you do).

You have a free will. God has given it to you for one purpose in life: to please Him with it. You can only do that, if you choose what is right. God knows what is right, but it is up to you to choose it. If God knew what you would choose (say you choose the wrong choice), then why do you think He then would keep appealing to us to make the right choice - even if he knew we would not? It doesn't make sense. But that's because we have to invent a lot of thinking to resolve that issue when in fact the answer is much simpler, and simply biblical:

God chooses to not know our futures to the point where doing so would limit us actually having free will; just like God chooses to no longer remember our sins when we ask him for forgiveness.

It's a choice of love.

and that ultimately is the answer to your question.

All I can say is WOW! I've never heard this kind of answer from a Xian. I've never heard the deity's omniscience explained in this way. Is this interpretation of the deity's insight universally accepted by the Xian community?

Hmm..allow me to correct myself, I suppose no view is universally accepted by all Xian persuasions. I sometimes get bogged down by all the differences, great and small, between the faiths.

So, you're saying that the deity does allow for some amount of free will (sort of like the small area outside of your car that the mirrors don't cover), but, ultimately one is screwed if that 'free will is not exercised to the deity's satisfaction. Am I correct?

 

[Blessed-one]

If God knows what decisions a person will make throughout their life, then why does He create souls that He knows are going to go to hell?

we were created to be keeper of the earth, look at Genesis. If not for Adam and Eve, who disobeyed and ate from the tree of life, sin wouldn't have entered the world. We may be in the garden of Eden now, not having worry whether we're going to hell or not.

but, ultimately one is screwed if that 'free will is not exercised to the deity's satisfaction. Am I correct?

we do find from time to time, that it'll be much easier if we just followed His instructions. Say, we're in the school learning english, God is the teacher. If we didn't listen to Him and did things our way, do you think we'll come out speaking in the right accent and writing with correct spelling and grammers?
oh yeah, we can choose not to listen to Him, but because He wants to help us, He's offering to help. You can reject Him or otherwise.. it all comes back to the issue of free will and faith.

 

[sbbqb7n16]

God would have to know the future. How else do you explain.."before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows you will deny me 3 times." And Jesus told the disciples on numerous occasions what would have to happen to Him later on. Plus He told the prophets what would happen. So how could He not know the future?

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by Blessed-one
we were created to be keeper of the earth, look at Genesis. If not for Adam and Eve, who disobeyed and ate from the tree of life, sin wouldn't have entered the world. We may be in the garden of Eden now, not having worry whether we're going to hell or not.

You misunderstand my question, perhaps I was not totally clear. Assuming that God wants everyone to go to heaven, and assuming He has the power to create or not create as He wishes, why does He create souls that He knows will suffer in hell for eternity?

 

[cb]

Originally posted by DrLao
You misunderstand my question, perhaps I was not totally clear. Assuming that God wants everyone to go to heaven, and assuming He has the power to create or not create as He wishes, why does He create souls that He knows will suffer in hell for eternity?

 

Good question.   I wish I had the answer to that.  I have a few Ideas, tho.  Perhaps it has to do with the end result.  Remember the movie, "It's a Wonderful Life!"?   We see in that movie what happens when, one person, no matter how miserable, is taken out of existence.  Look how much everything changes!   Perhaps, in some strange way, if one person that chooses to go to Hell is not born,  then 50 people, who would not have gone if this person was alive, would.   Perhaps that sounds lame, but its a possiblity. Perhaps God thinks your existence is so valuable, that its more valuable than you choosing not be with him. Another idea is: When we look at the ancestory of Jesus, in that line we see people that were extraordinarly evil.   There is an idea called "traducianism" which basically says that parents create the soul in the act of reproduction.  This way, you could not have had different parents.  This would mean that God would have to take into account and entire ancestoral chain and not just a specific person.  So, if the evil people in Jesus' chain were not born, then perhaps the good ones would not have been either.

I know none of these "explain" why.  I don't know "why".   I do know that God is good.  And He wouldn't do anything evil.  Sometimes when I don't have all the answers, I have to put my faith in that.

 

[Blessed-one]

but we weren't created to go to hell! only the entrance of sin has changed the future course of human race, that was why i used Adam and Eve as an example. Do u see my point?

I know none of these "explain" why.  I don't know "why".   I do know that God is good.  And He wouldn't do anything evil.  Sometimes when I don't have all the answers, I have to put my faith in that.

aye cb, that's exactly the right attitude! else why would we need to have faith in Him?

 

[LouisBooth]

Yup, God knows it.

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by cb
Good question. I wish I had the answer to that. I have a few Ideas, tho. Perhaps it has to do with the end result. Remember the movie, "It's a Wonderful Life!"? We see in that movie what happens when, one person, no matter how miserable, is taken out of existence. Look how much everything changes! Perhaps, in some strange way, if one person that chooses to go to Hell is not born, then 50 people, who would not have gone if this person was alive, would. Perhaps that sounds lame, but its a possiblity.

I'm not sure how a hell-bound person could save anyone, but I would think that God could manage it so that wouldn't happen.

Perhaps God thinks your existence is so valuable, that its more valuable than you choosing not be with him.

But this existence is flawed, fallen, sin-filled, etc. How can there be anything here for us? How can there be any point to this life if it doesn't end with going to heaven?

Another idea is: When we look at the ancestory of Jesus, in that line we see people that were extraordinarly evil. There is an idea called "traducianism" which basically says that parents create the soul in the act of reproduction. This way, you could not have had different parents. This would mean that God would have to take into account and entire ancestoral chain and not just a specific person. So, if the evil people in Jesus' chain were not born, then perhaps the good ones would not have been either.

This isn't about good and evil. Everyone is evil according to Christianity. Without Jesus we're all going to hell, no matter how "good" we are. And besides, God makes the rules. If He wanted a certain person to be born, He could just have that person be born.

I know none of these "explain" why. I don't know "why". I do know that God is good. And He wouldn't do anything evil. Sometimes when I don't have all the answers, I have to put my faith in that.

Fair enough. I too find it incongruous that a supposedly all-powerful deity "wants" something, and then doesn't get it.

 

[Blessed-one]

we've all been debating about some stuff that God cannot do, such as, He cannot be evil, He cannot tolerate sin.

This isn't about good and evil. Everyone is evil according to Christianity. Without Jesus we're all going to hell, no matter how "good" we are. And besides, God makes the rules. If He wanted a certain person to be born, He could just have that person be born.

but we're given a free will whether to choose Him or not. We're given a free will whether to sin or not.

Fair enough. I too find it incongruous that a supposedly all-powerful deity "wants" something, and then doesn't get it.

as He loves us, He wouldn't want to force us into a relationship that we don't want to. It's all a matter of free will, but then u may say if He didn't force us into believing Him, we'd all go to hell. The thing is, believing in Him brings about an inner change of life, turning from bad to good (as we're all sinners). Conclusion is, it can't be forced, we're to willingly accept Him.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Read my thread in this forum called "Self Torment - Part 2"

It answers the original question and well as the one that DrLao brought up!

 

[DrLao]

Originally posted by Blessed-one
but we're given a free will whether to choose Him or not. We're given a free will whether to sin or not.

We are not given free will whether to sin or not. We are born into sin. Original sin. We cannot escape that. If we could choose whether to sin or not we would not need Jesus.

Is there any scriptural support for "free will." If God knows us before we are in the womb, and He creates us, then He must know when He creates us whether we will accept Him. So, He knows who is going to hell as He creates. Therefore, God creates souls whose purpose is going to hell.

as He loves us, He wouldn't want to force us into a relationship that we don't want to. It's all a matter of free will, but then u may say if He didn't force us into believing Him, we'd all go to hell. The thing is, believing in Him brings about an inner change of life, turning from bad to good (as we're all sinners). Conclusion is, it can't be forced, we're to willingly accept Him.

If God creates us and knows whether we will accept Him or not, then there is no free will. God is either totally in charge or He isn't. He is either all powerful or He isn't.