Does God Kill?

[HoT-MetaL]

Ive just been thinking about this, and I cant remember whether or not there are scriptural examples.

Would God kill somebody?

Does God kill, if circumstances require it?

God Bless, metal.

 

[KleinerApfel]

A few spring to mind:

Genesis - Lot's wife, tuned to a pillar of salt.

Exodus - The plague of the firstborn in Egypt.

A whole army that had been attacking the Israelites was found inexplicably dead. Can't remember where to find that one.

2 Samuel 12 - David's son by Bathsheba is struck with an illness culminating in death.

Acts 5 - Ananias and Sapphira struck dead for attempting to deceive the Holy Spirit.

Acts 12 - Herod accepts worship from the people, and God strikes him down dead.

There are probably others.

Hebrews 10 -
26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[4] and again, "The Lord will judge his people."[5] 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But a beautiful thing to fall into His grace.
We need to remember that we are kept from such a fate only by That grace. How good He is to us.

God bless you, Susana

 

[HoT-MetaL]

Of Course, annanias and saphira... now i think about it, didnt God send an angel to kill moses, cos of his disobedience in circumsising his son?

Thanks for the scriptures!

God Bless, metal.

 

[KleinerApfel]

didnt God send an angel to kill moses, cos of his disobedience in circumsising his son? QUOTE]

Yes - good job his wife was there to help him out!

 

[daveleau]

1 John 5:16 sin unto death

Many believe that this verse is an extension of God's dealings with Christians who sin found in Hebrews 12. Hebrews 12 gives us several things that God does:
1- Holy Spirit tells us we are sinning and to stop
2- God chastens us (small punishment)
3- God scourges us (bigger punishment)
4- God brings us home early (1 John 5:16)

So, yes, God does kill the a Christian who is sinning. Nothing can take away the blood of Jesus, but God can bring you home early if you will not follow His Will. It is similar to going to a birthday party of a friend with your dad. You misbehave and your dad tells you to stop. Then if you don't obey, he makes you sit in the corner. Then if you don't obey, you lose some privilege. Then your dad takes you home because you will not behave.

 

[HoT-MetaL]

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

I had a mate called Luke, who was always a v. strong family friend. Eventually he began to come to church and gave his life to the lord. Early in his christian walk he had a car crash and died.

On the same night my Mum believed that God had taken him because he couldnt 'walk the walk.'

From your replies, it soudns like she could have been right.

God Bless, metal.

 

[muffler dragon]

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

I had a mate called Luke, who was always a v. strong family friend. Eventually he began to come to church and gave his life to the lord. Early in his christian walk he had a car crash and died.

On the same night my Mum believed that God had taken him because he couldnt 'walk the walk.'

From your replies, it soudns like she could have been right.

God Bless, metal.

Be very careful with that type of judgment.

It could just as easily be said that his work was done and that the L-rd was calling him home.

It's better to stay humble and reserve judgment to G-d and Him alone; then to speculate about why something happened to someone.

I find this to be the same in the opposite direction. People will accuse another of not having enough faith, because G-d didn't move in the manner in which requested. The Will of G-d is not something we will ever understand. We only hope to operate within it by the grace of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ps139]

I know I'll be unpopular for it, but I do not believe that God literally killed people, especially innocent babies, in the OT. I think the Hebrews saw God's hand in EVERYTHING, when it was not in reality there. It was a totally different worldview than that of the Western (Greek) one.

 

[Daedalus]

I know I'll be unpopular for it, but I do not believe that God literally killed people, especially innocent babies, in the OT. I think the Hebrews saw God's hand in EVERYTHING, when it was not in reality there. It was a totally different worldview than that of the Western (Greek) one.

Ummm... you're trying to defend God for something that He didn't do wrong.
He can kill whoever He wants; after all, He is the one that decides when it's the time someone can die.

 

[Dad Ernie]

I know I'll be unpopular for it, but I do not believe that God literally killed people, especially innocent babies, in the OT. I think the Hebrews saw God's hand in EVERYTHING, when it was not in reality there. It was a totally different worldview than that of the Western (Greek) one.

Greetings PS139,

I personally think that "God's hand is in EVERYTHING". Was it then Peter who killed Ananias and Sapphira? Was it Moses that killed the tribe of Korah?

Numbers 16:31-32 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: 32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

When Josephus overlooked the destruction of Jersusalem, his comments were to the effect that "No one but God could have done this."

How about the "great flood" of Noah's day? No children? No babies?

Perhaps it was just "mother earth" who got tired of so much sin?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[ps139]

Ummm... you're trying to defend God for something that He didn't do wrong.
He can kill whoever He wants; after all, He is the one that decides when it's the time someone can die.

Can God will evil??
Thats the queston. My answer: no. And I think its blasphemous to say otherwise.

 

[ps139]

Greetings PS139,

I personally think that "God's hand is in EVERYTHING". Was it then Peter who killed Ananias and Sapphira? Was it Moses that killed the tribe of Korah?

Numbers 16:31-32 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them: 32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.

When Josephus overlooked the destruction of Jersusalem, his comments were to the effect that "No one but God could have done this."

How about the "great flood" of Noah's day? No children? No babies?

Perhaps it was just "mother earth" who got tired of so much sin?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Dad Ernie,

I'd prefer not to try to analyze each occurrence of this question. But I do not believe that God wills evil. I'm not denying that these things happened, but I do not believe the Hebrews were historians in the Western sense.

 

[Nirvana*]

well according to the Bible destroyed the whole town where Lot lived (relative of abraham) God destroyed it and killed all the immoral people of the town. Abraham asked for God not to destroy it but it happened.
there you go...
Nirvana

 

[Michelina]

I know I'll be unpopular for it, but I do not believe that God literally killed people, especially innocent babies, in the OT. I think the Hebrews saw God's hand in EVERYTHING, when it was not in reality there. It was a totally different worldview than that of the Western (Greek) one.

I agree in principle with what you say. Ps139 about the Hebrew mind and that "Hebrews saw God's hand in EVERYTHING, when it was not in reality there. It was a totally different worldview than that of the Western (Greek) one".

But it isn't possible to evade the fact that God has a right to end any life and did so on occasion in the OT and NT and at any other time it pleases His Sovereign will. Not every instance of Divine Interaction with Man can be ascribed to the Hebraicisms in SS.

So, while I agree generally with your observation, I think it is not precise enough and slightly overstates your position.

 

[TugOwar]

ps139, it is true that God is love, the most pure love possible IMO. But He is also Just and He also has a perfect plan for this world that must be seen to completion. This plan includes death, so even if it's indirectly it's still the hand of God at work. But honestly I believe as those who posted above me, God has killed.

Think of it this way. God will sentence a sinful soul to eternal hell, but he won't kill this pitiful, temporary, weak, useless physical body? Doesn't figure does it?

 

[Dad Ernie]

I'd prefer not to try to analyze each occurrence of this question. But I do not believe that God wills evil. I'm not denying that these things happened, but I do not believe the Hebrews were historians in the Western sense.

Greeings ps139,

How do you respond to these verses:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[daveleau]

Death is not evil. If we think of death as evil, what are we relating to death? Pain, suffering, damnation? Or are we relating it to Heaven, Salvation, riches and being with God? It is human to think of death as being bad, evil or something horrible. In reality, it is something wonderful and awesome, if you are Christian.

We should never judge whether someone could or could not walk the Walk. God has a plan in all things. The lesson of that person's death could have been that he was blessed to have heard the Message before his death. It could have been a bell toll for someone who had not accepted Christ and was thinking- ah, I'll do it later. There is a purpose in everything. Every time someone dies, it does not mean that they were taken home early or punished. It is one possibility among millions of other possiblities. This is exactly what Jesus was talking about when He said that we should not judge. This verse is often misquoted, and often it is misquoted by Christian antagonists. But, the true meaning of not judging is not determining whether someone is damned or not because of a certain thing. We can judge actions as right or wrong, but we are to NEVER judge whether a person is good or bad. You were right in thinking that your mother's idea was wrong. Don't let these correct interpretations make an incorrect side-bar theological idea form in your mind.

God bless you all,
Dave

 

[raptor13]

Greeings ps139,

How do you respond to these verses:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

God allows and permits evil for the sake of a greater good. Remember, it was Satan who does the evil to Job, not God. The same goes for Isaiah 45:7. God brought light out of darkness, just as he makes peace out of woe [my bible says "woe", not "evil].

If God really was the author of evil, this sorta violates the "God is all good" rule, which then brings all of Christianity in question.

 

[ps139]

Greeings ps139,

How do you respond to these verses:

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

About Job - do you think that God makes bets with satan? I don't. This is a story - a divine truth behind it that he who perseveres to the end will be rewarded. God does punish, but he does not create evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Like raptor said, "evil" is just one of many translations of a Hebrew word. God permits evil, He does not create it. The Hebrew word can mean anything bad, and in the context of this verse, the subject is natural phenomena, such as storms etc. This is not a moral evil, it may be a cause of distress or suffering, but not a moral evil. See here for a great explanation of that verse, from the CARM website: http://www.carm.org/diff/Isa_45_7.htm

 

[Dad Ernie]

This is not a moral evil, it may be a cause of distress or suffering, but not a moral evil.

Greetings PS139,

Aren't you now modifying what you said earlier by saying "moral" evil? Does "moral" even apply to God? I do agree that God is "love", and there is NO sin in Him. I also believe that He uses the creation itself to bring about "evil" upon those who ARE evil. But as the First Cause, He IS ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING. Our perspectives are different from God's. As was pointed out, He MUST be a "fair" judge and thus creates evil to come against the evil.

As for Job, I see this as an accurate story or account of God's dealings in the spiritual realm as well as in the events of this mortal world. The inclusion of it in the Bible has affected everyone who has read it in a very serious way. It reflects God's total sovereignty over the affairs of angels and of men. It is also a story of a righteous man who said "Though he slay me, yet shall I live." What greater evil can come against us than even our own death in a very horrible way. But from God's perspective, He allows events to come upon us that might even kill us, but it is just to take us home to be with Him.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie