Does God change depending on circumstances (or, are prophecies contingent?)

[rnmomof7]

I believe God doesn’t change. But situations can change and then there can be different solutions. I don’t know about your situation, what is the correct explanation. But maybe it is not now right time for the job, maybe it is later. Anyway, I think it is always good to love others and do the best you can do at this moment.

If God is omniscient He is never "surprised", we are never in a situation that God did not plan, nor their not a "solution " that God did not plan ... I think we sometimes stress over "is this Gods plan" when if you take it, it is Gods plan, if you refuse it that too is Gods plan .. We need to rest in Him

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

And if you had faith in the beginning but now don't? Does that make one faithless, or was the original faith not faith?

According to scripture those who are His persevere until the end so in that scenario that faith was never a biblical saving faith that endures.

hope this helps !!!

 

[rnmomof7]

Another possibility. Although I must say, having God keep you in limbo for years seems a bit odd. It's all rather easier said than done. Especially because a wife and kids need stability. Abraham may be a good example, but his circumstances seem extraordinary. In our case, we can't commit to many things because there is no clarity on when the day will come. My kids are even scared to make friends.

Of course, though, your suggestion is a good possibility to be added to the list.

So many of the OT prophesies had a double meaning a now and then ...

 

[1213]

If God is omniscient He is never "surprised", we are never in a situation that God did not plan, nor their not a "solution " that God did not plan ... I think we sometimes stress over "is this Gods plan" when if you take it, it is Gods plan, if you refuse it that too is Gods plan .. We need to rest in Him

I agree that God is not surprised. Also, I think God’s plan is that we love others, because it is His commandment. I don’t think we need to imagine other plans. If God has another plan, I believe He will announce it clearly and we don’t have to make guesses.

 

[HatGuy]

Perhaps a first step is partnering with a church in Philly, one of the churches you visited. A partnership with a church is a good step as they know the terrain and greatest need. If well enough you can go on a site visits ask which churches are good planters and help support a plant. You would provide them a launch point in South Africa for them to send missionaries and you could in exchange send some of the younger folk in your church to the US as missionaries as well.

This way you can continue your advancements in SA gaining resources to help the plant in Philly and help the Philly missionaries that come to you.

Thanks mate - great ideas.

I think the post about timing hit me in the jugular the most. As a thinking sort of person I'm always asking "when", "how", and "why". But God doesn't want these responses. He wants a "Yes Lord"

 

[redleghunter]

Thanks mate - great ideas.

I think the post about timing hit me in the jugular the most. As a thinking sort of person I'm always asking "when", "how", and "why". But God doesn't want these responses. He wants a "Yes Lord"

Indeed brother. We all seem to think something is going to happen right away.

A couple of points. First does Jesus want us to act out alone? He did leave us with a church and brothers and sisters as part of that church to shoulder our burdens.

Secondly, think of the patience of Joseph. He knew God would deliver him but not the way he probably thought. It took years and years before Joseph was reunited with his father and family.

 

[HatGuy]

Indeed brother. We all seem to think something is going to happen right away.

A couple of points. First does Jesus want us to act out alone? He did leave us with a church and brothers and sisters as part of that church to shoulder our burdens.

Secondly, think of the patience of Joseph. He knew God would deliver him but not the way he probably thought. It took years and years before Joseph was reunited with his father and family.

Ah man, Joseph. What a challenge!!

Church planting is such an odd thing. You really feel like you're out in the front of the battle. I'm thankful that I have a supportive network of church friends and mentors, but even so, none of them can live it for me. Planting is a huge challenge to your theology, character, etc.!

 

[redleghunter]

Ah man, Joseph. What a challenge!!

Church planting is such an odd thing. You really feel like you're out in the front of the battle. I'm thankful that I have a supportive network of church friends and mentors, but even so, none of them can live it for me. Planting is a huge challenge to your theology, character, etc.!

I’m in a church plant right now. It was “birthed” from our home church. It was one city over unlike the challenges you face but understand the various issues. Understand you want to the plant to be strong at the start. For us it is because everyone from the home church made a committed decision to go and signed up for duties to keep it running. The main challenge is adding to the plant. We started in July of this year and have added 5 families. Given our location we have had interested some of the locals that they now have a church in their neighborhood. We are active in the community and do support with volunteers local community and city projects.

We have been asked for things like volunteer coaches for local city sports teams when they come up short on volunteers. Such has helped us build a good rapport when we go before the city council for building permits.

 

[nolidad]

According to scripture those who are His persevere until the end so in that scenario that faith was never a biblical saving faith that endures.

hope this helps !!!

Sorry but that is a verse pulled out of its context and given a definition it was not intended to convey!

Its context is the tribulation of the Apostles in their day as they traverses Israel.

Matthew 10:5-23 King James Version (KJV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[HatGuy]

I’m in a church plant right now. It was “birthed” from our home church. It was one city over unlike the challenges you face but understand the various issues. Understand you want to the plant to be strong at the start. For us it is because everyone from the home church made a committed decision to go and signed up for duties to keep it running. The main challenge is adding to the plant. We started in July of this year and have added 5 families. Given our location we have had interested some of the locals that they now have a church in their neighborhood. We are active in the community and do support with volunteers local community and city projects.

We have been asked for things like volunteer coaches for local city sports teams when they come up short on volunteers. Such has helped us build a good rapport when we go before the city council for building permits.

So awesome man, well done! It's both intense and fun at the same time - so stoked to hear you guys are moving forward in such a positive way. I'll be praying for you guys!

A new visa option has opened up for us this week - may be good news and less complicated than what we were trying before. Going to investigate it - and feeling much more full of faith.

Thanks everyone for your encouragements!

 

[PuerAzaelis]

Ah, the immutability of God.

Article 1: Whether God is altogether immutable?

Objection 1: It seems that God is not altogether immutable. For whatever moves itself is in some way mutable. But, as Augustine says (Gen. ad lit viii, 20), "The Creator Spirit moves Himself neither by time, nor by place." Therefore God is in some way mutable.

Objection 2: Further, it is said of Wisdom, that "it is more mobile than all things active [Vulg.'mobilior']" (Wis. 7:24). But God is wisdom itself; therefore God is movable.

Objection 3: Further, to approach and to recede signify movement. But these are said of God in Scripture, "Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you" (James 4:8). Therefore God is mutable.

On the contrary, It is written, "I am the Lord, and I change not" (Malachi 3:6).

I answer that, From what precedes, it is shown that God is altogether immutable. First, because it was shown above that there is some first being, whom we call God; and that this first being must be pure act, without the admixture of any potentiality, for the reason that, absolutely, potentiality is posterior to act. Now everything which is in any way changed, is in some way in potentiality. Hence it is evident that it is impossible for God to be in any way changeable. Secondly, because everything which is moved, remains as it was in part, and passes away in part; as what is moved from whiteness to blackness, remains the same as to substance; thus in everything which is moved, there is some kind of composition to be found. But it has been shown above (Question [3], Article [7]) that in God there is no composition, for He is altogether simple. Hence it is manifest that God cannot be moved. Thirdly, because everything which is moved acquires something by its movement, and attains to what it had not attained previously. But since God is infinite, comprehending in Himself all the plenitude of perfection of all being, He cannot acquire anything new, nor extend Himself to anything whereto He was not extended previously. Hence movement in no way belongs to Him. So, some of the ancients, constrained, as it were, by the truth, decided that the first principle was immovable.

Reply to Objection 1: Augustine there speaks in a similar way to Plato, who said that the first mover moves Himself; calling every operation a movement, even as the acts of understanding, and willing, and loving, are called movements. Therefore because God understands and loves Himself, in that respect they said that God moves Himself, not, however, as movement and change belong to a thing existing in potentiality, as we now speak of change and movement.

Reply to Objection 2: Wisdom is called mobile by way of similitude, according as it diffuses its likeness even to the outermost of things; for nothing can exist which does not proceed from the divine wisdom by way of some kind of imitation, as from the first effective and formal principle; as also works of art proceed from the wisdom of the artist. And so in the same way, inasmuch as the similitude of the divine wisdom proceeds in degrees from the highest things, which participate more fully of its likeness, to the lowest things which participate of it in a lesser degree, there is said to be a kind of procession and movement of the divine wisdom to things; as when we say that the sun proceeds to the earth, inasmuch as the ray of light touches the earth. In this way Dionysius (Coel. Hier. i) expounds the matter, that every procession of the divine manifestation comes to us from the movement of the Father of light.

Reply to Objection 3: These things are said of God in Scripture metaphorically. For as the sun is said to enter a house, or to go out, according as its rays reach the house, so God is said to approach to us, or to recede from us, when we receive the influx of His goodness, or decline from Him.

ST Ia Q. 9 — Aquinas 101

 

[PuerAzaelis]

IMMUTABILITY OF GOD:

... Scholastic theologians of the Middle Ages gave further philosophical depth to the notion of God’s immutability. St. THOMAS AQUINAS offers three arguments, metaphysical in nature, that establish that God is immutable (Summa theologiae, 1.9.1). These are based upon understanding divinity as pure act, as simple and as omniperfect. All change is incompatible with these three concepts. First, anything that undergoes change must be able to change, that is, it must be in potency with regard to what it can actually become (see MOTION; BECOMING). Thus creatures, while they exist and so are in act, possess the potential to change either accidentally (i.e., acquire new actuality) or substantially (i.e., become something else). God, unlike creatures, is being itself (ipsum esse). His very nature is the act ‘‘to be,’’ and so he is pure act (actus purus). Thus God possesses no interior potential to become more of what he is. All of his attributes are perfectly in act, and thus he is perfect wisdom in act, perfect love in act, perfect knowledge in act. To say then that God is immutable is to say that he does not undergo change, as do creatures and to accentuate that he is perfect in every way and that no change could make him more perfect. Second, Aquinas argues that since creatures are composite beings, they can undergo change and mutation, again either accidental or substantial (see MATTER AND FORM). However, God is perfectly simple, for he is simply pure being itself and thus is simply pure act; therefore he cannot undergo change. Third, following upon the first argument, Aquinas argues that change within creatures testifies that they are not perfect for through change they acquire new perfection. However, since God is pure act he possesses all goods perfectly and thus is in no need to change in order to actualize further perfection.

https://cvdvn.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/new-catholic-encyclopedia-vol-7.pdf

 

[LoveConquers]

I dont have the answer but I do think of something when I read the posts that say God will never change. I agree, He does not. However He does test, just as He did with Abraham and His son. He told Abraham to offer His son, and as He was about to do it, He changed what He was asking once He saw Abraham's faith.