Does God allow abortions?

humblewatchman · Jan 13, 2019

God gave us free will through the grace of Christ (Romans explains that and proves that it is through grace, not works) We are living from grace to grace. He gave us guidelines to live by, yet knowing Him personally, He is not a ridged unloving God. He takes each case individually and looks deeply into the heart of the woman for her motive. The early stage fetus is not a human, contrary to what religious zealots say. According to the obstetrician I used to worked for, we have miscarriages all the time and dont even know it . We label our period as "being late". Ecclesiastes says, no one knows when the spirit enters into the womb of a woman. No one, means nobody...period. We cannot possibly know, or claim to know, when that moment is. We do not make rules for our beloved sisters, we follow grace, and leave personal decisions to that person and her Lord Jesus.

Valtan1 · Jan 13, 2019

No.

Exodus 20:13 (KJV)

"Thou shalt not kill."

Or in (MEV)

"You shall not murder."

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 13, 2019

humblewatchman said:
We do not make rules

Yahweh clearly spoke His Rules. The penalty for transgressing them is death.

Zetetica · Jan 13, 2019

Swan7 said:
You are absolutely right on that and that is the basics of scripture that some don't even heed. There is no love in someone for holding back scripture of someone genuinely wanting to learn and discern. You are right in your intent that we ought not to believe what people say, but to test their spirit.

I will give you scripture with what they were holding back from you:
Luke 10:16

If Paul is rejected, they reject the Spirit of God within him. This is why we must cling to God's teaching so we may have discernment of those who are with us (Him) or against us/ God's church (Him). I'm using a reflection of what Jesus said here: John 14:11 and John 14:20

May God bless you, sister! Also from Canada!

Thank you, Swan.

Zetetica · Jan 13, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
We are supposed to obey the Father in all thoughts, words and actions.

He knows who is pure in heart, and who is opposed to the Apostles teachings, and
we are not supposed to guess that we know.

Likewise we are not supposed to speak on or own, but only as the Father directs us - regardless what anyone asks, including if we are taken to court - it is to be the Father granting the words to speak, thus the Father speaking and not us, as Jesus said , taught, and did.

If you have trouble, which is obvious you don't now, accessing the search on the internet, I would have told you without you having to search.

It is easier than turning a page in the Bible to do the search you were given freely.

The only reason I could think of why you won't, unless you are handicapped, and then I apologize ahead of time (message me then and I will do all I can whenever you need help),
the only reason otherwise
is that you for some reason have rejected Paul of other Apostles, have rejected Jesus and rejected God. I am not saying this is why,
but it is the first reason that comes to mind as why (because others on the forum have rejected God, Jesus, the Apostles and His Word, and they are sometimes not willing to admit this) ....

Your words are full of judgment. I only found Christ around five or so months ago; before that I was a Satanist.

I did study scripture during that time, as theology was an interest.

You make me sad.

His student · Jan 13, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Obeying government takes precedent over the written code in scripture.

Say what?????

RDKirk said:
There is no law requiring abortion.

Right on brother. The solution to the OP's dilemma couldn't be more simple to understand than that.

SkyWriting · Jan 13, 2019

Zetetic Woman said:
This is all I can find and it doesn't seem to apply to Paul.

Luke 10:16 KJV

(Jesus in Red)

He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

8“If you enter a town and it welcomes you, eat whatever is set before you. 9Heal the sick, and tell them, ‘The Kingdom of God is near you now.’10But if a town refuses to welcome you, go out into its streets and say, 11‘We wipe even the dust of your town from our feet to show that we have abandoned you to your fate. And know this—the Kingdom of God is near!’ 12I assure you, even wicked Sodom will be better off than such a town on judgment day.

13“What sorrow awaits you, Korazin and Bethsaida! For if the miracles I did in you had been done in wicked Tyre and Sidon, their people would have repented of their sins long ago, clothing themselves in burlap and throwing ashes on their heads to show their remorse. 14Yes, Tyre and Sidon will be better off on judgment day than you. 15And you people of Capernaum, will you be honored in heaven? No, you will go down to the place of the dead.b”

16Then he said to the disciples, “Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting God, who sent me.”

17When the seventy-two disciples returned, they joyfully reported to him, “Lord, even the demons obey us when we use your name!”

18“Yes,” he told them, “I saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning! 19Look, I have given you authority over all the power of the enemy, and you can walk among snakes and scorpions and crush them. Nothing will injure you. 20But don’t rejoice because evil spirits obey you; rejoice because your names are registered in heaven.”

SkyWriting · Jan 13, 2019

His student said:
Say what?????
Right on brother. The solution to the OP's dilemma couldn't be more simple to understand than that.

Thanks. I had no dilemma.

SkyWriting · Jan 13, 2019

yeshuaslavejeff said:
That would be messed up, and not right.You posted that you are living in daily ongoing sin.You said you don't have to repent, and no one can make you repent.You even posted who you learned that heresy from (last week you posted it ).ergo, without repentance, you remain deceived, and unforgiven, and should be 'shunned', put out of the fellowship,but wait! you already were put of of fellowship, voluntarily you said, you don't go any more, anywhere ......... unless memory is failing me.... it was last week after all.. or was it two weeks ?

God judges my heart, not my posts. Take care Jeffie!

SkyWriting · Jan 13, 2019

SkyWriting said: ↑
Obeying government takes precedent over the written code in scripture.

His student said:
Say what?????

God has pronounced the written code of conduct to be obsolete and replaced by the New Covenant in Jesus. Jesus, at his arrest and trial both confessed and lived the reality that the Father was in full control of what local law was responsible for acting on.

10 Pilate therefore saith unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? Knowest thou not that I have power to release thee, and have power to crucify thee?

11 Jesus answered him, Thou wouldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath greater sin.
Additional scripture is noted here:
Today at 12:18 PM#33

SkyWriting · Jan 13, 2019

Blade said:
No.. never has. He hates sin. What each of you do..every sin.. GOD never allowed it. YOU alone with no other sorry.. NO ONE controls you.

So.. if HE freely forgave you.. what YOU NOW DO...you freely make the choice to forgive those that never sinned against you. CAREFUL where and how you walk here. So easy to write things.. but know the Father will judge us how we judge..the same way we do it.. we dont know the heart.. so much pain in this.. and the enemy really comes in hard... uses the world and Christians

No Sin? Then no need for a savior.
Anyone who failed the written code at one point
is guilty of the entire law. Grace is our only salvation.

SkyWriting · Jan 13, 2019

humblewatchman said:
God gave us free will through the grace of Christ (Romans explains that and proves that it is through grace, not works) We are living from grace to grace. He gave us guidelines to live by, yet knowing Him personally, He is not a ridged unloving God. He takes each case individually and looks deeply into the heart of the woman for her motive. The early stage fetus is not a human, contrary to what religious zealots say. According to the obstetrician I used to worked for, we have miscarriages all the time and dont even know it . We label our period as "being late". Ecclesiastes says, no one knows when the spirit enters into the womb of a woman. No one, means nobody...period. We cannot possibly know, or claim to know, when that moment is. We do not make rules for our beloved sisters, we follow grace, and leave personal decisions to that person and her Lord Jesus.

I have never claimed that the unborn are not human. And it is true
that God takes far more unborn than abortion does.

But let's consider our new imagined country where every pregnancy is under full control of the state (or the church) starting at conception to ensure that a death does not occur. It that what Pro-Life is shooting for? If so, they should say so up front.

Complete monitoring by the PL patrol after conception and we will assume they are serious about prenatal care, so full financial assistance and health through PLIncorporated is a given. So I'm thinking mandatory roundup of every pregnant female to be kept at some compound, for the baby's safety.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 13, 2019

SkyWriting said:
God judges my heart, not my posts. Take care Jeffie!

Out of the abundance (or darkness) of the heart, man posts. (what is in the heart is out in the open),
Yes, God has judged what is in your heart. For sure as He Says Clearly throughout His Word.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 13, 2019

SkyWriting said:
And it is true
that God takes far more unborn than abortion does.

No. That is not true at all.

Foxfyre · Jan 13, 2019

SkyWriting said:
You be the judge:

1 Peter 2:13-17
Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

and now:
New York State Assembly Passes Third Trimester Abortion Bill

Apparently he does allow abortions since there are many hundreds of thousands of them in the United States alone every single year.

The question is does God approve of abortions? It is hard to make a case for that via the scriptures since apparently that was not part of the culture reflected in the Old and New Testament manuscripts. But believing that life begins with conception, and believing God has a purpose for each and every life, I can't believe he condones abortion or is happy about it.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 13, 2019

Without justice, there would be no mercy or righteousness or love.
God is Perfect, as is His Word and His Instruction, His Wisdom , for all.

Always, always, test using His Word. His Word is Faithful and Truth.
Anything opposed to His Word, any heresy, and sin promotion, leads to destruction. His Word is the Standard for little children , young adults, mid-adults, old adults - EVERYONE.

Deuteronomy 32:4

“He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.”

King James Version (KJV)

Study Bible
I Will Exalt You, My God and King
…16You open Your hand and satisfy the desire of every living thing. 17The LORD is righteous in all His ways and kind in all His deeds. 18The LORD is near to all who call on Him, to all who call out to Him in truth.…
Berean Study Bible · Download

Zetetic Woman said:
Your words are full of judgment. I only found Christ around five or so months ago; before that I was a Satanist.
I did study scripture during that time, as theology was an interest.
.

A page full of references online, with different translations as examples to help understand (concerning all the Apostles and Prophets , vs those who rejected them, reject God)
2 Chronicles 36:16 But they mocked the messengers of God, despising His words and scoffing at His prophets, until the wrath of the LORD against His people was stirred up beyond remedy.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jan 13, 2019

QUOTE="Foxfyre, post: 73571099, member: 397806"]Apparently he does allow abortions since there are many hundreds of thousands of them in the United States alone every single year.

The question is does God approve of abortions? It is hard to make a case for that via the scriptures since apparently that was not part of the culture reflected in the Old and New Testament manuscripts. But believing that life begins with conception, and believing God has a purpose for each and every life, I can't believe he condones abortion or is happy about it.[/QUOTE
=====================================
He condemns it as murder, according to all His Word.

His student · Jan 13, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Thanks. I had no dilemma.

Then you've understood all along that the scriptures speaking of obeying the authorities didn't effect in any way our obligation to protect the innocent?

SkyWriting said:
.......Jesus, at his arrest and trial both confessed and lived the reality that the Father was in full control of what local law was responsible for acting on.

Are you saying that the local law was required to crucify Jesus and was responsible in the crucifixion of Jesus?

I believe the scriptures tell us that the authorities from Caiaphas to Pilot did it purely by choice for political reasons. (The same can be said for why the government allows abortion. by the way.)

The authorities do not take the life of the unborn. They allow it.

Your example sheds no light on the subject of the law vis-a-vis abortion.

God was indeed in full control at the crucifixion of Jesus.

God obviously allowed the murder of Jesus. That doesn't mean He condoned it.

God obviously allowed the holocaust. That doesn't mean He condoned it.

God obviously allows the murder of the unborn. That doesn't mean He condones it.

By the way - are the unborn fully human beings? Please answer in a straightforward way.

Thanks!

SkyWriting · Jan 13, 2019

His student said:
Then you've understood all along that the scriptures speaking of obeying the authorities didn't effect in any way our obligation to protect the innocent?

Are you saying that the local law was required to crucify Jesus and was responsible in the crucifixion of Jesus?

I believe the scriptures tell us that the authorities from Caiaphas to Pilot did it purely by choice for political reasons. (The same can be said for why the government allows abortion. by the way.)

The authorities do not take the life of the unborn. They allow it.

Your example sheds no light on the subject of the law vis-a-vis abortion.

God was indeed in full control at the crucifixion of Jesus.

God obviously allowed the murder of Jesus. That doesn't mean He condoned it.

God obviously allowed the holocaust. That doesn't mean He condoned it.

God obviously allows the murder of the unborn. That doesn't mean He condones it.

By the way - are the unborn fully human beings? Please answer in a straightforward way.

Thanks!

God plans and then executes every event and motion in the Cosmos.
There is no limit to the Fathers involvement in anything.

We are obligated to do what is right in our heart.
That still is light years from perfect, so we have the Grace of God for forgiveness.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Jan 13, 2019

Being subject to governing authorities does not mean we obey them in everything they do or commit. Lest you want to justify the Armenian Genocide, the Holocaust, Japanese war crimes and numerous other actions and laws that states have committed in violation of basic morality. This doesn't even make sense within the context of the bible where the bad Kings of Israel worshiped Pagan deities and flouted the law. It also makes further nonsense of Christian resistance to sacrificing to Caesar's genius or the gods.

I guess since it was the Roman law they should have done it.

Does God allow abortions?

Two greatest commandements are to love.

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