Does each human have a spirit?

[Cribstyl]

Yet he somehow is walking around the earth as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour...so how does that work? When exactly did he get locked up? Was it before or after the cross?

Understanding the bible helps Stryder. 2Pe 2:4¶For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Apparently, God has more restraint on the devil than you appear know about.
The devil does have control over evil spirits in high places to carry out his will in the earth.
We give in when we're tempted and commit sin.




We also can have power to defeat Him (them) in our lives.

Luk 10:18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


The power come through faith in God's word and belief in the name of Jesus.
God's word is the sword of the spirit, because knowing the truth is our only weapon.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

 

[Cribstyl]

No. God was talking about plain old death. That statement was made to Israel. And either way, first death, second death, if God says the soul will die, it can't be immortal.

With that logic Stryder, lets eat and drink for tomorrow we'll die.

Forgive me, but I'm not a NT only Christian. I believe the teachings in the OT are still valid as they were the teachings of the NT, simply expounded upon, in some cases.

As Gentiles who were outside God's covenants, we see where God was first Abraham's God, then He was the COI's God.
In the OT other nations seem like bait. Why? They degenerated from the image of God in which they were created. Not one man did right.
Yes, God had a plan in the works to save the world from the penalty of sin. It was promised but it did not materialized under the Old Covenent. Jesus was the fulfillment of God's plan. The New testament lays out the change we can believe. Now God has adopted each person individually.
He is our Father and personal God. He has annointed believers and given us His spirit and in Him we live. according to His word. Hello????

Come again? How can you understand the sentence if you don't understand the syntax? If He says "shall" it means future. That's it. I mean seriously. And like you said before, albeit out of context, Christ here, when he says "shall never die" is speaking about the second death. So if you believe in Christ and die, you go to sleep. Eternal life is yours at the resurrection.

If I said "you shall never go hungry' This mean from now and every future mealtime you will eat. Not that you will starve to death. If I say you shall never die... You want me to believe it means you will die and get up latter?
.....The scriptures tell me that flesh and blood is the corruption that we put off in death, it's end up in the dirt.
1Cr 15:50¶Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
If corruption (flesh and blood) does not put on incorruption what does?

 

[Cribstyl]

I see a 'fill in-the-blanks' and 'questioning God's word' type of teaching method, it gets people to arrive at doctrines not common in Christianity. If it's not God word, dont swallow.
Why not dwell on the foundation of only scriptures and set on it's doctrines?

Remember that God will hold us to His word, not what Crib, Tom, Vick and Mary reasoned that His word said.

 

[Cribstyl]

Mat 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus made it clear in this text above that each man has a soul, and our souls are not able to be killed until judgment and Hell.

You guys want to teach that we're simply body and breathe.


It seems clear that even devils know enough truth to tremble at their impending doom.

Some people believe heaven but make excuses about hell.

 

[Cribstyl]

Jesus raised Lazarus to show us the glory and power of God. This defied the norm and contradicted the application of some scriptures about the death.
God has the power of life and death in His hands. According to the bible angel are spirits made to be eternal. God designed the fires of Hell for the devil and His angels. The souls of many men will live there too.

 

[Stryder06]

Understanding the bible helps Stryder. 2Pe 2:4¶For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Apparently, God has more restraint on the devil than you appear know about.
The devil does have control over evil spirits in high places to carry out his will in the earth.
We give in when we're tempted and commit sin.

Understanding the bible does help, and I knew this was the text you were referring to. Does the text say that the devil is chained up in hell?

We also can have power to defeat Him (them) in our lives.

Luk 10:18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luk 10:19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Luk 10:20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


The power come through faith in God's word and belief in the name of Jesus.
God's word is the sword of the spirit, because knowing the truth is our only weapon.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

How does any of that answer my question of how the devil can be chained up while walking the earth simultaneously?

 

[Stryder06]

With that logic Stryder, lets eat and drink for tomorrow we'll die.

I'll pass thanks

As Gentiles who were outside God's covenants, we see where God was first Abraham's God, then He was the COI's God.
In the OT other nations seem like bait. Why? They degenerated from the image of God in which they were created. Not one man did right.
Yes, God had a plan in the works to save the world from the penalty of sin. It was promised but it did not materialized under the Old Covenent. Jesus was the fulfillment of God's plan. The New testament lays out the change we can believe. Now God has adopted each person individually.
He is our Father and personal God. He has annointed believers and given us His spirit and in Him we live. according to His word. Hello????

1st) Wha...
2nd) The NT doesn't lay out any change. The OT laid it out. The NT explained it to the hard hearts of the Jewish people, and the new converts from the Gentile nations.
3rd)How does any of this apply to my statement about not being a NT only christian?

If I said "you shall never go hungry' This mean from now and every future mealtime you will eat. Not that you will starve to death. If I say you shall never die... You want me to believe it means you will die and get up latter?
.....The scriptures tell me that flesh and blood is the corruption that we put off in death, it's end up in the dirt.
1Cr 15:50¶Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
If corruption (flesh and blood) does not put on incorruption what does?

That's exactly what it means. Christ said "even though..." Death is only a pause in life for the believer. God doesn't see the death of a believer as a period, but as a comma.

In regards to corruption: You're going to be resurrected will you not? Was Jesus resurrected with a physical body? Did he eat fish with his disciples? What you'll put off is this corrupted body, and what you'll put on is an incorruptible one.

 

[Stryder06]

Jesus raised Lazarus to show us the glory and power of God. This defied the norm and contradicted the application of some scriptures about the death.
God has the power of life and death in His hands. According to the bible angel are spirits made to be eternal. God designed the fires of Hell for the devil and His angels. The souls of many men will live there too.

If you die and go to heave, why bring the dead back to life? Seems cruel wouldn't you say?

In heaven Lazarus would have been free from sin, disease, etc. Bringing him back from heaven would have most assuredly put that man in a state of eternal depression and caused him to doubt God's love for him.

And why do you automatically associate immortality with a spirit? The Devil and his angels will not live in hell fire. They will be destroyed in it, along with sinners and the works of this world. "...it will leave them neither root nor branch"

 

[Stryder06]

Mat 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jesus made it clear in this text above that each man has a soul, and our souls are not able to be killed until judgment and Hell.

You guys want to teach that we're simply body and breathe.


It seems clear that even devils know enough truth to tremble at their impending doom.

Some people believe heaven but make excuses about hell.

First, you ought to note that Jesus says "Destroy" so that puts an end to the idea that your soul is eternal. Second, remember that breath is what gives life to the body. God is saying that man can't end your life eternally. God will restore to His faithful the breath of life. Those who are condemned to death in hell fire, will not have the breath of life restored to them, but will be gone forever.

 

[Cribstyl]

Originally Posted by Cribstyl

Understanding the bible helps Stryder. 2Pe 2:4¶For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Apparently, God has more restraint on the devil than you appear know about.
The devil does have control over evil spirits in high places to carry out his will in the earth.
We give in when we're tempted and commit sin.
​

Understanding the bible does help, and I knew this was the text you were referring to. Does the text say that the devil is chained up in hell?

Yes, it does, Apparently you dont consider the devil as an angel that sinned and was cast down in chains. I cant ignor or delete this clearly reenforced truth from Peter and Jude.

How does any of that answer my question of how the devil can be chained up while walking the earth simultaneously?

Anyone can understand that Paul did not contradict himself. Here he is speaking metaphorically. He is saying "the devil seems "AS" a roaring lion who seem on the prowl to devour everyone he can tempt to sin the world.

1Pe 5:8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


But we can resist him by holding on to the doctrine of faith.
1Pe 5:9Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Stryder, you often appear to be playing word games rather than applying scriptures to understanding.

If your application is correct, tell us what country that the devil is powerwalking, so we can avoid getting devoured.

 

[Cribstyl]

I'll pass thanks

Hey, it's your view that death of the flesh is final death. Good luck with that.

1st) Wha...
2nd) The NT doesn't lay out any change. The OT laid it out. The NT explained it to the hard hearts of the Jewish people, and the new converts from the Gentile nations.
3rd)How does any of this apply to my statement about not being a NT only christian?

The fact that God made covenants proves you wrong. The new covenant is mo betta than the old. Falsehood are dicovered in arguments against God's truths.

That's exactly what it means. Christ said "even though..." Death is only a pause in life for the believer. God doesn't see the death of a believer as a period, but as a comma.

Please, post scripture, we have enough prophetic metaphors to unscramble.

In regards to corruption: You're going to be resurrected will you not? Was Jesus resurrected with a physical body? Did he eat fish with his disciples? What you'll put off is this corrupted body, and what you'll put on is an incorruptible one.

Dont get it twisted Jesus resurrected in the same flesh that He died. No need to confuse the resurrection of Jesus with the resurection of the dead. It's bad and unnecessary commentary.

 

[Stryder06]

Hey, it's your view that death of the flesh is final death. Good luck with that.

Death is only final for the wicked.

The fact that God made covenants proves you wrong. The new covenant is mo betta than the old. Falsehood are dicovered in arguments against God's truths.

Where exactly does the new covenant talk about the nature of the soul? What changed in the covenants that made the word of the Patriarchs obsolete?

Please, post scripture, we have enough prophetic metaphors to unscramble.

You already provided the scripture, I was simply alluding back to it. Speaking of Lazarus:

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Examining this text one can see that (A) Martha knew her brother wasn't still alive, and (B) that Christ knew her brother wasn't still alive. Why would Christ say "He shall live" instead of "He's alive in heaven, but I'll reunite his soul with his body, just for you"?

Dont get it twisted Jesus resurrected in the same flesh that He died. No need to confuse the resurrection of Jesus with the resurection of the dead. It's bad and unnecessary commentary.

You can talk to me about commentary when you show me in scripture a text, any text, that says the soul is immortal and the body rests in the grave while the soul lives on in heaven (thus making you immortal).

 

[Stryder06]

Yes, it does, Apparently you dont consider the devil as an angel that sinned and was cast down in chains. I cant ignor or delete this clearly reenforced truth from Peter and Jude.

Oh please

I understand the text. First, it doesn't say he was locked up in hell. It says he was cast to earth and bound in chains. Second, the bible clearly shows him walking through the earth: Job 1:7, Matt 4:1-11, 1 Peter 5:8, Rev 2:13. So again, don't tell me what I don't understand simply because you can't reconcile these texts with your understanding.

Anyone can understand that Paul did not contradict himself. Here he is speaking metaphorically. He is saying "the devil seems "AS" a roaring lion who seem on the prowl to devour everyone he can tempt to sin the world.

1Pe 5:8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


But we can resist him by holding on to the doctrine of faith.
1Pe 5:9Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Stryder, you often appear to be playing word games rather than applying scriptures to understanding.

If your application is correct, tell us what country that the devil is powerwalking, so we can avoid getting devoured.

Again, you're the one saying the Devil is locked up in hell, when the bible says no such thing. I've provided you with scripture to show that the Devil is very much mobile. Being able to resist him has nothing to do with location. There are no word games being played here, just simple, direct truth. You show me a plain scripture, without Crib's commentary that states the Devil is locked up in hell.

Ever consider the "chains" to be symbolic? As in he is bound to this earth?

 

[Cribstyl]

Oh please

I understand the text. First, it doesn't say he was locked up in hell. It says he was cast to earth and bound in chains.

Second, the bible clearly shows him walking through the earth: Job 1:7, Matt 4:1-11, 1 Peter 5:8, Rev 2:13. So again, don't tell me what I don't understand simply because you can't reconcile these texts with your understanding.

Again, you're the one saying the Devil is locked up in hell, when the bible says no such thing. I've provided you with scripture to show that the Devil is very much mobile. Being able to resist him has nothing to do with location. There are no word games being played here, just simple, direct truth. You show me a plain scripture, without Crib's commentary that states the Devil is locked up in hell.

Ever consider the "chains" to be symbolic? As in he is bound to this earth?

Really? Is that your final answer? 2Pe 2:4¶For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

You were saying????

 

[Stryder06]

Really? Is that your final answer? 2Pe 2:4¶For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

You were saying????

I was saying what I've been saying, but I forgot that you think hell is an eternal pit of fire where the wicked are burning forever. So either Peter is talking about the earth, or, he's confused. And What about the scripture from Job, and Matthew? How do you reconcile those with your idea that Satan is locked up in Hell?

I'd give you an explanation that ties into several translations that describe the word "hell" here as nothing more than a pit/dungeon/ but I'm sure you'd pull the "word games" card (as if it isn't important) and disregard everything I would say. So I'll simply appeal to Satan tempting Christ and walking back and forth on the earth, as recorded in Job, and as attested to by Peter (again, he must have been confused between his two letters).

 

[Cribstyl]

I was saying what I've been saying, but I forgot that you think hell is an eternal pit of fire where the wicked are burning forever.
So either Peter is talking about the earth, or, he's confused.

Rewind what Stryder said;

"I understand the text.
First, it doesn't say he was locked up in hell.
It says he was cast to earth and bound in chains.

Does that text say that Stryder? Really?

Rewind what I (Crib) said: #98
"The devil is currently being Held in chains in Hell."

What does Peter say; ....but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

What does Jude say;...... he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Now what does Stryder say;

"So either Peter is talking about the earth, or, he's confused."

What a shameful resolve Stryder,
You're saying that Peter is confused just to hold on to your views.
That same fact is repeated in Jude 1:6. " under darkness" Is he confused too?
How many apostles must be thrown under the bus?
.........................................................................................

Let's not talk about what 'you think that I think' Stryder, because, if you qouted me right, you might understand my views better. (I did not say "locked up" to imply that Satan was powerless or hands off, to tempt man)

And What about the scripture from Job, and Matthew?

We'll get to the texts that matters to you soon enough.

How do you reconcile those with your idea that Satan is locked up in Hell?

Stryder, I'm sure we should look at what those text say. I will address them soon, but we're openning up various issues and not settling anything.

Remember, I had brought up Satan being in Hell, to try and explain about where souls dwell. Your rejection of my possition is why you have to say Peter must have been confused. You should hear me out before confusing what I'm explaining.

I'd give you an explanation that ties into several translations that describe the word "hell" here as nothing more than a pit/dungeon/ but I'm sure you'd pull the "word games" card (as if it isn't important) and disregard everything I would say. So I'll simply appeal to Satan tempting Christ and walking back and forth on the earth, as recorded in Job, and as attested to by Peter (again, he must have been confused between his two letters).

(no comment)

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Crib, did you read Reddogs thread on the article, The Immortality of The Soul by Samuele Bacchiocchi? I think you might get a blessing from it...

 

[Cribstyl]

Crib, did you read Reddogs thread on the article, The Immortality of The Soul by Samuele Bacchiocchi? I think you might get a blessing from it...

Believe it or not, I dont like to shoot at SDA doctrines. What I like to do is redeem the word of God.

I read some of the article and I find many point of disagreement, but I like to choose my battles, if you know what I mean.


How do you explain away how these text explains these dead men and the return of the spirit in them?

Rev 11:8And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11¶And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

The text show that they came back to life because the Spirit of life entered them. These scriptures testifies that the body without the spirit is a dead body.
Please, dont play the word definition card and ignor the explanation given.

 

[Cribstyl]

Second, the bible clearly shows him walking through the earth: Job 1:7, Matt 4:1-11, 1 Peter 5:8, Rev 2:13. So again, don't tell me what I don't understand simply because you can't reconcile these texts with your understanding.

We would argue to no end about what the book of Job have to say in this matter.
I think that you believe that aliens from other worlds and Satan was present as the representive of the earth(the ruler). This was a meeting with God.

I believe that the Sons of God were God's Holy angel, (messengers) between men and God, giving a report and Satan was there also to expose that all humanity is in rebellion.
I believe that God got the jump on Satan by bringing up Job.

Stay tuned for edit....

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Believe it or not, I dont like to shoot at SDA doctrines. What I like to do is redeem the word of God.

I read some of the article and I find many point of disagreement, but I like to choose my battles, if you know what I mean.


How do you explain away how these text explains these dead men and the return of the spirit in them?

Rev 11:8And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
Rev 11:11¶And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

The text show that they came back to life because the Spirit of life entered them. These scriptures testifies that the body without the spirit is a dead body.
Please, dont play the word definition card and ignor the explanation given.

Actually, that passage from Revelation is a prophesy. The language is symbolic... it foretells the time during the French Revolution when the government officially rejected God and instituted the godess of reason in His stead. This event lasted exactly 3 and a half years...