Does Christ Stand Behind US Gov't?

[Hans Blaster]

For 1700 years its always been the other way around.

The US has only been around for about 250 years. Your math is off a bit.

 

[timothyu]

Your math is off a bit.

Just one more in a long line and not one followed the will of God.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Just one more in a long line and not one followed the will of God.

I'm at a loss here. What does 1700 years have to do with Jesus and the US government?

 

[Desk trauma]

Well, at a time before State and the American Church began that spiritually perilous trek, exposing divisions, chasms and splinters over many generations, you would have to be fully out of touch to think there has been no such impact on the founding to the present, formally or otherwise. Take a peek as 'Desk Trauma' reminds us:

The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. US Congress 1854​

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[T]he only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government is the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible. Benjamin Rush 1798​

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[T]he religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles… This is genuine Christianity and to this we owe our free constitutions of government. Noah Webster 1843​

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We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses. Thomas Jefferson 1809​

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The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity. John Adams 1796​

Oddly absent from this post, any references to your holy book that are found in our godless constitution.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Oddly absent from this post, any references to your holy book that are found in our godless constitution.

Or vice versa.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, at a time before State and the American Church began that spiritually perilous trek, exposing divisions, chasms and splinters over many generations, you would have to be fully out of touch to think there has been no such impact on the founding to the present, formally or otherwise. Take a peek as 'Desk Trauma' reminds us:

The great, vital, and conservative element in our system is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and the divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. US Congress 1854​

​

[T]he only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government is the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible. Benjamin Rush 1798​

​

[T]he religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles… This is genuine Christianity and to this we owe our free constitutions of government. Noah Webster 1843​

​

We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses. Thomas Jefferson 1809​

​

The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity. John Adams 1796​

None of these statements are relevant to the conversation. At best you offer personal opinions as though they are authoritative statements vis-a-vis the US government.

Would personal opinions of early Americans, which are less than flattering to Christianity, be equally valid as these?
Thomas Paine wrote,

“It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.”

The same Thomas Paine wrote,

"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”

What makes one early American's opinion more valid in this conversation than another?

The answer is simple: opinion is opinion.

Merely quoting early Americans, speaking personal opinions, does not constitute an argument for the US government being based on Christianity anymore than it would be an argument for the US government being against Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[timothyu]

I'm at a loss here. What does 1700 years have to do with Jesus and the US government?

Just saying the US govt is no different than all which have gone before. All are opposite in nature to the Kingdom.

 

[Pommer]

Just saying the US govt is no different than all which have gone before. All are opposite in nature to the Kingdom.

Exactly, the Kingdom is for the “next world”, not this one.

 

[timothyu]

Exactly, the Kingdom is for the “next world”, not this one.

Not so or we wouldn't have been ordered to repent of our backwards self centered ways.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Just saying the US govt is no different than all which have gone before. All are opposite in nature to the Kingdom.

I'm an American. Of course I am opposed to kingdoms as kings are an affront to the dignity of humanity. Long live the Republic.

 

[RDKirk]

Jesus is not and was never a citizen of The United States of America. He was a subject of the Roman Empire (AKA Senatus Populusque Romanus - SPQR).

To hear Jesus tell it, He was just visiting the Roman Empire.

 

[RDKirk]

There seems to be much arguing about whether Christ stands with the US, but none on whether the US stands with Christ.

Abraham Lincoln said something to that effect....

 

[RDKirk]

Some folks keep trying to make our Nation into a “Heaven-lite” version so that they won’t have too much of a transition when they go to their Eternal glory, (I guess).

“The world” is supposed to be “enemy territory“ and Christians are supposed to “endure” us heathen until they get their “reward” for having done so.

While also offering you asylum to our country.

 

[Pommer]

While also offering you asylum to our country.

And many have sought succor at the breast of Holy Mother Church, which is great, but, at best, it’s an embassy.

 

[Hans Blaster]

And many have sought succor at the breast of Holy Mother Church, which is great, but, at best, it’s an embassy.

I think they call it a nuncio.

 

[RDKirk]

And many have sought succor at the breast of Holy Mother Church, which is great, but, at best, it’s an embassy.

Asylum is most often sought at embassies.

 

[Pommer]

Asylum is most often sought at embassies.

Yes, traditionally embassies have been considered the “sovereign land” of the occupying Nation, and while one can plead for asylum there, getting to a border and crossing to do the same is fine too.

I’ve seen mega churches that have food-courts in them and have wondered what an interesting time it will be at the Parousia after someone gets their nachos with extra-sauce, there, then.

 

[rocknanchor]

Surely, occasionally amusing to some. For their sake, I think they would prefer to jump to the un-answered core of the thread. From America's founding, we have a small token of important precedence to date:

The Inescapable Christian Empowerment - #26

Sound Justification of Christian Civil Servants - #43,

Sound Justification of Christian Civil Servants - #44

Founders Allegiance Glorifying the Christian Religion - #58

The Exhausting Price for the Vast Religious Welcoming of the Pluralistic First Amendment - #37

Primary Unanswered Source - #38,

Primary Unanswered Source - #50 (last sentence)

 

[Hans Blaster]

Surely, occasionally amusing to some. For their sake, I think they would prefer to jump to the un-answered core of the thread. From America's founding, we have a small token of important precedence to date:

The Inescapable Christian Empowerment - #26

Sound Justification of Christian Civil Servants - #43,

Sound Justification of Christian Civil Servants - #44

Founders Allegiance Glorifying the Christian Religion - #58

The Exhausting Price for the Vast Religious Welcoming of the Pluralistic First Amendment - #37

Primary Unanswered Source - #38,

Primary Unanswered Source - #50 (last sentence)

Have you considered that maybe were just not that into you?

(Plus, posts built on bible quotes are such bores.)

 

[Bobber]

So does Christ stand behind the U.S. Government. Well God could one day and the next not. There is no such thing like America is God's people or they have some unique covenant with him. With things that go on in nations....God looks at them and God might tilt favor one direction for a certain specific reason but not because they are quote, His People. God has one people, the born again ones, his children and they're citizens from many if not all the nations of the world.