Does "catholic" really mean universal?

[prodromos]

I don't know if Catholics are Christians or not tbh. I think they are a type of Christians but I also don't think we fit into the same catagory. But like I said the human body has different part that are different with different functions but are needed for the body to function correctly.

What necessary function of the body do the Westboro Baptists perform?

 

[Albion]

What necessary function of the body do the Westboro Baptists perform?

It's amazing how fifteen people in Kansas are supposed to provide the explanation for simply everything in reformed Christianity--for some folks. Would you mind if someone else pointed to a handful of sex-crazed Roumanian monks and said "That's Eastern Orthodoxy for you!"?????

 

[prodromos]

It's amazing how fifteen people in Kansas are supposed to provide the explanation for simply everything in reformed Christianity--for some folks. Would you mind if someone else pointed to a handful of sex-crazed Roumanian monks and said "That's Eastern Orthodoxy for you!"?????

I'm merely trying to get fireheart to think about why he doesn't consider Catholics to be christians. Mabye I'm being a bit too oscure, since you obviously took it differently from my intention.

 

[Albion]

I'm merely trying to get fireheart to think about why he doesn't consider Catholics to be christians. Mabye I'm being a bit too oscure, since you obviously took it differently from my intention.

Could be. Or maybe I'm just getting too touchy about seeing the Westboro Baptists always being used as the example of "what's wrong with Protestantism."

 

[prodromos]

Could be. Or maybe I'm just getting too touchy about seeing the Westboro Baptists always being used as the example of "what's wrong with Protestantism."

Fireheart hails from Oklahoma which is adjacent to Kansas, so they were an example he would consider close to home.

 

[FireHeart]

I'm merely trying to get fireheart to think about why he doesn't consider Catholics to be christians. Mabye I'm being a bit too oscure, since you obviously took it differently from my intention.

As I said I don't know if they are Christians or not, I don't fully understand the Catholic faith so I wouldn't know if they are truly Christians or not.

 

[Cappadocious]

Catholic means universal

Actually it doesn't.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Actually it doesn't.

So, what does "catholic" mean?

 

[Cappadocious]

According to the whole.

 

[bbbbbbb]

According to the whole.

In relation to the Church, what does "the whole" mean?

 

[prodromos]

In relation to the Church, what does "the whole" mean?

Just as Jesus is fully God and not a part of God, so to the local Church under its bishop is fully the Church and not part of the Church.

 

[John 1:1 GodCZU]

Catholic means universal but do Roman Catholics really believe that the RCC is universal i.e. that their's is the one true church and that there are no other valid churches or denominations outside the RCC? If catholics agree that one can be a Christian by being baptised into a church other than the RCC why cling onto the "catholic" label - or does it mean something different to catholics?

"extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" = outside the church there is no salvation.


"Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. All the categorical strength and point of this aphorism lies in its tautology. Outside the Church there is no salvation, because salvation is the Church" (G. Florovsky, "Sobornost: the Catholicity of the Church", in The Church of God, p. 53). Does it therefore follow that anyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned? Of course not; still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved. As Augustine wisely remarked: "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!" (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a "visible" and an "invisible Church", yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense, we cannot always say."
—Kallistos Ware, titular Metropolitan of Diokleia

 

[ViaCrucis]

As I said I don't know if they are Christians or not, I don't fully understand the Catholic faith so I wouldn't know if they are truly Christians or not.

Roman Catholics are Christian. It's really that simple.

The Christian religion is divided among different groups, the reasons for these many different divisions is a matter of often very long and complex history.

Broadly speaking Christians can be divided geographically, East and West. Eastern Christianity would include the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Assyrian Church. These are the Christians of the Eastern Roman Empire (Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, etc), the Middle East, Persia, and all the way to India. Western Christianity would include Roman Catholics, Protestants, the Anglican Communion, and the Old Catholic Churches.

Among these Protestantism is further divided into various traditions (Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Mennonite, Amish, Pentecostal, Reformed, etc) and usually then further sub-divided into denominations. The Southern Baptist Convention is a Baptist denomination. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is a Lutheran denomination. And so on.

So-called non-denominational churches are Protestant churches whose theological tradition is usually tied into the Neo-Evangelical and Charismatic movements of the 20th century; they are effectively single congregation denominations.

All the above are Christians.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Vanellus]

Maybe it's more accurate to say all the above are Christian denominations and many (but maybe not all) of their adherents are Christians.

 

[Job8]

Invincible Ignorance is a mighty high standard.....so basically the teaching has not changed in the 20th century as you suggest. The words are more ecumenical but the meaning of No Salvation Outside the Church is the same as pronounced at Trent.

And yet Catholics in general refuse to be honest about this. According to Trent all those who reject Roman Catholic doctrine are "accursed" -- bound for Hell. Therefore their Canons essentially state that those who KNOWINGLY AND DELIBERATELY do not accept them "LET HIM BE ANATHEMA". The truth of the matter is that Protestants and non-Catholic Christians are "heretics" in the eyes of the RCC, and all the sweet ecumenical talk is pure deception.

 

[Albion]

And yet Catholics in general refuse to be honest about this. According to Trent all those who reject Roman Catholic doctrine are "accursed" -- bound for Hell. Therefore their Canons essentially state that those who KNOWINGLY AND DELIBERATELY do not accept them "LET HIM BE ANATHEMA". The truth of the matter is that Protestants and non-Catholic Christians are "heretics" in the eyes of the RCC, and all the sweet ecumenical talk is pure deception.

In principle, you're right. The way to understand this and similar doctrinal changes or apparent changes is to realize that whatever works is what is said. If it serves to say the church never changes any doctrine and never has, that's what will be said. If it serves better to say that the church has changed, that'll be said instead. We know that when a totalitarian government says that it is for peace and security, it means something else, but we at least are alert to such talk when it comes from them. When it comes to religion, however, we tend to be more trusting.

An example from recent times is the ill-fated "Anglican Ordinariate" idea that Pope Benedict promulgated in an attempt to undermine the Church of England. All those who were gullible believed that the idea was that an affiliation of their congregations with the RCC was offered and that they could remain Anglican except for the obvious doctrines and acceptance of the Pope. They found out that it meant nothing more than becoming Roman Catholics, period.

 

[John 1:1 GodCZU]

Actually it doesn't.

catholic (adj.)
mid-14c., "of the doctrines of the ancient Church," literally "universally accepted," from French catholique, from Church Latin catholicus "universal, general," from Greek katholikos, from phrase kath' holou "on the whole, in general," from kata "about" + genitive of holos "whole" (see safe (adj.)). Applied to the Church in Rome c. 1554, after the Reformation began. General sense of "of interest to all, universal" is from 1550s.

 

[Cappadocious]

Dictionaries are the last refuge of the scoundrel.

 

[concretecamper]

And yet Catholics in general refuse to be honest about this. According to Trent all those who reject Roman Catholic doctrine are "accursed" -- bound for Hell. Therefore their Canons essentially state that those who KNOWINGLY AND DELIBERATELY do not accept them "LET HIM BE ANATHEMA". The truth of the matter is that Protestants and non-Catholic Christians are "heretics" in the eyes of the RCC, and all the sweet ecumenical talk is pure deception.

Maybe these people subscribe to the theory that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. n this case I would liken it to wanting to be friendly at the expense of the truth.

But people prefer the truth......just ask some of the Anglicans who belonged to a parish where the entire parish converted to the RCC.

 

[John 1:1 GodCZU]

Dictionaries are the last refuge of the scoundrel.

“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
― Benjamin Franklin