Does autism affect your relationship with God?

ChristianForCats said:

Nothing, God does not ignore retarded people. He wants everyone to share His love and is faithul to all of His children.

I struggle with not reading the Bible every day and joined CF partiallly to fix that.

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I am autistic. I am not retarded. Explain yourself. I am a well published neuroscientist. Please explain yourself.

Rene Loup said:

I had no logical explanation for that....

I understand hurt-induced anger towards God because I have felt it. I have experienced both good and bad Christianity and I came to the conclusion that not all denominations are equal. Most importantly, not everything in life is logical.

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Everything in life is logical. We just lack sufficient correct premises. I have observed that "logical explanaton" has nothing at all to do with logic. "Logical explanation" actually means "agrees with my prejudices or lack of knowledge".

Tony Ramirez said:

Yes my Asperger affects my faith greatly especially the social aspect which is very difficult. I do fight through it still pray but it gets either frustrated, boring or both.

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If we go to a hospital for a severe respiratory disease, we never expect that any "social aspect" will interfere with our treatment.

But when we go to the hospital for the disease of sin, the "social aspect" is expected to dominate.

Satan is so cunning.

Sabertooth said:

In its basic form, autism is a social disability, not a mental one. That is, we don't intuitively recognize society's unwritten rules.

"Dyssocial" means that we still want to connect with others. We are just klutzy at it.

Cognitive dysfunction (and other mental disabilities) are just complications that can happen on top of that. (They are from a secondary injury.)

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Could swear ASD is considered a neurological disorder, the social aspects, as well as sensory processing issues are because of the brain being wired a different way, it's not social or psychological, because that would mean the approach is different than if it was something we can observe physiological aspects of, even if they can't be "cured" or "assuaged".

Having bipolar disorder or such would have that issue, but you're suggesting something that can be as much a neurotypical issue as with ASD individuals, just not as pronounced, whereas we have a more marked social dysfunction and ASD symptoms as such, versus just coming into conflict with social norms

ChristianForCats said:

I did not say all autistic people are retarded.

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You used the term and it's not really utilized by any professional because it's horribly marginalizing and damaging in the idea of someone being essentially lesser because of some mental or neurological problem.

Just friendly advice to throw it out of your vocabulary, it's harmful in the same way as "high functioning" is not generally utilized for ASD because it encourages an ableist idea that one must be able to function in some presumed fashion to not be regarded as a "burden" or such

ChristianForCats said:

Do you feel your symptoms of ASD (anywhere on the spectrum) affect how your relationship is with the Holy One? Do you have doubts about being a Christian because of your uncontrollable demands for logic as we see it and all sentences having a literal interpretation?

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Well, I'm pretty much one of the few on the forums that appears to have ASD (official diagnosis and all) but not be a Christian. It affected my relationship in the sense that I never felt any such thing even as I participated. At most there was some sense of floating at one point during a service (not that uncommon), but more often than not, the spiritual/supernatural experiences just weren't happening and I went to a handful of denominations as well (Presbyterian, Baptist, Church of Christ, and maybe one more?).

I've grown to understand logic better and that there are abstract things, but I do still insist on being as intellectually honest and skeptical as possible, which is probably why I've honestly just gotten more unconvinced of Christianity as I see street preachers or the like through YT and the arguments barely hold water, only internally consistent, but not warranted by evidence or reasoned consideration of the explanations as generally being rooted in fallacious thinking.

Never really felt like church was for me, in a similar fashion to allying with any organization in general, was just more isolated because my attempts to socialize fell flat more often than not. And my conversion that was quickly upturned by looking into other religions and Deism in particular, was more about wanting some conformity and social acceptance, not necessarily fully buying into it or just being convinced by an appeal to guilt and such about doing bad things and needing redemption from outside.

But as I considered the innate premises and such in Christianity and other revealed religions, I found myself far less convinced that they were true or beneficial in any real way that couldn't be found in striving to better understand social interactions and find people who would accept me for who I am (and I have)

And my general approach is not fully logical or emotional, I can understand metaphor and sarcasm much better, though discerning mood and such are still difficult. And honestly, considering I studied religion in college for my major alongside philosophy probably aided in having a slightly more balanced look at things, initially more jaded in a way, but less cynical than I was as a young adult

NothingIsImpossible said:

Depends on your place in the spectrum. And by that I mean for some it can cause them stress or things along those lines because for any number of reasons. In my case I am supposedly on the autism scale and I know I tend to overthink alot of things and I also tend to not read the bible because I get bored easily sometimes since I know it already (not that I am perfect of course). None the less I believe God understands our issues and realizes not everyone has the same walk.

For example someone with really bad down syndrome may not fully grasp being a "christian", but God knows there heart is in it. I mean I can't see God turning someone down in heaven because they couldn't really understand the concept of being a christian.

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Not sure it's remotely fair to compare what is primarily a developmental disorder with one that has developmental and intellectual delays, which would lend itself more to Christians saying that they'd go to heaven automatically because they don't have the ability to fully comprehend the concepts.

Autistic individuals, however, assuming they fit into 1 or 2 (the categories more recently introduced which suggest that you are not significantly impaired as with category 3) don't neatly fit into boxes in the slightest and arguably seem fairly split in terms of religiosity or lack thereof

muichimotsu said:

Could swear ASD is considered a neurological disorder, the social aspects, as well as sensory processing issues are because of the brain being wired a different way, it's not social or psychological, because that would mean the approach is different than if it was something we can observe physiological aspects of, even if they can't be "cured" or "assuaged".

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The basic condition is comparable to being intellectually gifted or left-handed. We just happen to be susceptible to a subsequent brain injury, borne of environmental causes (on top of it) to which NTs appear to be less susceptible.

ChristianForCats said:

Left-handed people are not more susceptible to ibrain injuries than right-handed people.

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But it is still an anomaly.

ChristianForCats said:

Autism is an acrtual problem. Writing and throwing with the left hand is not.

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Broken autism is a problem. Healthy autism is not.

ChristianForCats said:

Is there really such a thing as healthy autism?

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Yes. Even Temple Grandin says so.

Sabertooth said:

The basic condition is comparable to being intellectually gifted or left-handed. We just happen to be susceptible to a subsequent brain injury, borne of environmental causes (on top of it) to which NTs appear to be less susceptible.

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And which is that? Can't say I've heard about some susceptibility to a brain injury, though I have read about comorbidity of stuff like OCPD (which I suspect I may have to a degree), among other stuff, like misophonia and hyperacusis (which I'm more sure I have)

ChristianForCats said:

Is there really such a thing as healthy autism?

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If you ask that question, it suggests you don't actually understand it, in the same vein as asking, "Why are there still apes if we evolved from apes?" or even, "Why aren't we seeing more evolution in the vein as we see it described in the evolutionary tree?", both of which showing there isn't a precise understanding of evolution in terms of common ancestry and that natural selection works on particular pressures that aren't always present

ChristianForCats said:

It is just being different, like most people don't have red hair. The word anomaly makes me think it is not good. Autism is an acrtual problem. Writing and throwing with the left hand is not.

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It's a different way of processing, not unlike writing with the left hand, since we tend to design things with right handedness in mind.

Sabertooth said:

Broken autism is a problem. Healthy autism is not.

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That sound suspiciously like you're insinuating functionality as a major aspect and also ascribing that kind of value judgment on particular autism, rather than what I think is a more common distinction of needing more support, not "broken", which is arguably ableist in its implications

muichimotsu said:

not "broken", which is arguably ableist in its implications

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I am certainly no ableist. All autism is the same. ASD2/3s just have more intense co-morbid conditions, which are separate from the autism, itself. That is where the problems lie. The goal should not be to "cure" autism, but to minimize the additional co-morbid conditions, if at all possible.

Are you saying that if a person is born with autism, they are impervious to environmental insults like bacteria, viruses, fungi, toxins, etc.?

Findings show just the opposite, that the intellectually gifted and basic autistic [ASD1] neurotypes both exhibit hyper-reactive immune systems, particularly in the form of allergies. Read Dr. Martha Herbert about this general hypothesis.

ASD1s were only recently acknowledged. There are no historical statistics to compare us to because we always flew under the radar.

ASD2/3s have always been in special education under one label or another. Prior to 1980?, ASD2/3s occurred 1:1000 live births. Here is a graph for the state of California.

muichimotsu said:

And which is that..?

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The real question should be, "What changed around 1980?"