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Yet at one time you were convinced you were in the Christian faith. What did you think made you Christian?
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Yet at one time you were convinced you were in the Christian faith. What did you think made you Christian?All I can experience is the natural world. Nothing shows or points to a supernatural reality.
Only if you are under the impression that I claim the supernatural isn't real. I have no idea if it is or isn't. I am making no claim either way. I am only stating that I don't believe it. I am making no truth claim--you however are. Think about which one of us has the burden of proof.Now that is wee bit the clover calling the grass green.
Your choice of words is interesting. I am not convinced that your claim is true. I am not convinced the claims of the Bible are true. You are asking me to do the impossible--the begin with the assumption that these things are in fact true. No, you have to demonstrate that.Only if you deny the revelation of Holy Scriptures.
How is that relevant? I don't want to simply talk about myself--that's boring.Yet at one time you were convinced you were in the Christian faith. What did you think made you Christian?
Present evidence for your claim please--I don't want to discuss me.Yet at one time you were convinced you were in the Christian faith. What did you think made you Christian?
But this thread is about you and your journey. I think you need to present evidence of how you were convinced you were in the faith to begin with. Cultural transmission and church life and some personal experiences is what you offer. Can you base this on Scriptures is what makes one a Christian?Present evidence for your claim please--I don't want to discuss me.
I only provided some context by using some personal experiences. But how in the world does exploring my past have anything to do with whether a god or the supernatural is actually true. You could interrogate my beliefs for ten years and come up with nothing of any substance concerning that claim. Why would you ask a guy who doesn't believe in God to give reasons why he used to believe in God?But this thread is about you and your journey. I think you need to present evidence of how you were convinced you were in the faith to begin with. Cultural transmission and church life and some personal experiences is what you offer. Can you base this on Scriptures is what makes one a Christian?
In all honesty If I am to ask myself why I am still a Christian, one of it would be the unbroken the Apostolic tradition and succession that goes back to the Apostles, no religion has a reliable chain that actually goes back to its founder like Christianity can and no religion on earth has the same theological continuity Christianity has, I can go back to to Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, and they all believe the exact stuff I believe. Learning about the Trinity and Christology were also a major part of my journey that helped keep me in Christianity. Christianity has taken the best out of both the worlds it came into contact with, it does not proclaim the primitive concepts of the Jews and yet it avoids the mad polytheism of the Greeks. It has taken the basic monotheistic truth from the Jews and the philosophical eloquence of the Greeks. No other worldview can so successfully claim to do that and still proclaim truth.What arguments did you find compelling?
Thank you sharing your thoughts with me--very thoughtful. I appreciate it.In all honesty If I am to ask myself why I am still a Christian, one of it would be the unbroken the Apostolic tradition and succession that goes back to the Apostles, no religion has a reliable chain that actually goes back to its founder like Christianity can and no religion on earth has the same theological continuity Christianity has, I can go back to to Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, and they all believe the exact stuff I believe. Learning about the Trinity and Christology were also a major part of my journey that helped keep me in Christianity. Christianity has taken the best out of both the worlds it came into contact with, it does not proclaim the primitive concepts of the Jews and yet it avoids the mad polytheism of the Greeks. It has taken the basic monotheistic truth from the Jews and the philosophical eloquence of the Greeks. No other worldview can so successfully claim to do that and still proclaim truth.
What might a person like me not understand?
Why should I believe there is something outside of the natural world?
This sounds like Gould's idea of NOMA (Non Overlapping Magisteria). The problem though, is this. A completely undetectable God could theoretically exist; but, the Bible presents an active and a personal God which does act in the natural world. Shouldn't we be able to observe the effects of those actions? From a window we know the wind blows because the tree moves. I didn't have to personally feel the wind, but I have evidence of it. If God acts in the world, his activity will leave a trace, an imprint--something detectable and observable.
What do you mean received? Do you mean steel manned? Do you mean believed? It isn't clear?Typically in apologetics sides are presented but not received.
Christ tells Thomas "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" and this is what faith is.
Science will aim at explaining every phenomenon but faith is about belief of God that is beyond science that ultimate has not just control over all things but intimately is involved. God is there, it's your choice to see him.
Then we do well to remember that one only comes to a saving faith by the power of the Holy Spirit and not of our works or persuasive arguments. In Acts 17, Paul was put in a similar situation in which the philosophical intellectual elites of Athens tried to challenge him to a theological debate. His response was simple. He merely stated the truth that was revealed to him and had a "take it or leave it" attitude before he left them. Some actually followed him! The point is that Paul didn't waste his time debating and arguing the truth. He just proclaimed it. Furthermore, Jesus himself didn't waste his time "casting pearls before swine". Which is why he prefaced his parables by saying "Whoever has ears let them hear" (Matthew 11:15). Likewise, it would be foolish to debate and argue heavenly things to those who only understand earthly things. Only by the power of the Holy Spirit can one understand heavenly truths and be saved. We can plant the seeds of truth, but it is God who makes them grow. It would also be helpful to revisit the parable of the sower.It was by grace alone through faith alone. I held to the 5 Sola's.
I assume you meant me--if not I apologize. So you think I can no longer connect to my heart? That's a very weird thing o say about someone you do not know. How might you have come by this information? I assume you don't claim to be psychic.For what it is worth, I am guessing you have experienced some trauma and no longer connect with your heart. This is why you present as supremely rational because matters of the heart are too painful to process. If you had genuine faith you have lost contact with it.
The journey to truth must be beyond the 5 senses and powers of observation. So you have limited your quest by using the wrong tools.
At a heart level, we have a conscience and an intuition and the infinite space in which He dwells. Herein lies the voice of truth you have disconnected from.
Just sayin...
This is often why Christians come across as so charming.Furthermore, Jesus himself didn't waste his time "casting pearls before swine".
I assume you meant me--if not I apologize. So you think I can no longer connect to my heart? That's a very weird thing o say about someone you do not know. How might you have come by this information? I assume you don't claim to be psychic.
You are quite wrong. Sorry if I got a bit snappy, but the folks on this forum jump to the moon with assumptions and conclusions. When I say I lost my faith, I don't mean that as a negative thing. My life drastically improved. I appreciate my wife and kids more because I want to love them well in the only life we have together. I cherish every day now because I know there is no such thing as eternity.If I am wrong I apologise - you express a reluctance to talk about yourself. You have avoided comment around how you 'lost' your faith. There is a strong possibility I am right. This is not rocket science - nor do I need some special gift to suggest this. It is a logical question to ask !!
If I am wrong, just say...
We can be charming...when we want to.This is often why Christians come across as so charming.
How do you do that? It's a heavy lift.One must convince the skeptic that scripture is authoritative and credible first before scripture can be used to sway them.
What do you mean received? Do you mean steel manned? Do you mean believed? It isn't clear?
This is the problem: How could I exercise faith if I do not already believe?
I can't have faith that Allah is God because I don't believe it.
I can't have faith that aliens have visited the earth because I don't believe the claims.
According to you faith precedes belief--how exactly does that work?
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