Does anything really cease to exist

[Nithavela]

No, all atoms continue existing, unless they are transformed into energy, or vice versa. Nothing is lost.

 

[Eudaimonist]

No, all atoms continue existing, unless they are transformed into energy, or vice versa. Nothing is lost.

Atoms aren't lost. But we are more than just collections of atoms. A corpse is not the same thing as a living being, even if all of the atoms are present.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Nithavela]

Atoms aren't lost. But we are more than just collections of atoms. A corpse is not the same thing as a living being, even if all of the atoms are present.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Indeed, in a corpse, there are other kinds of chemical reactions, and the overall temperature is lower.

And no, we are not more than just a collection of atoms. We ARE a collection of atoms. That's nothing to scoff at, really.

 

[Eudaimonist]

And no, we are not more than just a collection of atoms. We ARE a collection of atoms. That's nothing to scoff at, really.

We are more than a collection of atoms. We are a certain kind of self-generated, self-sustaining activity of a collection of atoms. We are the activity of those atoms, not simply the atoms themselves without consideration of what they are doing.

That's nothing to scoff at either.

Indeed, in a corpse, there are other kinds of chemical reactions

Yes, but those "other" kinds of reactions accomplish do not accomplish anything emergent such as life.

and the overall temperature is lower.

You are trivializing the difference between a living being and a corpse. A living being is much more than a warm corpse.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

"Mortal man has a spirit nucleus. The mind is a personal-energy system existing around a divine spirit nucleus and functioning in a material environment. Such a living relationship of personal mind and spirit constitutes the universe potential of eternal personality. Real trouble, lasting disappointment, serious defeat, or inescapable death can come only after self-concepts presume fully to displace the governing power of the central spirit nucleus, thereby disrupting the cosmic scheme of personality identity." UB 1955

 

[Larniavc]

A corpse is not the same thing as a living being, even if all of the atoms are present.

Very true. How energy is distributed around the body is radically different.

Yes, but those "other" kinds of reactions accomplish do not accomplish anything emergent such as life.

The action of the bacteria in the corpse is life.

 

[Larniavc]

"Mortal man has a spirit nucleus. The mind is a personal-energy system existing around a divine spirit nucleus and functioning in a material environment. Such a living relationship of personal mind and spirit constitutes the universe potential of eternal personality. Real trouble, lasting disappointment, serious defeat, or inescapable death can come only after self-concepts presume fully to displace the governing power of the central spirit nucleus, thereby disrupting the cosmic scheme of personality identity." UB 1955

That's very interesting. Can you link to some evidence for this?

 

[Colter]

That's very interesting. Can you link to some evidence for this?

It's something that has to be personally experienced, that will be your evidence.

 

[Bible Page]

Is there anything in this creation/universe that really ceases to exist or do things transform into some different state of being?

Isn't that what the laws of physics tell us. All things are energy moving constantly and to a rhythm. And as such no thing can be destroyed only re-formed.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Very true. How energy is distributed around the body is radically different.

It's much more than that!

The action of the bacteria in the corpse is life.

Yes, it is. However, it's not the life of the original organism, the one in question.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Nithavela]

The cells of the original organism are dead, and their proteins, fats and other parts are dissolved and used by other cells. What ceases is the concerted working of a number of cells with the same DNA (more or less). Instead, the material is transformed into "another state of being", that being either part of another organism or of a state of not being in any kind of life, but floating around.

What ends are processes, like travels to a destiny. But a process is not a thing, it is something a thing does.

 

[durangodawood]

I still call it glass.

Powdered glass

Thats not a glass. Its just glass. Big difference.

 

[Larniavc]

It's something that has to be personally experienced, that will be your evidence.

Ah, you mean you haven't any evidence. That's okay.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What ends are processes, like travels to a destiny. But a process is not a thing, it is something a thing does.

A process is not a thing, but it is nevertheless a phenomenon that can be lost.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Nithavela]

That was not the question in the OP, though. The question was if "anything" ends.

 

[Eudaimonist]

That was not the question in the OP, though. The question was if "anything" ends.

I interpret your use of the word "thing" to mean the materiality of an entity without respect to activity or structure. For instance, we may refer to a thing being made up of H2O molecules without saying if it is ice, steam, or water, and without specifying what this substance is doing.

I interpret "anything" in the OP to refer to a broader sense of "thing", in which emergent phenomena are included. I see no reason to use your more restrictive sense.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Colter]

Ah, you mean you haven't any evidence. That's okay.

Sure I do, but Atheist ask questions that can't be answered in the traditional sense of a math equation. They then use that as evidence of their equally unprovable doctrines of doubt.

When religionists talk among ourselves we know what the experience is.

 

[Larniavc]

Sure I do, but Atheist ask questions that can't be answered in the traditional sense of a math equation. They then use that as evidence of their equally unprovable doctrines of doubt.

When religionists talk among ourselves we know what the experience is.

It does not have to be maths. Any verifiable evidence will do.

 

[Colter]

It does not have to be maths. Any verifiable evidence will do.

You will need to do the work yourself, the indwelling spirit never coerces or invades the mind arena of choice.

 

[Larniavc]

You will need to do the work yourself, the indwelling spirit never coerces or invades the mind arena of choice.

So you cannot provide any evidence to substantiate your point and put the burden on myself?

Well played, sir.