Does anyone know of a past heretic who, because he was a "nice" and/or "moral" man, deceived many?

[Elizabeth Daniels Jn316]

Hi,

I'm trying to writing something emphasizing the fact that just because someone is nice and/or moral does not necessarily mean that he is saved. And I wanted to use an example of a heretic in church history whose false teaching was difficult to refute because he was such a "nice" or moral guy. I thought I heard a sermon years ago claiming that Arius fit that description, but I couldn't find anything in my search. Do any of you know if that was true concerning Arius, or if there was some other past heretic who was like that (e.g., Eutychus, Nestorius, Pelagius, etc.)?

Thanks so much!

 

[HTacianas]

Hi,

I'm trying to writing something emphasizing the fact that just because someone is nice and/or moral does not necessarily mean that he is saved. And I wanted to use an example of a heretic in church history whose false teaching was difficult to refute because he was such a "nice" or moral guy. I thought I heard a sermon years ago claiming that Arius fit that description, but I couldn't find anything in my search. Do any of you know if that was true concerning Arius, or if there was some other past heretic who was like that (e.g., Eutychus, Nestorius, Pelagius, etc.)?

Thanks so much!

You could say that they all did. Being a heretic doesn't mean you are an immoral person, it merely makes you wrong in some of your teachings. And it by no means implies that a person is not "saved".

 

[ByTheSpirit]

There is tradition that states Nicolaus from Acts 6, one of the seven chosen to serve as deacons is such a person. Jesus even mentioned his group twice in Revelation in warnings.

Who Were the Nicolaitans, And What Was Their Doctrine and Deeds?

 

[Der Alte]

Removed by poster.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi,

I'm trying to writing something emphasizing the fact that just because someone is nice and/or moral does not necessarily mean that he is saved. And I wanted to use an example of a heretic in church history whose false teaching was difficult to refute because he was such a "nice" or moral guy. I thought I heard a sermon years ago claiming that Arius fit that description, but I couldn't find anything in my search. Do any of you know if that was true concerning Arius, or if there was some other past heretic who was like that (e.g., Eutychus, Nestorius, Pelagius, etc.)?

Thanks so much!

I don't think anyone can really pin point " nice and moral" traits of past theologians. Not really sure if it matters, unless you are referring to someone currently in your life. That being said, " nice and moral" are qualities scripture captures as fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Blessings

 

[Carl Emerson]

My mind went to Joseph Smith but I think he had multiple wives - correct me if I am wrong...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes apparently he was shot by the village folk for stealing their daughters...

 

[Elizabeth Daniels Jn316]

There is tradition that states Nicolaus from Acts 6, one of the seven chosen to serve as deacons is such a person. Jesus even mentioned his group twice in Revelation in warnings.

Who Were the Nicolaitans, And What Was Their Doctrine and Deeds?

Thanks for the information.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Hi,

I'm trying to writing something emphasizing the fact that just because someone is nice and/or moral does not necessarily mean that he is saved. And I wanted to use an example of a heretic in church history whose false teaching was difficult to refute because he was such a "nice" or moral guy. I thought I heard a sermon years ago claiming that Arius fit that description, but I couldn't find anything in my search. Do any of you know if that was true concerning Arius, or if there was some other past heretic who was like that (e.g., Eutychus, Nestorius, Pelagius, etc.)?

Thanks so much!

What they DID say about Arius was that he wrote some good music, far better than was available in Alexandria otherwise. He had the catchiest of tunes.

I have never heard anything about him being nicer, or more moral than others. Just about his music being very appealing. But then heretics do not appear to be nasty people. That stereotype just doesn't fly. They are merely those who teach false things about God and faith as if true.

 

[Elizabeth Daniels Jn316]

What they DID say about Arius was that he wrote some good music, far better than was available in Alexandria otherwise. He had the catchiest of tunes.

I have never heard anything about him being nicer, or more moral than others. Just about his music being very appealing. But then heretics do not appear to be nasty people. That stereotype just doesn't fly. They are merely those who teach false things about God and faith as if true.

Thank you.

 

[DragonFox91]

Think everyone here can agree w/ Joseph Smith. That's probably gonna be the safest answer.

 

[The Liturgist]

Hi,

I'm trying to writing something emphasizing the fact that just because someone is nice and/or moral does not necessarily mean that he is saved. And I wanted to use an example of a heretic in church history whose false teaching was difficult to refute because he was such a "nice" or moral guy. I thought I heard a sermon years ago claiming that Arius fit that description, but I couldn't find anything in my search. Do any of you know if that was true concerning Arius, or if there was some other past heretic who was like that (e.g., Eutychus, Nestorius, Pelagius, etc.)?

Thanks so much!

Arius definitely fits the bill. Nestorius on the other hand was known for using violence in persecuting those he disagreed with.

What they DID say about Arius was that he wrote some good music, far better than was available in Alexandria otherwise. He had the catchiest of tunes.

I have never heard anything about him being nicer, or more moral than others. Just about his music being very appealing. But then heretics do not appear to be nasty people. That stereotype just doesn't fly. They are merely those who teach false things about God and faith as if true.

If you read St. Epiphanius, and other Patristic authors, Arius was actually considered a widely respected ascetic and was looked upon with great favor by his parishioners. It was clear he was a charismatic man.

There is tradition that states Nicolaus from Acts 6, one of the seven chosen to serve as deacons is such a person. Jesus even mentioned his group twice in Revelation in warnings.

Who Were the Nicolaitans, And What Was Their Doctrine and Deeds?

Nicolas the Deacon basically formed a sect that adopted doctrines that came to be known as Gnostic, and which also held all property in common, including their wives, practicing wife-swapping, which is evil in two equally vile respects: organized adultery and treating women as property, both conducted under the banner of Christianity, thus it is no wonder our Lord attacked the Nicolaitans specifically in His revelation to St. John.

Think everyone here can agree w/ Joseph Smith. That's probably gonna be the safest answer.

I am pretty sure its not; he was charismatic in his earlier days, but then his conduct in Independence, Missouri and Nauvoo, Illinois was so heinous Missouri charged him with treason, he smashed a printing press in Nauvoo to put out of business a local paper critical of him, he raised a paramilitary, the Nauvoo Legion, which reminds me a bit of the SA or the SS, and indeed like Hitler ran for President, but lost because even among the Mormons he was increasingly disliked, and was eventually lynched. Brigham Young later went to great lengths to sanitize his image, but Joseph Smith was a pretty nasty fellow in that he let the power get to his head.