Does Anyone Here Hold This View?

[parousia70]

Those verses in Matthew do not say He is ruling... It says He was given "power".

1 Peter 3:21-22
Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, AFTER angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

All authority is currently subject to Him

So, Jesus Christ is reigning as King and that makes...

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:​

...Satan his prince...

Jesus defeated Satan.

In order for Christ to be reigning and for us to be in the millenial kingdom, there must have been a resurrection (the first) of those who overcame.

The resurrection of Jesus Christ was the "First resurrection", and it is past.

The teaching which states the resurrection had already happened was being taught in the days of Paul (and was still being taught in the days of the ECF)

2Ti 2:16-18 KJV


(16) But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
(17) And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;


(18) Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.​

LOL, so, in your view it will NEVER be ok to claim the resurrection as past, even when it is.

Because that was written about the "Revelation of Jesus Christ which is YET to happen.

LOL, so At the time Revelation was written, you claim Christ was not yet the "first born of the dead"? Are you sure about that?

Revelation was written almost 2000 years ago about things that were, things that are, and things which were to take place shortly after John saw the vision.

​

 

[Brain Damage]

What other things were they "Mistaken" about?
The Divinity of Christ?
Salvation?
The resurection?

If apostolic doctrine is found to be in error on any point, it can't be trusted on the whole

Which is probibly why people such as yourself end up becoming atheists , remember Franklin ? He used to be a preterist.

Parousia you would know about John the baptist , from the time he was in his mothers womb and onwards , and after all he had known , heard and seen he asks a couple of dudes ( while he was in jail ) to ask jesus if he was the one who they were waiting for , now come on mate! ..he knew the scriptures better that the rest , he knew he was the one that was crying in the wilderness , where as the others asked him if he was Elijah or "that" prophet to which he said "NO" i am not!

John was just as guilty of being human and making mistakes just like the rest of us .

 

[@@Paul@@]

1 Peter 3:21-22
Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, AFTER angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
All authority is currently subject to Him

Jesus defeated Satan.

An Angel WILL defeat Satan prior to the 1000 years..., Jesus Christ defeated death.

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,​

The resurrection of Jesus Christ was the "First resurrection", and it is past.
LOL, so, in your view it will NEVER be ok to claim the resurrection as past, even when it is.

Then YOU my friend are in error just like “Hymenaeus and Philetus”.

2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.​

I don’t think Jesus has another title: “the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus”. For when those people ARE resurrected it IS the First Resurrection. Now, when will it be in the past…

Rev 20:4-5 KJV
(4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

…At the first day of the “thousand years” the first ressurection will be in the past... Paul was pretty clear, it had not happened yet.

LOL, so At the time Revelation was written, you claim Christ was not yet the "first born of the dead"? Are you sure about that?

Enough LOL already… You do GREATLY ERR. You can laugh about it all you want.

Revelation: apokalupsis
ap-ok-al'-oop-sis
From G601; disclosure: - appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.​

“The Revelation (appearing, coming, manifestation, revealing) OF Jesus Christ” is still YET a future event. Unless you don’t believe in the Second Coming?? So, yes… I am sure about that. Christ resurrection was refered to as the "first BORN from the dead" or the "firstfruits of then that slept". Nowhere does the bible imply the first resurrection is a "birth from the dead".

Revelation was written almost 2000 years ago about things that were, things that are, and things which were to take place shortly after John saw the vision.

It was written at least 1950 years ago. So what? Do you think the entire book of Revelation has been “fulfilled”? Am I a sinner who missed the Second Coming? Is this the “New Heaven and the New Earth”?

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

It was right to say the resurrection hadn't happened yet. It was still some time before it would. But, it is correct to hold some form of preterism, no other view is even Biblical. And take the early church fathers, even they condemned the belief in a literal 1000 years as heresy (Right around the Nicene Creed time) You keep thinking that Revelation is a future event. It WAS a future event to those whom it was written.

 

[@@Paul@@]

It was right to say the resurrection hadn't happened yet. It was still some time before it would. But, it is correct to hold some form of preterism, no other view is even Biblical. And take the early church fathers, even they condemned the belief in a literal 1000 years as heresy (Right around the Nicene Creed time) You keep thinking that Revelation is a future event. It WAS a future event to those whom it was written.

That's silly. No other view is more unbiblical.... It was written to US.

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.​

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.​

When it happens, there will be NO questions... "Every eye shall see Him".

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.​

The first resurrection takes place AT the Second Advent of our Lord Jesus Christ... Which has not happened yet, because:

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;​

There must first be a "falling away" and then will Satan is to be revealed, before our Lord's return. Unless this event has happened?

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Are you serious? If it was for us, it would have been sealed. God specifically made it clear to leave the book open so those people could read it. Also, why was it not wriiten even later, like 1500's? I think you need to check up on scripture, like This generation will not pass away untill all these things have happened.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Are you serious? If it was for us, it would have been sealed. God specifically made it clear to leave the book open so those people could read it. Also, why was it not wriiten even later, like 1500's? I think you need to check up on scripture, like This generation will not pass away untill all these things have happened.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:​

Even the book of Revelations, which no one was ever told to "seal".

 

[breezynosacek]

I have to admit, breezy, I find your statements kind of humorous.

You're not quite sure what the people who espouse this thought are saying, but you believe that it's babble, outside the context of Scripture, and easy to disprove.

I would suggest you try asserting one of those three things without just throwing it out there for people to question your scholarship on.

Most forms of eschatalogical thought have degrees of substance that are very convincing. That's particularly why I do not hold to one.

Sorry I've been gone so long was visiting another forum and got caught up in ministering to someone that thought they were getting something from God through hypnosis.

No, I don't usually get into any kind of debates or anything like this on 'babble'. Reason being is that if something isn't true and you come into agreement with it Satan wins because he then gets a foothold because you come into agreement with a lie.

Now, the reason I know that is that I used to was be a witch/satanist. I know the wiles of the devil because I used to live like one. You all sit here and debate all you want but some day (or maybe it already has happened and you don't know it) some idiot is going to come in here and spout something off and it is going to 'sound' right but it is going to be off and you are going to miss it because of maybe one little word that got twisted. Satan likes those twisted Scriptures.

When you do, you are going to fall into satan's trap.

I have yet to see any benefit of debate or wrangling about things that don't build up the Body of Christ or edify. I wish that people would spend more time on stearing people away from heresies and doctrines that demons teach than being willing to debate them.

I also wish that people would get back to teaching sound dotrines but the apostasy is already here and I might as well figure that's hoping for something that ain't going to happen.

You don't always have to know the in's and out's of a particular doctrine to know if its correct or not. You are supposed to have the Holy Spirit and some discernment so that when you hear something and it's off, you know it.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

But when a propechy is fulfilled, it is fulfilled

 

[muffler dragon]

Sorry I've been gone so long was visiting another forum and got caught up in ministering to someone that thought they were getting something from God through hypnosis.

No, I don't usually get into any kind of debates or anything like this on 'babble'. Reason being is that if something isn't true and you come into agreement with it Satan wins because he then gets a foothold because you come into agreement with a lie.

Now, the reason I know that is that I used to was be a witch/satanist. I know the wiles of the devil because I used to live like one. You all sit here and debate all you want but some day (or maybe it already has happened and you don't know it) some idiot is going to come in here and spout something off and it is going to 'sound' right but it is going to be off and you are going to miss it because of maybe one little word that got twisted. Satan likes those twisted Scriptures.

When you do, you are going to fall into satan's trap.

I have yet to see any benefit of debate or wrangling about things that don't build up the Body of Christ or edify. I wish that people would spend more time on stearing people away from heresies and doctrines that demons teach than being willing to debate them.

I also wish that people would get back to teaching sound dotrines but the apostasy is already here and I might as well figure that's hoping for something that ain't going to happen.

You don't always have to know the in's and out's of a particular doctrine to know if its correct or not. You are supposed to have the Holy Spirit and some discernment so that when you hear something and it's off, you know it.

Breezy:

I understand what you're saying, and all I have to say in response, "Then you should not have stated anything in the first place." It's disrespectful to make the statements you did at the on-set, which were unsubstantiated, and then to come back and say that debating is useless anyway.

In neither case have you proven yourself being correct any more than for yourself. People come here to discuss and debate not just for personal edification, but more often than not, for the practice of 'iron sharpening iron'.

Besides, Peter has admonished to present cases when necessary in the following:

1 Peter 3
15 but [1] sanctify (1) Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready (2) to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the (3) hope that is in you, yet (4) with gentleness and (5) reverence;

This takes place in situations involving believers and unbelievers (in my eyes). Therefore, I respect the fact that you feel this type of discussion is worthless or a matter of chasing after vanities. My suggestion is that you simply avoid this type of discussion. Many of us enjoy engaging in it; others simply viewing and reading is satisfactory.

I wish you a pleasant day.

m.d.

 

[Trish1947]

I hold this view after 48 years as a Christian. Do I understand all of the Bible on end-times. NOPE!! So I have this view, if Jesus comes today, I'm ready, If he comes in the middle, I'm ready, If he comes at the end, I'm ready. Do I know beyond a shadow of doubt that hes coming? YES. It seems like we have adopted this idea that if we dont get the coming right, we'll miss it.. No you wont. If we're looking forward to His coming, then we wont miss it. The early church thought the end times was very near. They all died without seeing the end of all things. But they are all with Him right now. There end came when they died. We live about 70+ years if we're blessed, so I know that at least He will come for me for sure around that time frame, or if he gives me grace to live longer than that, then I have been extreamly blessed. The main thing is to have your heart ready. So I am neither a pre, mid, or post, person, I'm a "I'm ready person." Only the Father knows that time, but do I think we are in the end times? Yes, I think that we entered that time frame when Isreal became a Nation in 1948. I think its significant for sure. But how long does "these endtimes last"... I have no idea.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

They didnt die without seeing at least partial fulfillment of Revelation, or it would contradict scripture.

 

[Trish1947]

They didnt die without seeing at least partial fulfillment of Revelation, or it would contradict scripture.

Oh, absolutley, The Book of Revelation is the story from beginning to end. But in each generation you can find things that have happened significatly that you can say, yes, that is fulfilled, or is a partial fulfillment. You can see it coming together, and thats good, it helps you get your priorities straight thats for sure.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Indeed. Judgement isn't too far off. At the rate Christianity is becoming perverted and twisted, I am surprised we're still here.