Does anyone agree with me?

[Hidden in Christ]

OK, I have been coming to some conclusions as I have been studying God's Word and praying about the matter of tongues. I am still open to the possibility that I am in error, but these are the things I believe God has been showing me.

I cannot find anything in Scripture that indicates that tongues have ceased today. However, I am still very open to that possibility.

However, I have come to believe that people who use the gift of tongues as an evidence of salvation or filling of Spirit are mistaken. The Bible says that we shall know them by their fruits not their gifts. It also says that tongues are for a sign to them that believe not, not to them that believe. I believe that the gift of tongues was a sign following those who believed the gospel as it was preached by the apostles.Jesus Himself said tongues would be used for that purpose in Mark 16. I believe instances where this was fulfilled was in Acts 10 and Acts 19. Now as for tongues being a sign to unbelievers, I believe that probably still exists today. But I believe those type of tongues are like the ones in Acts 2, where unbelievers heard the gospel preached in their native language by foreigners. In other words, I believe the gift of languages that the speaker has not studied can still be given today for the purpose of witnessing to unbelievers and can occur without an interpreter.

However, I am coming to believe that in the church, tongues should only be spoken if there is someone to give an interpretation. I do not believe that they should be spoken randomly in the congregation without interpretation. I also do not believe women should speak in tongues in the church because it seems that I Corinthians 14 says that women should not prophesy or speak in tongues in the church. However, I certainly believe women can praise God and sing and testify in the church.

I also feel that tongues should not be emphasized any more than other gifts of the Spirit. And I believe that charity, or love, which is a FRUIT of the Spirit, should be emphasized above all.

However I am coming to the conclusion that speaking in tongues in one's prayer closet is a Biblical possibility, though it has not happened to me yet, and I don't think it would be an indication of any spiritual growth if it did happen. I think indicators of spiritual growth include increased spiritual fruit. (Galatians 5:22)

 

[MikeMcK]

I cannot find anything in Scripture that indicates that tongues have ceased today. However, I am still very open to that possibility.

I agree. I believe very much that the gift of tongues still exsists for the edification of the church today but that's a non-essential so I would allow anyone who doesn't believe that the liberty to disagree.

However, I have come to believe that people who use the gift of tongues as an evidence of salvation or filling of Spirit are mistaken. The Bible says that we shall know them by their fruits not their gifts.

I agree. I have seen too many people try to hold their gifts over new believers or believers who may be differently gifted to try to make themselves look superior. This abuse is excatly what Paul warned against.

It also says that tongues are for a sign to them that believe not, not to them that believe.

It does say that but it also says that tongues is for the edification of the church.

I tend to believe that the unbelievers spoken of here are those who witnessed the commissioning of the church in Acts 2. Today, I believe that the main purpose of tongues is for the edification of the chuch.

However, I am coming to believe that in the church, tongues should only be spoken if there is someone to give an interpretation. I do not believe that they should be spoken randomly in the congregation without interpretation.

Right. I've been invited to minister in churches where this happens and I always cringe when somebody does this.

I also do not believe women should speak in tongues in the church because it seems that I Corinthians 14 says that women should not prophesy or speak in tongues in the church.

I would tend to disagree with you there. While I don't believe in women pastors or women holding a position of pastoral authority in the church, I don't necessarily see anything that prohibits them from speaking in tongues, provided it's otherwise done in accordance with scripture.

However I am coming to the conclusion that speaking in tongues in one's prayer closet is a Biblical possibility,

I disagree here. I don't see anything in scripture that supports the idea of tongues as a "private prayer language".

though it has not happened to me yet, and I don't think it would be an indication of any spiritual growth if it did happen./QUOTE]

I wouldn't worry about it. If God wants you to speak in tongues, you'll speak in tongues.

 

[ablikespaintball]

OK, I have been coming to some conclusions as I have been studying God's Word and praying about the matter of tongues. I am still open to the possibility that I am in error, but these are the things I believe God has been showing me.

I cannot find anything in Scripture that indicates that tongues have ceased today. However, I am still very open to that possibility.

However, I have come to believe that people who use the gift of tongues as an evidence of salvation or filling of Spirit are mistaken. The Bible says that we shall know them by their fruits not their gifts. It also says that tongues are for a sign to them that believe not, not to them that believe. I believe that the gift of tongues was a sign following those who believed the gospel as it was preached by the apostles.Jesus Himself said tongues would be used for that purpose in Mark 16. I believe instances where this was fulfilled was in Acts 10 and Acts 19. Now as for tongues being a sign to unbelievers, I believe that probably still exists today. But I believe those type of tongues are like the ones in Acts 2, where unbelievers heard the gospel preached in their native language by foreigners. In other words, I believe the gift of languages that the speaker has not studied can still be given today for the purpose of witnessing to unbelievers and can occur without an interpreter.

However, I am coming to believe that in the church, tongues should only be spoken if there is someone to give an interpretation. I do not believe that they should be spoken randomly in the congregation without interpretation. I also do not believe women should speak in tongues in the church because it seems that I Corinthians 14 says that women should not prophesy or speak in tongues in the church. However, I certainly believe women can praise God and sing and testify in the church.

I also feel that tongues should not be emphasized any more than other gifts of the Spirit. And I believe that charity, or love, which is a FRUIT of the Spirit, should be emphasized above all.

However I am coming to the conclusion that speaking in tongues in one's prayer closet is a Biblical possibility, though it has not happened to me yet, and I don't think it would be an indication of any spiritual growth if it did happen. I think indicators of spiritual growth include increased spiritual fruit. (Galatians 5:22)

You are very right. I know i few churchs where when they pray for someone, the whole congregation will speak in tounges w/o an interpreter. That is very dangerous BECAUSE, there could be witches in the crowd placing curses on them. I definetly believe that you should use it in your prayer closet, and at intercessory prayer.

God Bless,
AB

 

[Iddie4him]

Read the thread that I started about the Existence of the Charismatic gifts. This may help you in your search for proof.

 

[Trish1947]

Quote:

It also says that tongues are for a sign to them that believe not, not to them that believe.

This saying is true.. So who might be in error here? There's something wrong here if we tongue speakers aren't a sign to you, and all people can come up with is "it must be from the devil".

 

[wgjones3]

Speaking in tonuges is very real, but it's not important as far as salvation. The gift of tongues is for the edification of the believer. They know they don't have power over their own tongue, so their personal faith in God is strengthened. If you want this gift, you have to search your heart and ask, believing. I have seen believers given this gift within moments of salvation, I have seen others never receive this gift. Paul even exhorts us to NOT seek the gift of tongues, but seek prophesy instead, to edify the body and not the individual member.

Churches that "require" this are ignoring Paul's teaching entirely, and many are guilty of worshipping the sings and wonders rather than God (remember the example from Exodous, Pharaoh's conjourers could mimic the miracles God performed through Moses--this should give many churches reason for pause). I attended such a church, where the signs and wonders were on display week in and week out, but the fruit was nothing but destruction and many, if not most, of the lives of those who went there are now ruined. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all other things will be added unto you.

 

[Trish1947]

Speaking in tonuges is very real, but it's not important as far as salvation. The gift of tongues is for the edification of the believer. They know they don't have power over their own tongue, so their personal faith in God is strengthened. If you want this gift, you have to search your heart and ask, believing. I have seen believers given this gift within moments of salvation, I have seen others never receive this gift. Paul even exhorts us to NOT seek the gift of tongues, but seek prophesy instead, to edify the body and not the individual member.

Churches that "require" this are ignoring Paul's teaching entirely, and many are guilty of worshipping the sings and wonders rather than God (remember the example from Exodous, Pharaoh's conjourers could mimic the miracles God performed through Moses--this should give many churches reason for pause). I attended such a church, where the signs and wonders were on display week in and week out, but the fruit was nothing but destruction and many, if not most, of the lives of those who went there are now ruined. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, and all other things will be added unto you.

Speaking in tonuges is very real, but it's not important as far as salvation. The gift of tongues is for the edification of the believer. They know they don't have power over their own tongue,

I have never been to a Chrismatic church that made it a requirement to speak in tongues. Yes, it was part of their belief, and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was something that is definatley taught. I don't understand your last sentence in the "quote". If your saying that when they speak in tongues, they have lost control over their tongue, is not true. Any tongue speaker can stop by shutting his mouth. Nothing is forced on a believer.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

.

 

[Crosslight]

Hey,

I speak in tongues in my "prayer closest."
So many times I have been edified, strengthened, and had the "get up and go on" through some very hard spiritual battles because of the gift of tongues.

I know there are some who want the "proof" that you are Baptized in the Holy Spirit by asking you to pray in tongues.. I don't agree with this. I know we all start as babies in Jesus, not all will just jump out and boldly begin speaking. It took me a long time and a long battle before I accepted my gift.

If we are seeking, and if we do not allow ourselves to be "convinced" otherwise, we could all speak in tongues, but my biggest question is this:

If the Lord has given the gift of tongues, "praying in the Spirit", then why wouldn't everyone want it? If it is speaking in the language of God and of angels.. then what would hinder us from wanting it?
If it reveals mysteries to our spirits by communing with the Holy Spirit.. then why would we not be in a rush to receive it?

I thank the Lord for the gift.. it has helped me get through some very tough times that in my own natural, logical, and conventional knowledge.. I would have never survived.

Peace to you all. May He bless you greatly as you walk and seek Him and His ways.

His servant,
stacie

 

[blessed2]

I also do not believe women should speak in tongues in the church because it seems that I Corinthians 14 says that women should not prophesy or speak in tongues in the church.

At that time as well in places today, women where seated separately from the men and it was disrupting for them to call out questions to their husbands across the room.
As per women preachers...i'm not sure either way.
Debra was a judge and prophetess.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I keep on hearing people talk about churches that teach you have to speak in tongues to be saved... but I have never actually been in one or talked to anyone who actually believed that....
Does someone here believe that?
Hobie

 

[Trish1947]

I keep on hearing people talk about churches that teach you have to speak in tongues to be saved... but I have never actually been in one or talked to anyone who actually believed that....
Does someone here believe that?
Hobie

I keep on hearing people talk about churches that teach you have to speak in tongues to be saved... but I have never actually been in one or talked to anyone who actually believed that....
Does someone here believe that?

The day you heard the message of Salvation, and we're convicted by the Holy Spirit, that you were a sinner, and accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Savior is the day you are saved. Now some people are filled at the same time and speak in tongues. But tongues do not save you. Jesus does.

 

[Andrew]

Hobie,

I did meet 2 persons (while I was staying in my Uni hostel 10 years ago) who taught that unless you can speak in tongues, you are not saved. They were from True Jesus Church. Their line of argument is basically this: When one is saved, he has the Holy Spirit in him. So, how does one know he has the Holy Spirit in him? He is able to speak in tongues. So no tongues = no Spirit = no salvation.

That said, other than these 2 persons, I have never met or known of anyone else who teaches that.

 

[Andrew]

But I believe those type of tongues are like the ones in Acts 2, where unbelievers heard the gospel preached in their native language by foreigners.

This concept is totally untrue and is a common argument used by those against tongues.

The Gospel was NEVER preached via tongues in Acts 2. Read carefully, they spoke "...in our own tongues the mighty works of God” (Acts 2:11) in tongues.

They DID NOT preach salvation and forgiveness of sins or faith in Jesus in tongues. The 3,000 DID NOT get saved and baptised after hearing the Gospel in tongues.

This only happened after Peter stood up and spoke to them in his native language, ie Aramaic or Hebrew, preaching to them salvation in Jesus name.

So, the idea that tongues is used to spread the Gospel (based on Acts 2) to foreigners (becos you cant speak their language) is totally untrue.

 

[christiancowgirlca]

I keep on hearing people talk about churches that teach you have to speak in tongues to be saved... but I have never actually been in one or talked to anyone who actually believed that....
Does someone here believe that?
Hobie

I was attending a pentacostal church who had a woman preach to the congregation that in order to have received the holy spirit you MUST have spoken in tongues.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Hobie,

I did meet 2 persons (while I was staying in my Uni hostel 10 years ago) who taught that unless you can speak in tongues, you are not saved. They were from True Jesus Church. Their line of argument is basically this: When one is saved, he has the Holy Spirit in him. So, how does one know he has the Holy Spirit in him? He is able to speak in tongues. So no tongues = no Spirit = no salvation.

That said, other than these 2 persons, I have never met or known of anyone else who teaches that.

Ok... but the OP and numerous other posters seem to imply that this is something that is wide spread and a position held by whole denominations. I suspect it is only a handful of people who teach this and the concern is somewhat blown out of proportion. To this day, I have never met anyone who taught you had to speak in tongues to be saved. I was beginning to think that this was an "urban legend" sort of thing. A heresy is created (that actually does not exist) and then the creators use it to detract from that which is real. Nobody (or as we see here, very few) actually believes you have to speak in tongues to be saved, but it continually comes up as a criticism against charismatics and pentecostal believers because they are the main proponets of tongues.

I was attending a pentacostal church who had a woman preach to the congregation that in order to have received the holy spirit you MUST have spoken in tongues.

This is actually a little different. This teaching does not say you have to speak in tongues to be saved.... only as evidence that you have received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Iddie4him]

I have read thru my Bible quite a few times and have never come across anything that states that to be saved, you must speak in tongues. Whoever is teaching this is wrong, It is however stated in the Bible that all who are touched by the Holy spirit will be given an utterance. I hope that came out intelligently.

 

[Hidden in Christ]

This is actually a little different. This teaching does not say you have to speak in tongues to be saved.... only as evidence that you have received the Holy Spirit.

That's the point. Salvation=receiving the Holy Spirit. Romans 8 says "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." So basically saying speaking in tongues is an evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit is the same thing as saying it's an evidence of salvation, right?

 

[Hidden in Christ]

I agree. I believe very much that the gift of tongues still exsists for the edification of the church today but that's a non-essential so I would allow anyone who doesn't believe that the liberty to disagree.


I agree. I have seen too many people try to hold their gifts over new believers or believers who may be differently gifted to try to make themselves look superior. This abuse is excatly what Paul warned against.


It does say that but it also says that tongues is for the edification of the church.

I tend to believe that the unbelievers spoken of here are those who witnessed the commissioning of the church in Acts 2. Today, I believe that the main purpose of tongues is for the edification of the chuch.


Right. I've been invited to minister in churches where this happens and I always cringe when somebody does this.


I would tend to disagree with you there. While I don't believe in women pastors or women holding a position of pastoral authority in the church, I don't necessarily see anything that prohibits them from speaking in tongues, provided it's otherwise done in accordance with scripture.


I disagree here. I don't see anything in scripture that supports the idea of tongues as a "private prayer language".

though it has not happened to me yet, and I don't think it would be an indication of any spiritual growth if it did happen./QUOTE]

I wouldn't worry about it. If God wants you to speak in tongues, you'll speak in tongues.

MikeMck,
First, let me say that I genuinely appreciate your post. It is an encouragement to me to see that someone else agrees with me, for the most part.

Regarding women speaking in tongues in the church, have you considered I Corinthians 14:34? What is your take on that? Consider the context, and that Paul says this immediately after outlining the acceptable requirements for speaking in tongues and prophecying in the church.

As for tongues being a prayer language, the main thing that convinces me that this is a possibility is I Corinthians 14:28. In this verse, it says that if there is no interpreter for tongues in the church, the person who has the gift of speaking in tongues should speak to himself and to God instead of audibly in the church. I certainly don't think praying in tongues is any indicator of the Holy Spirit praying through a person. I think it is possible for the Holy Spirit to pray through someone just as much in their own language. But I accept prayer in tongues as a Biblical possibility.

To be completely honest (not throwing stones at anyone or anything) I think that people who talk about how much speaking in tongues helps them personally are taking the emphasis away from the Giftgiver and placing it on the gift. I would much rather hear people talk about how their gift has helped someone else besides themselves. That would seem a more convincing miracle and sign to me.

I believe in tongues, but I also believe it is EXTREMELY dangerous to use them or view them in an unbiblical way. I think it is so important to know that everything God has, the devil has a counterfeit for it. I would encourage all of us to walk in wisdom. Christ is returning soon and there are multitudes who need to receive Him or else their end will not be good. And as Christians we have the responsibility to shine God's TRUE light to them.

We should pray that if we are in error in any way that God will show us. I have been doing that, and He has been showing me many things.

Blessings to all of you.

 

[Hidden in Christ]

This concept is totally untrue and is a common argument used by those against tongues.

The Gospel was NEVER preached via tongues in Acts 2. Read carefully, they spoke "...in our own tongues the mighty works of God” (Acts 2:11) in tongues.

They DID NOT preach salvation and forgiveness of sins or faith in Jesus in tongues. The 3,000 DID NOT get saved and baptised after hearing the Gospel in tongues.

This only happened after Peter stood up and spoke to them in his native language, ie Aramaic or Hebrew, preaching to them salvation in Jesus name.

So, the idea that tongues is used to spread the Gospel (based on Acts 2) to foreigners (becos you cant speak their language) is totally untrue.

Well, which mighty works do you think they were declaring when they were speaking and every person was understanding them in their own native language? Do you not think salvation, forgiveness and freedom from sin are mighty works of God?

Blessings.