Does "all things" mean everything?

[razzelflabben]

I think any mature Christian would agree with this. I think the problem arises when teachers make Christianity a self-centered means to an end—whether it be physical (i.e., temporal) health and personal prosperity. When this false teaching become part of a Christian’s thinking, as it sometimes does when people have been mis-taught an unbalanced theology, they will begin to view God as existing primarily for their benefit, comfort, and happiness. God is reduced to a genie in a bottle to make their every wish come true.

Please do not say this attitude does not exist. I hear it on TBN, I see it in a couple of neighboring churches and I hear it on CF (except when someone spells it out in its most stark terms; then it is denied).

~ Hugh D’Mann

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

I wouldn't dream of denying it exists, in fact, I see if often myself. What I will say to you here however is this. I have been spending the bulk of the last two years studying God's love. I won't go into all I have learned here, but one thing I have learned fits well here, in this discussion. Part of the problem with the teaching you are objecting to, goes back to our needs, or the dangers in our lives. We (the human race) think that all there is, is temperal or we think that we know our needs much better than God does. If you want to shine light on the false teaching you are speaking out against, you first must teach that it is God who knows us intimately enough to know what our needs are. It is God who Loves us enough to protect us from those things that hurt us. It is God whose love for us is so vast, so high and deep and wide, that we need to stop trying to form His love to our preceptions and start allowing God's love to do what it was given to do. We need to start by trusting God that He is the living God whose love is eternal, undefiled, pure, and unconditional. And, in going back to my first post on this thread, we begin to trust and seek God not the things of God. Allowing God control/authority over our lives and our world.

You see, we have this massive fight for authority in this world, and the bottom line is that God is the only one who has the right to that authority. If we figured that out, the false teaching you are speaking out against, simply would no longer exist.

 

[Svt4Him]

Okay, then, do you believe that you can sprout wings and fly? You say you do.

If so, this would be a golden opportunity for a sign to confirm the word you preach. Not only would it prove to me that Jesus was speaking literally and not figuratively in Matt. 19.26 and Mark 9.23 but it wouldm prove it to the world--it would make every newscast and front page on the planet. So, if you can give me documented proof that those verses should be taken literally by showing me (and the world) that you can sprout wings and fly then I will gladly admit it and change my interpretation of Matth 19.26; Mark 9.23 and I will never bring this up again.

On the other hand, if you can’t, and you know you can’t, then I hope you will also have the courage admit you are wrong.

But until you can sprout literal wings, or move a literal mountain, or replant a literal sycamore tree by faith, only then will your literal interpretation of those verses prove to be true and not just a theory. Until then, it is just a theory and I am not going to place my faith in an unworkable theory. I will prove all things and hold fast only that which is true (i.e., not theory).


~ Hugh D’Mann

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

Jimbo, you've fallen into your error again, as you will not see me preaching this, unless you can get a quote where I've preached it's possible for men to sprout wings and fly, or anything even close to this. And since I don't believe this, it would be hard for me to fulfill your part of the scripture for you. And admit I was wrong, well Jim, I was wrong again. If you can again show me where I've said this though, otherwise perhaps one of us is simply jumping the gun a bit to prove a point? And did you think this thread would have a different outcome this time?

 

[lismore]

or moved a (literal) mountain.

Travel broadens the mind! I discovered this place on Holidays In Israel.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/mokattam.htm
In one of those meetings in which Pope Abram and a Jew named Jacob Ibn Killis were present, the Pope got the upper hand in the debate. Plotting to take revenge, Ibn Killis quoted the verse where the Lord Jesus said in Mt 17:20: "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to the mountain, Move from here to there, and it will move, nothing will be impossible for you" and demanded him to prove that his religion is right by means of this.
The Caliph saw in this an opportunity to remove the mountain that was spoiling his view. At the same time, if the Christians proved unable to perform this miracle, than it would be proof that the religion of the Christians was wrong and he would be finished with them, or so goes the Legend.
And so, after three days of prayers and fasts by the people throughout the land of Egypt, Simon was chosen to move the Mokattam Mountain. It is said that a great earthquake swept over the mountain. Each time the

people stood up to worship, the mountain was thrust up and the sun would be seen from under it. When the people sat down, the mountain thrust down. This was repeated three times. Afterwards, the Caliph was racked with fear and embraced the Pope warmly and this was a new beginning for a good friendship between them. However, St. Simon went missing and was never found. It is believed that his skeleton was discovered in 1991 in Babylon in the St. Mary's church (the Hanging Church).

 

[razzelflabben]

Travel broadens the mind! I discovered this place on Holidays In Israel.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/mokattam.htm
In one of those meetings in which Pope Abram and a Jew named Jacob Ibn Killis were present, the Pope got the upper hand in the debate. Plotting to take revenge, Ibn Killis quoted the verse where the Lord Jesus said in Mt 17:20: "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to the mountain, Move from here to there, and it will move, nothing will be impossible for you" and demanded him to prove that his religion is right by means of this.
The Caliph saw in this an opportunity to remove the mountain that was spoiling his view. At the same time, if the Christians proved unable to perform this miracle, than it would be proof that the religion of the Christians was wrong and he would be finished with them, or so goes the Legend.
And so, after three days of prayers and fasts by the people throughout the land of Egypt, Simon was chosen to move the Mokattam Mountain. It is said that a great earthquake swept over the mountain. Each time the

people stood up to worship, the mountain was thrust up and the sun would be seen from under it. When the people sat down, the mountain thrust down. This was repeated three times. Afterwards, the Caliph was racked with fear and embraced the Pope warmly and this was a new beginning for a good friendship between them. However, St. Simon went missing and was never found. It is believed that his skeleton was discovered in 1991 in Babylon in the St. Mary's church (the Hanging Church).

Once, I was talking to a non believer and this topic came up. In the spirit of Elijah, I told the person that if they would believe in God and repent, I would take on the challenge and pray that the mountain would move and demonstrate the love and power of a living God. All that was needed was an open heart to believe and a mountain to move. the funny thing about the whole thing was that the man left and did not return. He refused to believe if the mountain moved as well as refusing to choose a mountain. Seems to me we have a powerful enough God when people don't even need to see a mountain move to know that they are wrong. Seems to me that no mountain needs to move if the world will still refuse the bread of life.

 

[lismore]

Once, I was talking to a non believer and this topic came up. In the spirit of Elijah, I told the person that if they would believe in God and repent, I would take on the challenge and pray that the mountain would move and demonstrate the love and power of a living God. All that was needed was an open heart to believe and a mountain to move. the funny thing about the whole thing was that the man left and did not return. He refused to believe if the mountain moved as well as refusing to choose a mountain. Seems to me we have a powerful enough God when people don't even need to see a mountain move to know that they are wrong. Seems to me that no mountain needs to move if the world will still refuse the bread of life.

Interesting story. But perhaps you planted a seed there that will take years to grow. That story from Egypt, the mad muslim ruler had threatened to kill the Christians if they couldn't move the mountain. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say. Perhaps later in life that man will face and situation and remember what you said to him, his only recourse will be God, thats when he will call out to God.

 

[ralangley]

Another idea....

Eastern religions are full of stories of humans that could fly. Modern day occultists claim to know of those with this capacity. Interestingly enough, Christian history also has stories of individuals who flew. St. Francis of Assisi is one, and so is St. Alphonsus Liguori - also known as the Flying Saint. St. Alphonsus additionally had the capacity to bilocate - be two places at once. We in Christianity now consider anyone claiming to bilocate as either crazy or a devil worshipper. But perhaps these gifts are from God and are an example of what it means to truly have faith. We just turned it over to the devil out of our own fear or the recognition of our own shortcomings.

Having the faith to move a mountain might just be literal afterall.

 

[Libre]

Mr 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Strong's says this about the wording "all": [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go afterChrist? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...[/FONT]

 

[razzelflabben]

Interesting story. But perhaps you planted a seed there that will take years to grow. That story from Egypt, the mad muslim ruler had threatened to kill the Christians if they couldn't move the mountain. Necessity is the mother of invention as they say. Perhaps later in life that man will face and situation and remember what you said to him, his only recourse will be God, thats when he will call out to God.

maybe, we never know how our behavior and how our words will ultimately affect someone else which is why it is important to always behave in a manor that honors God.

My point however, was that God doesn't usually need for us to move mountains (literal) so why do we think we need to? If it is enough to speak the word of God, then what would be the advantage of "moving a mountain"?

that being said, sometimes, the mountains we need to move are not literal mountains but rather problems in the lives of God's people. Mountains to big for them to move, but in love, the mountains move, situations change, and lives are transformed. Just a thought.

 

[razzelflabben]

Another idea....

Eastern religions are full of stories of humans that could fly. Modern day occultists claim to know of those with this capacity. Interestingly enough, Christian history also has stories of individuals who flew. St. Francis of Assisi is one, and so is St. Alphonsus Liguori - also known as the Flying Saint. St. Alphonsus additionally had the capacity to bilocate - be two places at once. We in Christianity now consider anyone claiming to bilocate as either crazy or a devil worshipper. But perhaps these gifts are from God and are an example of what it means to truly have faith. We just turned it over to the devil out of our own fear or the recognition of our own shortcomings.

Having the faith to move a mountain might just be literal afterall.

seems to me that is where testing the spirits comes into the picture.

 

[razzelflabben]

Mr 14:36 And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

Strong's says this about the wording "all": [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go afterChrist? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...[/FONT]

okay, this idea has come up a couple of times now, so let's explore it. If "all things" here is figurative, then what would be "impossible" for us? What should we expect not to be able to do? Remember all the miracles in the bible. Which of those is imposible? What other things are impossible. Was it impossible for Elijah to pray that it would not rain and the rains held off for 3 1/2 years? That would be an example of holding back nature

What of healing? Authority over sickness and death

What of Enoch and Elijah who never saw death?

What of .... how many instances of God's authority over all and giving that authority to man will it take to know that God's authority is all and final?

 

[ralangley]

okay, this idea has come up a couple of times now, so let's explore it. If "all things" here is figurative, then what would be "impossible" for us? What should we expect not to be able to do? Remember all the miracles in the bible. Which of those is imposible? What other things are impossible. Was it impossible for Elijah to pray that it would not rain and the rains held off for 3 1/2 years? That would be an example of holding back nature

What of healing? Authority over sickness and death

What of Enoch and Elijah who never saw death?

What of .... how many instances of God's authority over all and giving that authority to man will it take to know that God's authority is all and final?

Yep. Great point. At what point does our impossible become possible through faith?

 

[ralangley]

seems to me that is where testing the spirits comes into the picture.

Yeah. And, human beings are notorious for subverting the will of God to serve their flesh. Perhaps we fear power because at some level we recognize our inability to handle it with humility. Unless we're very mature and developed, we end up using power to serve our interests and/or greed. IMO, God's plan and expectation is for us to be very mature and developed.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Then no one in the 2000 year history of the Christian church has ever believed, Dids, even those who, like you, boast that they do...

?
Some people find it so easy to lie against others. Just bare faced lies, twisting of the truth, misrepresentation, and false witnessing.
I find it impossible to discuss anything with these. Everything one says is just more fuel for them to ruin themselves and others.
Hence... the Dids will just bow out and leave you to think whatever you want.
Happy Holidays to all!

 

[Svt4Him]

dids, have you been lied about too? I think I shall join you.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Can God make an object so large that He cannot move it?

 

[IchoozJC]

Can God make an object so large that He cannot move it?

When did you stop beating your wife?

 

[WileyCoyote]

Are we to believe that it is possible for me to sprout wings and fly if I just believe I can?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTahrYXCChI

 

[razzelflabben]

Yep. Great point. At what point does our impossible become possible through faith?

Let's add some more scripture to the issue, let's talk about Jesus temptations. Just because He was able to ... turn stones into bread...doesn't mean He did it, and why? Because it would not have glorified the Father. Seems to me we should be taking a lesson from Jesus own life here and allowing God to do the miracles that He sees fit, including but not limited to moving literal mountains, and flying men. Seems to me we should be taking a lesson from Jesus own life and ask only for the things that would glorify God, not self.

Ah well... (I'm not suggesting you ralangley specifically don't just talking in general, including talking to myself)

 

[razzelflabben]

?
Some people find it so easy to lie against others. Just bare faced lies, twisting of the truth, misrepresentation, and false witnessing.
I find it impossible to discuss anything with these. Everything one says is just more fuel for them to ruin themselves and others.
Hence... the Dids will just bow out and leave you to think whatever you want.
Happy Holidays to all!

so forgetting some people, why not share with us your stand on all this dids?

 

[razzelflabben]

Can God make an object so large that He cannot move it?

Had a whole thread about this question and my children found a possible solution to the question. Problem was that some were so closed minded about what they wanted to believe that they couldn't conceive of the possible. All to often, we do just that, we put something in our hearts and minds and refuse anything that might challenge it, discarding it without thought or cause, often times getting not only defensive, but down right hateful in the process.

(not speaking of anyone in particular)