Does a "Sunday Law" make sense?

[OntheDL]

Thanks.

It might be helpful to go one step further and mention that, when President Obama was elected, he did not establish an entirely new covenant with America that was based on a different government (such as a monarchy or a communist regime). Rather, he is just another president in a line of presidents operating under the same government and relying on the legislature to set each year the tax expectations.

It's apples and oranges.

BFA

Exactly. Apply that to theology. Jesus didn't established an entirely new covenant with the Christians based on a different set of rules. Rather He ratified the same covenant established at the fall of man operating under the same set of rules. Therefore to answer the previous question...He didn't have to re-affirm the sabbath. It was never in question. It's the same government under God, at least for the professed believers.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Jesus didn't established an entirely new covenant with the Christians based on a different set of rules.

You have a great knack for cutting through the heart of our difference in perspective. I admire that. Not sure, but our difference may be in our understanding of Hebrews 8:9 and Galatians 4:24-30. We may have covered this ground already.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

You have a great knack for cutting through the heart of our difference in perspective. I admire that. Not sure, but our difference may be in our understanding of Hebrews 8:9 and Galatians 4:24-30. We may have covered this ground already.

BFA

BFA,

Amen and amen. Our two qualities of agreement in Jesus Christ.

In the appointed time of the Lord, the third quality in Jesus Christ will come.

Then we can be redeemed by his blood, together in one Body, as kings and priests unto our God and we will serve on the earth, even during the "1000 years."

Joe

 

[Princessdi]

.....And you assume this because.......?

It's not the SDA church. It's all who receive and practice the three angels message. In fact we know the vast majority of SDAs won't even make it.

 

[OntheDL]

.....And you assume this because.......?

You are not sporting a SDA icon, are you a SDA? If so, let me ask this question, if SDA church today is the Laodicean church, how many of the Laodicean church will go to heaven? The question is none.

Ellen White saw not 1 in 20 in her days was ready for Christ's return (95% not ready). And not 1 in 100 understood the plan of salvation in her days. Is the condition of the church improved or deteriorated in these last days?

Not solely because Ellen White wrote about it, you only have to look for yourself at the SDA church today: to see to the condition of the church; to see what's being preached; to see the compromises and apostasy crept into church; to see what's the percentage of member still believe and practice the message God gave to the 1844 remnant.

 

[Kira Light]

You are not sporting a SDA icon, are you a SDA? If so, let me ask this question, if SDA church today is the Laodicean church, how many of the Laodicean church will go to heaven? The question is none.

Ellen White saw not 1 in 20 in her days was ready for Christ's return (95% not ready). And not 1 in 100 understood the plan of salvation in her days. Is the condition of the church improved or deteriorated in these last days?

Not solely because Ellen White wrote about it, you only have to look for yourself at the SDA church today: to see to the condition of the church; to see what's being preached; to see the compromises and apostasy crept into church; to see what's the percentage of member still believe and practice the message God gave to the 1844 remnant.

There are only 15 million or so SDA's so if the vast majority of them don't get saved then how many are we talking? Do you believe in a literal 144,000?

 

[OntheDL]

There are only 15 million or so SDA's so if the vast majority of them don't get saved then how many are we talking? Do you believe in a literal 144,000?

Haven't we noticed the majority of the people today believe in the traditional Adventist message are people from outside, not born in the church? The true church is not the SDA corporate structure. The true church is the individual true believers. Ellen White wrote the majority of them are outside the SDA church, they would receive and accept the message with the latter rain.

Do I believe in the literal 144000? All the numbers in Revelation are literal. So I do believe in that. But that's irrelevant in a sense.

How many people got into the ark? Eight! So if 144000 are the last living generation, that's a great multitude.

 

[Kira Light]

Good point. I'm happy to hear God came into your life. Still seems really far fetched to me, though. All humanity opposed to the special people in the SDA church?

I guess the scenario of Jesus coming in glory to the earth would seem really impossble to an unbeleiver, too. We all have the right to our beliefs. I'm not sure the Sunday law thing is directly Biblical, however. If God intended to use the Sabbath as the dividing line between saved and unsaved people, He could at least have mentioned something, anything, about the Sabbath to the Gentile churches.

If Jesus had just said we must all keep the Sabbath, every Christian today would! Countless billions would have been saved. That would have seriously messed up SDA end times prophecy, though.

 

[Kira Light]

Haven't we noticed the majority of the people today believe in the traditional Adventist message are people from outside, not born in the church? The true church is not the SDA corporate structure. The true church is the individual true believers. Ellen White wrote the majority of them are outside the SDA church, they would receive and accept the message with the latter rain.

Do I believe in the literal 144000? All the numbers in Revelation are literal. So I do believe in that. But that's irrelevant in a sense.

How many people got into the ark? Eight! So if 144000 are the last living generation, that's a great multitude.

What do SDA's have to do to be saved? Most of them still go to church and try not to watch TV on Saturday. What else is needed?

 

[ricker]

If Jesus had just said we must all keep the Sabbath, every Christian today would! Countless billions would have been saved. That would have seriously messed up SDA end times prophecy, though.

Sorry, folks. I decided to remove myself from this conversation. God bless!

 

[Kira Light]

This thread is kind of winding down and I thank everyone for sharing their thoughts!

Just trying to sum up what exactly is supposed to happen here...

-The Antichrist will come along when things get really bad around the world and save the earth from various wars and natural disasters.

-I assume the Antichrist then makes people worship the other beast (the pope), right?

-All Muslims, Jews, Atheists, and everyone else becomes Catholic and goes to church on Sunday (and receive the mark of the beast)

-The Antichrist and the pope bans Saturday keeping and chases the SDAs in to the mountains.

-SDAs can't buy or sell anything because they do not carry the mark of the beast.

-Some SDA's (Most?) are too weak and give in

-Just when things get as bad as they possibly can... the second coming happens!

 

[Princessdi]

Why not? Shouldn't we worship God every day? Is there a divine prohibition against worshipping God on Sunday?

Look, BFA, I just explained the doctrine, not arguing it's biblical validity.

Are you suggesting that "corporate worship" is the same thing as "keeping the day?" Or does "keeping the day" involve so much more than mere corporate worship?

Good question. One of the important components to the doctrine is being forbidden to hold corporate worship services.

With all sincerity I respect that this is your view. I know many other sincere, wonderful people who have reached the same conclusion. What I'm missing is the Biblical basis for believing this to be true. If I could find that, I'd believe it too.

To be honest, I struggle with this portion of the doctrine the most. Actually, I struggle with most of it for the reasons I gave earlier, expecting a creature known to be the father of disobedience to follow the script for "your"[general] biblical version of end times prophecy. Plus several other issues......."PLEASE be patient with me, God is not through with me yet!"

 

[Princessdi]

Oh yes, I am SDA, all of my nearly 53 years. However since SDA membership carries absolutely no salvific weight, it can't be used like a "get out of jail free" card on Judgement Day, and I have absolutely no problem in being identified as a follower of Christ without proclaiming SDA membership, it is not a lable that I need to "sport".

You are not sporting a SDA icon, are you a SDA? If so, let me ask this question, if SDA church today is the Laodicean church, how many of the Laodicean church will go to heaven? The question is none.

Ellen White saw not 1 in 20 in her days was ready for Christ's return (95% not ready). And not 1 in 100 understood the plan of salvation in her days. Is the condition of the church improved or deteriorated in these last days?

Not solely because Ellen White wrote about it, you only have to look for yourself at the SDA church today: to see to the condition of the church; to see what's being preached; to see the compromises and apostasy crept into church; to see what's the percentage of member still believe and practice the message God gave to the 1844 remnant.

 

[Princessdi]

I love it!!! LOL!! We should have wrote books about our end time prophecy, too. Would you not say our version also set to a fictional story is at least as entertaining as The Left Behind Series?


This thread is kind of winding down and I thank everyone for sharing their thoughts!

Just trying to sum up what exactly is supposed to happen here...

-The Antichrist will come along when things get really bad around the world and save the earth from various wars and natural disasters.

-I assume the Antichrist then makes people worship the other beast (the pope), right?

-All Muslims, Jews, Atheists, and everyone else becomes Catholic and goes to church on Sunday (and receive the mark of the beast)

Not sure if they all will become RCC, but they will conitinue to worship on the day of the beast, which is Sunday. I believe inold SDA lingo it was called "waundering after the beast".

-The Antichrist and the pope bans Saturday keeping and chases the SDAs in to the mountains.

-SDAs can't buy or sell anything because they do not carry the mark of the beast.

-Some SDA's (Most?) are too weak and give in

yes, we are an elite group, and then there is the even more elite group. The first group, like the rest of the world is just spinning their wheels. LOL!!! This thing might need a little tweeking........

-Just when things get as bad as they possibly can... the second coming happens!

Right.

 

[Kira Light]

I love it!!! LOL!! We should have wrote books about our end time prophecy, too. Would you not say our version also set to a fictional story is at least as entertaining as The Left Behind Series?


This thread is kind of winding down and I thank everyone for sharing their thoughts!

Just trying to sum up what exactly is supposed to happen here...

-The Antichrist will come along when things get really bad around the world and save the earth from various wars and natural disasters.

-I assume the Antichrist then makes people worship the other beast (the pope), right?

-All Muslims, Jews, Atheists, and everyone else becomes Catholic and goes to church on Sunday (and receive the mark of the beast)

Not sure if they all will become RCC, but they will conitinue to worship on the day of the beast, which is Sunday. I believe inold SDA lingo it was called "waundering after the beast".

-The Antichrist and the pope bans Saturday keeping and chases the SDAs in to the mountains.

-SDAs can't buy or sell anything because they do not carry the mark of the beast.

-Some SDA's (Most?) are too weak and give in

yes, we are an elite group, and then there is the even more elite group. The first group, like the rest of the world is just spinning their wheels. LOL!!! This thing might need a little tweeking........

-Just when things get as bad as they possibly can... the second coming happens!

Right.

I think it has "left behind" beat!

You have the entire universe watching with bated breath to see if the SDA's can keep on keeping on while the Antichrist, the pope, and pretty much everyone else chases them off into the mountains!

 

[klatyla]

Hebrews 4:

Therefore God again set a certain day calling it today, when a long time later he spoke through David as was said before:
Today if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts.
There remains then a Sabbath Rest for the peope of God. For anyone who enters Gods rest also rest from his own work just as God did from his.

The revelation here for me was that God in the days of old yes said remember the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy, and then when Jesus came as with the greatest commandments of all Love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your mind and with all your soul and second being Love your neighbour as you love yourself. These 2 commandments which Jesus gave us was not to make the old commandments obsolete but to fullfill, because in obedience to these two commandments it is an automatic obedience to the Ten Commandments. In saying this, Sabbath Day I believe was again covered by what God says here. He spoke about the old when God said rest on the Seventh Day that it had no value back then and said because of their disobedience they will never enter my rest.

Then he says in vs 7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David as was said before 'Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hears.
vs 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God for anyone who enters Gods rest also rest from his own work just as God did from his.

God hear speaks the very essence in regards to Sabbath, not about it being a physical day but a spiritual rest, where when our lives are completely walked in the obedience of our Father and our lives are not ours but his, then we have entered into the rest God speaks about, where we have stop labouring and trying to walk this life on our own, in our own strength, but have fully surrendered to God and entered into his rest Amen So in this, for my self and pray that this will bless others, it is not about the physical day but spiritual rest. As long as we walk in obedience to God, whatever this world throws at us, we are confident and know God will lead us in the righteous path according to his will not anyone elses or our own, but his Amen.
So the real question is, are we thinking about this with our minds or are we being led by the spirit of the Lord who we know is the righteous and only way, and we in our inner spirit will know that in whatever path God takes us through, we walk in confidence knowing the promises he has given us, that we must let all our petitions be known to him and not to be anxious about anything. Amen Be Blessed!!!

 

[Cribstyl]

Hebrews 4:

Therefore God again set a certain day calling it today, when a long time later he spoke through David as was said before:
Today if you hear his voice do not harden your hearts.
There remains then a Sabbath Rest for the peope of God. For anyone who enters Gods rest also rest from his own work just as God did from his.

The revelation here for me was that God in the days of old yes said remember the Sabbath Day to keep it Holy, and then when Jesus came as with the greatest commandments of all Love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your mind and with all your soul and second being Love your neighbour as you love yourself. These 2 commandments which Jesus gave us was not to make the old commandments obsolete but to fullfill, because in obedience to these two commandments it is an automatic obedience to the Ten Commandments. In saying this, Sabbath Day I believe was again covered by what God says here. He spoke about the old when God said rest on the Seventh Day that it had no value back then and said because of their disobedience they will never enter my rest.

Then he says in vs 7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David as was said before 'Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hears.
vs 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God for anyone who enters Gods rest also rest from his own work just as God did from his.

God hear speaks the very essence in regards to Sabbath, not about it being a physical day but a spiritual rest, where when our lives are completely walked in the obedience of our Father and our lives are not ours but his, then we have entered into the rest God speaks about, where we have stop labouring and trying to walk this life on our own, in our own strength, but have fully surrendered to God and entered into his rest Amen So in this, for my self and pray that this will bless others, it is not about the physical day but spiritual rest. As long as we walk in obedience to God, whatever this world throws at us, we are confident and know God will lead us in the righteous path according to his will not anyone elses or our own, but his Amen.
So the real question is, are we thinking about this with our minds or are we being led by the spirit of the Lord who we know is the righteous and only way, and we in our inner spirit will know that in whatever path God takes us through, we walk in confidence knowing the promises he has given us, that we must let all our petitions be known to him and not to be anxious about anything. Amen Be Blessed!!!

This is Crib and I approve of this message.


The Sabbath was a sign and the reality is the rest we find in Jesus Christ.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.



Isa 11:10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

 

[k4c]

This is Crib and I approve of this message.

The Sabbath was a sign and the reality is the rest we find in Jesus Christ.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

Isa 11:10And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Well I'm a child of God and I don't approve of this message...

The word (rest: sabbatismos ), as it relates to the Sabbath, and the word (rest: anapano), as it relates to the rest Jesus gives us, are two different words.

The rest found in the Sabbath is a ceasing from labor to honor a specific time.

Hebrews 4:9 There must still be, therefore, a seventh-day rest (sabbatismos) reserved for God's people,

The rest we have in Jesus has to do with, and came as a result of sin. The holiness of the seventh day came before sin and was never part of the shadows that were instituted as a result of sin. The seventh day of creation was blessed and set apart as a witness or light that passes through time to testify of creation and it's Creator.

The rest we have in Jesus means that we no longer have to struggle to be acceptable to God because we are accepted in the Beloved, who is Jesus the Christ.

Ephesians 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

One rest (sabbatismos) came through creation and one rest (anapano) came as a result of sin.

 

[Stryder06]

It is very true that I have been exposed to the arguments of men. What has been lacking is the teaching of Scripture indicating that the sabbath is the seal of God and that Sunday worship, when it will be enforced by law, will be the mark of the beast. I respect that this is your conclusion, but I truly could not articulate a Biblical basis for it. Until I can, I can't adopt it.

BFA

I can respect that. The way I see it though, one need only look at the scriptures closely and they shall be able to see clearly that the sabbath is the seal of God.

The Lord promised that Israel would His nation of priests so long as they kept His law. Peter calls the church a royal priesthood.

I believe in Ezekiel and in Lev or Deut (can't remember which book, sorry) that God said the sabbath would be a sign between Him and His people and that it would be a perpetual covenant forever (Israel).

Now the problem we'll have here is that you'll most likely say that Israel's sign doesn't apply to the church. Think about it like this though. The sabbath was a sign all the way up till Christ comes. The Jews that accept Christ and His sacrifice would still remember that the sabbath was called a perpetual covenant between God and them. Wouldn't it only make sense that the same Jews who had this promise, who started the church, would teach the converts to Christianity, that the sabbath was a sign for them as well?

 

[Stryder06]

This thread is kind of winding down and I thank everyone for sharing their thoughts!

Just trying to sum up what exactly is supposed to happen here...

-The Antichrist will come along when things get really bad around the world and save the earth from various wars and natural disasters.

-I assume the Antichrist then makes people worship the other beast (the pope), right?

-All Muslims, Jews, Atheists, and everyone else becomes Catholic and goes to church on Sunday (and receive the mark of the beast)

-The Antichrist and the pope bans Saturday keeping and chases the SDAs in to the mountains.

-SDAs can't buy or sell anything because they do not carry the mark of the beast.

-Some SDA's (Most?) are too weak and give in

-Just when things get as bad as they possibly can... the second coming happens!

The subject is a touch more complicated then the summation you've provided. It's not about everyone becoming "Adventist" or "Cathoilc" but the world being polarized into two groups: Those who keep the commandments of God, thus declaring their allegiance to Him, and those who keep the commandments fo men, thus declaring their allegiance to him.

I don't think the whole buying and selling this is going to be "Oh you're Adventist! You can't buy from here!" But more along the lines of us being persecuted for our faith, and as such we will be in hiding. Kind of like the good ol dark ages, when the fires of persecution purged the church and drew them closer to each other and their God.