Does a "Sunday Law" make sense?

[Byfaithalone1]

After Pres Obama was elected, he didn't say we have to keep paying taxes.

Actually, this is not a presidential decision. It is a legislative decision. The legislature decides each year what our tax responsibility will be.

BFA

 

[Kira Light]

Thanks everyone for their input!

One thing that kind of stands out about this view of the ends times... The Antichrist comes along and forces everyone to stop worshiping on Saturday and start worshiping on Sunday, right? So, where is the gain for satan in this? He wouldn't gain any new souls for doing this!

Think about it. Right now there is the remnant SDA church and whatever other scattered law-keepers around the world. They are saved, everyone else is lost. What changes when the Antichrist makes all those who are lost anyway go to church on Sunday? The true-believers will still keep Saturday until the bitter end...

So, the Antichrist comes along and goes through all this trouble of performing great miracles just to take the souls of the people he already has...

You could say SOME of the remnant will be swayed. Satan goes through all this trouble to deceive the weak ones.. But, weren't they already lost if they were so weak?

Plus, I really can't see any SDA switching sides at this point in the game when all of their prophecies just came true before their very eyes! Heck, I would rejoin the SDA church in a second if I saw all this happen! I would guess the SDA numbers would swell under these circumstances!

 

[OntheDL]

Even if the unthinkable happens and everyone is forced to worship on Sunday, what would stop anyone from continuing to keep Saturday as well? I mean, you don't have to go to church on Saturday in order to keep the Sabbath.

Will you be forced to go to work and watch tv on Saturday?

And couldn't you just start worshiping on Sunday as well in order to avoid the mark of the beast that will keep you from buying anything? What is wrong with worshiping God every day?

I guess a more specific question is, what will the "Sunday Law" do specifically that will force people to break the 4th commandment?

Was Noah's warning of destruction by flood so irrational while the world had never seen rain before?

The bible tells us the sabbath is a memorial of the Creation and it's also a sign, distinguishing mark of sanctification of God over His people. So the Mark of beast counteracts it. It would deny God's authority over His creation.

When the question is presented before the whole world, just as Nebuchadnezzar's decree of worship enforced by a death decree, everyone would have to decide who to serve.

God, the Creator? By honouring His Sabbath and refusing to bow down to the golden image of Babylon when Sunday worship is enforced in America. Or the created being? By rejecting the true 7th-day Sabbath and give into Sunday the mark of creative power of a created being.

It's true the 3 Hebrews could have bowed down to the golden image but prayed to Jehovah in silence. Who would have known? But it's a matter of principle.

Daniel 3
17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. 18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

The apocalyptic scene of Daniel 3 paints a continuous biblical theme: God will deliver those who are obedient even unto death.

 

[OntheDL]

Actually, this is not a presidential decision. It is a legislative decision. The legislature decides each year what our tax responsibility will be.

BFA

Good way to attack the strawman.

 

[OntheDL]

Thanks everyone for their input!

One thing that kind of stands out about this view of the ends times... The Antichrist comes along and forces everyone to stop worshiping on Saturday and start worshiping on Sunday, right? So, where is the gain for satan in this? He wouldn't gain any new souls for doing this!

Think about it. Right now there is the remnant SDA church and whatever other scattered law-keepers around the world. They are saved, everyone else is lost. What changes when the Antichrist makes all those who are lost anyway go to church on Sunday? The true-believers will still keep Saturday until the bitter end...

So, the Antichrist comes along and goes through all this trouble of performing great miracles just to take the souls of the people he already has...

You could say SOME of the remnant will be swayed. Satan goes through all this trouble to deceive the weak ones.. But, weren't they already lost if they were so weak?

Plus, I really can't see any SDA switching sides at this point in the game when all of their prophecies just came true before their very eyes! Heck, I would rejoin the SDA church in a second if I saw all this happen! I would guess the SDA numbers would swell under these circumstances!

Think about it...God can snap a finger, satan and his host of demons will be gone from eternity. But Satan knows God will not do that and leaving an impression to the rest of the universe that God rules by fear.

So to win the great Controversy with God, Satan can only hope to convince the universe that mankind would rather choose him and his rules and reject God and His laws. If he had convinced a third of the angels, he will no doubt try to convince man as he had done in the garden of Eden.

Man was created with the ability to weigh the evidence and the freedom to chose. If somehow all of mankind decide to chose him and reject God, then Satan can stand to make a pretty good case that he, instead of God should be the ruler of the universe and if God should eradicate Satan and his followers from eternity, God would be an unjust God. God is not willing to do just that and risk the security of eternity by planting the seed of fear and discontent.

Thus the true remnant must demonstrate to the universe when the final crisis presents itself that they would rather die and chose God than to live and chose Satan.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Kira Light]

Think about it...God can snap a finger, satan and his host of demons will be gone from eternity. But Satan knows God will not do that and leaving an impression to the rest of the universe that God rules by fear.

So to win the great Controversy with God, Satan can only hope to convince the universe that mankind would rather choose him and his rules and reject God and His laws. If he had convinced a third of the angels, he will no doubt try to convince man as he had done in the garden of Eden.

Man was created with the ability to weigh the evidence and the freedom to chose. If somehow all of mankind decide to chose him and reject God, then Satan can stand to make a pretty good case that he, instead of God should be the ruler of the universe and if God should eradicate Satan and his followers from eternity, God would be an unjust God. God is not willing to do just that and risk the security of eternity by planting the seed of fear and discontent.

Thus the true remnant must demonstrate to the universe when the final crisis presents itself that they would rather die and chose God than to live and chose Satan.

Hope this makes sense.

I understand what you are saying.

I can't believe that everything boils down to the universe waiting for the SDA church to demonstrate to them that they will not stop keeping the Sabbath under any circumstance. I don't see the evidence for it, but lets leave that for other threads.

 

[Princessdi]

Ok?! That's all I'm sayin'! Obedience is not his strong point. But, as the old Jame Cleveland song says, "Please be patient with me, God is not through with me yet".

It is a little strange that Satan would follow orders like this when he knows exactly how it will end.

 

[visionary]

Even if the unthinkable happens and everyone is forced to worship on Sunday, what would stop anyone from continuing to keep Saturday as well? I mean, you don't have to go to church on Saturday in order to keep the Sabbath.

Will you be forced to go to work and watch tv on Saturday?

And couldn't you just start worshiping on Sunday as well in order to avoid the mark of the beast that will keep you from buying anything? What is wrong with worshiping God every day?

I guess a more specific question is, what will the "Sunday Law" do specifically that will force people to break the 4th commandment?

HOw simple can it be.. how about an acknowledgement of the authority to dictate sunday rest? knowing God wants no other gods before Him..

 

[Princessdi]

Soo, I have already expressed my No. 1 issue will [anybody's] end time prophecies, right? Here is another reason. Lots of questions left unanswered. They realy do require 100% buy in to the total doctrinal package.

I can answer that for everyone, satan is the real pwer behind the antichrist. So satan would gain all of those who worship the antichrist. I understand that this doesn't make much sense to SDA prophecy or even doctrine, because many do believe that one has to be worshipping on Saturday to be saved anyway, and all that aren't are loss. it does knod of look as if we have satan spinning his wheels, so to speak.

Now, as for Adventist changing their position. The COI changed their like they changed clothes and they witnessed all thos miracles. You have Peter int eh NT who followed Jesus for 3 1/2 years, saw Him on the Mount of Transfiguration, and still denied Him not one but three times. All SDAs have at this point is what we believe to be biblical doctrine..........what is to stop some from jumpling ship when their lives, or worse yet of their families, are at stake. It is the doctrine that many will be tortured and killed.

Thanks everyone for their input!

One thing that kind of stands out about this view of the ends times... The Antichrist comes along and forces everyone to stop worshiping on Saturday and start worshiping on Sunday, right? So, where is the gain for satan in this? He wouldn't gain any new souls for doing this!

Think about it. Right now there is the remnant SDA church and whatever other scattered law-keepers around the world. They are saved, everyone else is lost. What changes when the Antichrist makes all those who are lost anyway go to church on Sunday? The true-believers will still keep Saturday until the bitter end...

So, the Antichrist comes along and goes through all this trouble of performing great miracles just to take the souls of the people he already has...

You could say SOME of the remnant will be swayed. Satan goes through all this trouble to deceive the weak ones.. But, weren't they already lost if they were so weak?

Plus, I really can't see any SDA switching sides at this point in the game when all of their prophecies just came true before their very eyes! Heck, I would rejoin the SDA church in a second if I saw all this happen! I would guess the SDA numbers would swell under these circumstances!

 

[ricker]

Ever heard of the saying 'there is no atheist in the bomb shelter'?

I was an atheist and it took one event to change it. So considering the perils of the last days and the miracles taking place, it would not be a problem.

Good point. I'm happy to hear God came into your life. Still seems really far fetched to me, though. All humanity opposed to the special people in the SDA church?

I guess the scenario of Jesus coming in glory to the earth would seem really impossble to an unbeleiver, too. We all have the right to our beliefs. I'm not sure the Sunday law thing is directly Biblical, however. If God intended to use the Sabbath as the dividing line between saved and unsaved people, He could at least have mentioned something, anything, about the Sabbath to the Gentile churches.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If God intended to use the Sabbath as the dividing line between saved and unsaved people, He could at least have mentioned something, anything, about the Sabbath to the Gentile churches.

Sabbath keeping is only a salvational issue if you have the knowledge of it...many, many martyrs that were killed during the dark ages, standing against the tyranny of the Catholic church and standing for Bible truth, they will be redeemed even though they were worshiping ignorantly on Sunday. The Bible tells us that God winks in our times of ignorance...

Acts 17:30,31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

It has been stated on this forum before that the only reason why Adventists seem so focused on Sabbath reform is because it is the one Commandment that is being rejected by the Christian world. We would gladly harp on about adultery if that was the major issue facing Gods people.

The fourth Commandment is also represents the seal of God as it signifies His title and domain and His supremacy over us.

 

[Kira Light]

Sabbath keeping is only a salvational issue if you have the knowledge of it...many, many martyrs that were killed during the dark ages, standing against the tyranny of the Catholic church and standing for Bible truth, they will be redeemed even though they were worshiping ignorantly on Sunday. The Bible tells us that God winks in our times of ignorance...

Acts 17:30,31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

It has been stated on this forum before that the only reason why Adventists seem so focused on Sabbath reform is because it is the one Commandment that is being rejected by the Christian world. We would gladly harp on about adultery if that was the major issue facing Gods people.

The fourth Commandment is also represents the seal of God as it signifies His title and domain and His supremacy over us.

Why do these dark age martyrs get mercy yet billions of Christians today don't? Or do they? I'm confused.

Also, if ignorance can get you into heaven via a wink, why fight it? Lets get as many souls saved as possible. If ignorance accomplishes that, it is fine by me..

 

[visionary]

It is a test...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Why do these dark age martyrs get mercy yet billions of Christians today don't? Or do they? I'm confused.

Also, if ignorance can get you into heaven via a wink, why fight it? Lets get as many souls saved as possible. If ignorance accomplishes that, it is fine by me..

As far as modern day Christians, I don't know if they can plead ignorance on the Sabbath issue.. the message has been proclaimed since the mid 1850's and every Christian has access to a Bible. Sincere followers of Christ have wondered (by the Holy Spirit) at some point, if the Bible states Sabbath as God's holy day and Jesus was the Lord of the Sabbath, then why do I keep Sunday as holy? Asking and accepting a pastors opinion I don't believe will excuse a person but I do not obviously know the mind of God or can make judgement on any man. The pastors and leaders of these flocks will be held accountable for those souls they lead astray but does not give the individual a free pass, imo.

 

[Stryder06]

With all sincerity I respect that this is your view. I know many other sincere, wonderful people who have reached the same conclusion. What I'm missing is the Biblical basis for believing this to be true. If I could find that, I'd believe it too.

BFA

With all sincerity I don't think so because you've been exposed to our teachings regarding this matter already and you haven't accepted it.

We teach that the sabbath is the seal of God and that sunday worship, when it will be enforced by law, will be the mark of the beast. The persecution of those who do not have the mark of the beast is foretold in Revelation, along with the working of miralces by demonic spirits.

 

[Stryder06]

It is a little strange that Satan would follow orders like this when he knows exactly how it will end.

Not really. Satan knew He'd lose to Christ at Calvary. It didn't stop him from trying to defeat Him in the wilderness.

God doesn't foretell future events in a "This is what will happen because I deem it to be so" sort of way, but rather because He knows how individuals, including the devil will react He says "This is what will happen because this is what XYZ will do..."

Remember Christ predicted the fall of Judas while Judas was among them. That didn't stop him from betraying the Lord though.

 

[Stryder06]

Good point. I'm happy to hear God came into your life. Still seems really far fetched to me, though. All humanity opposed to the special people in the SDA church?

I guess the scenario of Jesus coming in glory to the earth would seem really impossble to an unbeleiver, too. We all have the right to our beliefs. I'm not sure the Sunday law thing is directly Biblical, however. If God intended to use the Sabbath as the dividing line between saved and unsaved people, He could at least have mentioned something, anything, about the Sabbath to the Gentile churches.

The assumption that He didn't is due to the amount of misinformation the church has been feed. There were many individuals who kept the sabbath as the day of worship. In particular I know there were churches in Ethiopia that kept the sabbath until the RCC came in and forced them to stop.

I told my wife that I believe the Lord is allowing things to happen so that He can break once and for all the confusion that Satan has brought among His people. When the law is brought forth there won't be time to make up excuses. It'll be time to definitively stand for or against God. I believe the Lord is going to work in a way similar to if not greater then He did at Pentecost, just before He returns, but on a massively global scale.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

With all sincerity I don't think so because you've been exposed to our teachings regarding this matter already and you haven't accepted it.

It is very true that I have been exposed to the arguments of men. What has been lacking is the teaching of Scripture indicating that the sabbath is the seal of God and that Sunday worship, when it will be enforced by law, will be the mark of the beast. I respect that this is your conclusion, but I truly could not articulate a Biblical basis for it. Until I can, I can't adopt it.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Good way to attack the strawman.

Thanks.

It might be helpful to go one step further and mention that, when President Obama was elected, he did not establish an entirely new covenant with America that was based on a different government (such as a monarchy or a communist regime). Rather, he is just another president in a line of presidents operating under the same government and relying on the legislature to set each year the tax expectations.

It's apples and oranges.

BFA

 

[OntheDL]

Good point. I'm happy to hear God came into your life. Still seems really far fetched to me, though. All humanity opposed to the special people in the SDA church?

I guess the scenario of Jesus coming in glory to the earth would seem really impossble to an unbeleiver, too. We all have the right to our beliefs. I'm not sure the Sunday law thing is directly Biblical, however. If God intended to use the Sabbath as the dividing line between saved and unsaved people, He could at least have mentioned something, anything, about the Sabbath to the Gentile churches.

It's not the SDA church. It's all who receive and practice the three angels message. In fact we know the vast majority of SDAs won't even make it.