Does a single vocation exist?

[Orthodoxia]

"If one is single at an older age, rejoice!" --Rising_Suns


This depends on why one is single at an older age. See MD: "It is why some who delay marriage past a certain age do end up being single for life, it happens! ... even if that is not what they had intended. At times I think it is either some sort of fear of making a mistake or just so particular in what they are looking for they price themselves out of the market."

I know several people who fall into this category. They spend so much time trying to discern their vocation because they want to do what is right that they never choose one and they fall into a drifting state that is very difficult to leave. Then they get to be 40 and regret their life decision not to make a decision, but it is too late because they are very set in their ways and find it very difficult to change (though nothing is definitely too late, there is always the mercy of God and miracles too).

This is why one should, when looking at two good paths, choose one to follow at some point and see where it takes one. If it is right for one, one will find the way straight and peaceful. If it is not, one will know because one will not be at peace, and then one can turn back and take the other path.

"Why worry about where/when/if you will find "the One", when, in reality, He is right before you, and is already yours to have!"--Rising_Suns

True. Pray, hope and don't worry.

 

[Orthodoxia]

Quoting Rising_Suns again:

"We really need a paradym shift here. Remember, even Paul tells us *not* to seek marriage."

True. You should only seek the will of God.

"Our society has it in reverse. We think of marriage as the natural next step, but the truth is, it is marriage that must be discerned, not vs."

I disagree. Marriage is the natural next step. The religious life is the supernatural next step. The religious foregoes the natural step of marriage and enters immediately into the Heavenly Kingdom as the Bride of Christ. They are living their death on Earth, something the rest only get to experience in the afterlife.

"So, it is best to forget about marriage altogether and keep your focus on our Lord. If He brings someone into your life, then embrace it. If not, then embrace that too."

Very good advice.

 

[Rising_Suns]

I agree that people rush into things too fast as far as marriage is concerned, but it has nothing to do with age. Chronological age means absolutely nothing. Look at Blessed Imelda or St. Therese or St. Dominic Savio. Do you think they were too young to know what they were doing?

What really means something is maturity level (emotionally and spiritually). I know several people in their 30s and 40s who act like 8-year-olds and several 8-year-olds who act like they are in their 30s and 40s.

We therefore cannot make a blanket statement saying that anyone is too young to do anything, let alone get married. Each individual couple must be evaluated on its own.

Yes, obviously maturity is the greater factor to that of age, but it is also the more subjective one, and much more difficult to pin down (especially with us humans who will find any excuse to follow our emotions. Remember, we have 13-year-olds reading these threads too ). As I said previsouly, there are some exceptions, as you noted. But as a general rule of thumb, age and maturity tend to be directly related, at least on an individual basis.

Blessings,

-Davide

 

[Rising_Suns]

I disagree. Marriage is the natural next step. The religious life is the supernatural next step. The religious foregoes the natural step of marriage and enters immediately into the Heavenly Kingdom as the Bride of Christ. They are living their death on Earth, something the rest only get to experience in the afterlife.

I agree with your train of thought, but try not to get caught up on my use of the word "natural". Marriage may be the next step for most people, but it is often without giving any recognition to the other vocation. St. Bernard estimated that 1 out of every 3 Catholics are called to the religious life (and in the ancient Hewbrew tradition, the first born was consecrated to the Lord). Yet, as it stands now, we have only 1/2% of today's Catholics who are religious.

Again, we must always keep in mind the relevent issues in today's society. The Council of Trent stated that the consecrated life is the preferred way of life to that of marriage. Paul advices us to remain celibate if we can. Pope John Paul II stated that the religious life is the objective higher calling.

So, clearly we are councelled to lean towards this vocation, unless otheriwse discerned.

Blessings,

-Davide

 

[colleen]

I would agree that our focus needs to be on the Lord. I sometimes get caught up in the fact that I'm single, but I am trying my best to believe in God's timing. I know at least for me when I become focused on 'finding the one' I lose track of Jesus who is the One!

So have we decided that the single state is not a vocation.
Colleen

 

[Rising_Suns]

I would agree that our focus needs to be on the Lord. I sometimes get caught up in the fact that I'm single, but I am trying my best to believe in God's timing. I know at least for me when I become focused on 'finding the one' I lose track of Jesus who is the One!

So have we decided that the single state is not a vocation.
Colleen

If it means anything Colleen, from what I have seen I think you are doing well. I know very few people who actually practice ways to submit in their everyday lives in order to prepare themselves for their future husband, which to me shows great humility (how rare it is, especially in the face of feminism as it is today).

Blessings,

-Davide

 

[marciadietrich]

Davide and Colleen,

I think you both have good points.

I would say that it appears after you are sure you don't have a vocation to the religious life that you are free to actively seek out a suitable mate. I don't think there is any requirement to just wait for someone to fall into your life (we don't just pray for the poor, we help the poor - we don't just pray for healing, we also seek out medical help), as long as you are sure marriage is your vocation you can be both prayful and seek out someone who is suitable. I think a big factor is to not let infatuation rule you on one hand and to not let fear rule you on the flipside.

God bless you both.

Marcia

 

[marciadietrich]

Oh, and hi to Orthodoxia as well ... you'd think I would notice the difference between people's names and characters.

 

[anawim]

I forget the exact reference, but there's a verse in Tobit that says the one that God has chosen for us, was planned in advance. No matter what, God's Will, will be done.

 

[Raphael777]

Some people, I suspect, are certainly called to live a single 'virginal' life, but may not necessarily feel called to embrace a priestly or religious life. This state is truly honourable: ' ... and there are eunuchs who have made themselves so for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.' (Matthew 19:12) Jesus, here, is making no explicit reference to a celibate priestly state, but is asking anyone - any Christian - who can accept this, to do so, yet in no way does he diminish the dignity of the married state. Such people, will 'follow the Lamb wherever he goes...' (Revelation 14:4). However, there are some people, through no fault of their own, (like someone who experiences same sex attractions) who ought to embrace a single life.

This notion seems odd to the secular world - but a 'single life' should not equal 'loneliness' or 'lacking in love'. Rather, it further imitates the life of Christ, and fosters an appreciation and love of the intrinsic dignity of every human - a dignity that surpasses all comprehensibility and stems from the mystery of being made 'in the image of God' (Genesis 1:27). It develops and strengthens friendships, not only between one another but also with God, and in this way no one is truly alone: no one is isolated or distant or lonely (cf. Genesis 2:18). Let anyone accept this who can!

 

[colleen]

David, thank you. I know what you mean about feminism.

I've always considered myself a feminist, but I don't agree with what is going on in the movement today. My mother who is also a feminist has spent most of her life defending the fact that she is a stay at home mom to those women. My feminity is a gift, but like every gift from God is must be charished and protected.

As far as looking for a mate, for me it depends on what you mean by looking. I really believe one should only begin dating someone after prayfully considering the man (who in my opinion should be doing the approaching) who has asked you to go out with him. I also believe these relationships need to be from the start about discerning a marriage with that person. If one or other isn't interested in the possiblity of marriage down the road then the relationship will most likely turn into the taking advantage of each other for his/her own pleasure both physically and emotionally. Of course I'm much more traditional than most when it comes to dating so I'm sure not everyone agrees with me.

Poor Victoria she's probably wondering what happened to her thread. I've really been trying to figure out whether or not there is just a single state or if their can be a vocation to singlehood. I keep wanting to say no (with the possible exception of consecrated celibacy outside of a religious group). But, I do think that what we have been discussing, which is essentially what is appropriate to do while in the single state, is important as well.

 

[Orthodoxia]

Hi there Colleen and all! Pax! There are actually several "waves" of feminism. I am not sure if I have them right, but I think the first "wave" consisted of the suffragettes who wanted the same rights as men. The second "wave" were those who were reacting against the suffragettes who wanted to restore the proper female roles (i.e. mother and wife, cooking/cleaning, etc.) to women. The third "wave" were those who rejected these womenly roles and wanted to surpass men. And the fourth "wave" doesn't even believe in gender.

If I were a feminist, I'd probably be second wave, and it sounds as if you and your mother are this. But I consider myself to be a pro-woman, anti-feminist. I am all about preserving the feminine, not the feminist.

Poor Victoria she's probably wondering what happened to her thread. .

Haha. I have been enjoying the discussion even though it has gone on some major tangents : )

 

[Orthodoxia]

I agree with your train of thought, but try not to get caught up on my use of the word "natural". Marriage may be the next step for most people, but it is often without giving any recognition to the other vocation. St. Bernard estimated that 1 out of every 3 Catholics are called to the religious life (and in the ancient Hewbrew tradition, the first born was consecrated to the Lord). Yet, as it stands now, we have only 1/2% of today's Catholics who are religious.

Again, we must always keep in mind the relevent issues in today's society. The Council of Trent stated that the consecrated life is the preferred way of life to that of marriage. Paul advices us to remain celibate if we can. Pope John Paul II stated that the religious life is the objective higher calling.

So, clearly we are councelled to lean towards this vocation, unless otheriwse discerned.

Blessings,

-Davide

If only 1/3 of the population is called to the consecrated life (which St. John Bosco and St. Alphonsus Ligouri said--I don't know if St. Bernard said it), then the consecrated life is obviously the higher, supernatural calling. But how do you get from this that people should discern marriage rather than a vocation if there are fewer people called to a vocation than there are to the religious life?

Also, just because it is a higher calling, does not mean that all are called to it, so I think the counsels are such that we are counselled to lean towards the vocation to the religious life if we are given the supernatural grace to have such a vocation. But most people are not given this supernatural grace, so they should marry, rather then burn, as Paul says.

Marriage is a natural good, and 2/3 of the population are inclined towards this. It is the remaining 1/3 that need to discern their vocation to the supernatural good of the religious life.

 

[Rising_Suns]

But how do you get from this that people should discern marriage rather than a vocation if there are fewer people called to a vocation than there are to the religious life?

Becaue we should strive first for the heavenly before the earthly forshadow.

If we aim high for the consecrated calling but end up in marriage, it is better than not ever aiming high to begin with, which is what happens in most cases today.

(which St. John Bosco and St. Alphonsus Ligouri said--I don't know if St. Bernard said it

Yes, I'm sorry. I think it was St. John Bosco who I am thinking of, and not St. Bernard.

Blessings,

-Davide

 

[Orthodoxia]

Becaue we should strive first for the heavenly before the earthly forshadow.

If we aim high for the consecrated calling but end up in marriage, it is better than not ever aiming high to begin with, which is what happens in most cases today.

One should first and foremost strive for heaven and God. But this is not the same as striving for the consecrated life. Is not earthly marriage a way to unify with God and to enter the kingdom of heaven? It may be the lesser of the two vocations, but it is equally as God-centred as the other. Thus, I think your priorities are slightly out of order... I think one should aim high to do the will of God and to find Him and to know Him and to love Him. Once this happens (or at least begins to happen) then the discernment occurs--whether one should is called to the consecrated life or the religious life. To do it the other way is to put our own will before God's, I think, which is not desirable.

 

[bostonlass]

I forget the exact reference, but there's a verse in Tobit that says the one that God has chosen for us, was planned in advance.

If that's true then I got a lemon!!!!! Is there a lemon law up in heaven????

 

[colleen]

I think the important point being made is that your vocation needs to be discerned. You shouldn't just assume you are called to the married life, nor should you assume you are called to the religious life. I think many people jump into married life without giving a call to the religious life a chance. We have to do our best to discern God's call and follow His will. Then once you have discerned that call one should discern what partner/order God is calling you to.

I do believe that God is preparing a husband for me and I pray for him daily. I believe this because God does not give a vocation that cannot be fulfilled. In the same way I try to submit to His will in my own life so that I may become the best wife or mother possible. I have found that my own study of the saints, Eucharistic adoration, prayer (specifically the rosary), wearing a veil to mass and adoration, and service have helped me more in developing into what it is to be female than I ever learned from popular culture about how to "get a man". We are called to be saints, and God has given us the vocation that will help us the most in achieving that goal and lead us to helping others live a life in Christ.

Colleen

 

[Rising_Suns]

One should first and foremost strive for heaven and God. But this is not the same as striving for the consecrated life.

Of course. I did not suggest otherwise. In the subjective sense, the higher calling is whatever God is calling one to. But my point is that since the consecrated life more closely emulates heaven (where earthly marriage does not exist) and is recommended to us by Paul and by the Church, we should thus first opt for this unless otherwise discerned.

As you know Paul said that he would like us to remain as he is, and that it is better to marry than burn with lust. Paul's words in 1st Corinthians imply that we should lean toward celibacy, and that marriage should be discerned. This is fairly clear, I think.

Thus, I think your priorities are slightly out of order... I think one should aim high to do the will of God and to find Him and to know Him and to love Him. Once this happens (or at least begins to happen) then the discernment occurs--whether one should is called to the consecrated life or the religious life. To do it the other way is to put our own will before God's, I think, which is not desirable.

Yes, one should aim high to do the will of God. That goes without saying. But again, this is a very subjective thing, where as Paul gave us very tangible and practical advice. A person can rationalize anything as the will of God and convince himself they are following God, if they really wanted to. We see much evidence of this in the many thousands of Protestant denominations, all of whom thought they were following the will of God by dividing from the Church.

On a topic such as this, I think we need to keep a balance between the mystical and the practical.

Blessings,

-Davide

 

[Orthodoxia]

As you know Paul said that he would like us to remain as he is, and that it is better to marry than burn with lust. Paul's words in 1st Corinthians imply that we should lean toward celibacy, and that marriage should be discerned. This is fairly clear, I think.

I'm sorry to keep discussing this point and drawing it out, and I shall try very hard to make this my last post about it, but I am just trying to figure things out, as we all are, and I want to understand, if I can.

I just do not see the obvious clarity of the conclusion that Davide has reached from the Pauline quote. The way I interpret this quote leads me to the opposite conclusion. I interpret it as saying that marriage is the natural thing, so most of us need to marry so that we might not burn. Paul says, of course that celibacy is preferred. But because marriage is the state that most people are naturally inclined to, is it not celibacy that needs to be discerned?

My interpretation is, of course, in no way infallible. Does anyone know of any interpretation that the Church has given of this quote that might agree with either Davide or I? Or give some other explanation entirely that we haven't yet thought of?

 

[colleen]

I have to agree with Davide. I have always been taught that this quote put the celibate vocation first, but Paul realized that everyone could not and was not supposed to live that way and thus we should marry as not to burn with lust. I don't think David is trying to say that it is unnatural to marry, but rather that most people don't take the time to discern a possible vocation to the religious life and that things might be different if people started out think about going into religious life and then in discerning that vocation saw that they are actually called to the married life.