Is that with the help of the supernatural or without, e.g., acting entirely within the laws of nature?
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not a billion thats for sure.
not a million thats for sure.
I don't know if I accept the 4004BC as the exact creation, in september I believe Ussher states. I simply don't know if that exact measurement is possible. It may in fact be. (according to Bible chronology)
but I would say it's safe to bet on less than 10K years for sure.
but I would say it's safe to bet on less than 10K years for sure.
It is of interest to note that evaporites deposited within the Green River Formation in the deeper parts of severalbasins in Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming also exhibit rhythmic sedimentation suggestive of yearly events.(ibid)
The Green River Formation laminae are considered varves, although not formed under glacial conditions. Theylaminations seems secure. Thus, they are annual varves.
consist of a thin, dark winter layer and a thicker lighter summer layer. These formed by seasonal events -
increased spring and summer productivity of algae, and accumulation of finer material in the winter. Some
geologists have had a few other ideas about the Green River Fm, but the seasonal changes accounting for the
Of course. (You do realize that pole was a practical joke?)
Then you might wish to explain (using your "single catastrophic event" model) this:
It is a classic photo of the Green River Formation, a set of varves. The little dots in the foreground are cows for scale.
Now there are millions of varves in this deposit.
But you would probably like some peer reviewed work on the Green River rhythmites.
How about this one:
Fischer, A.G., and Roberts, L.T., 1991, Cyclicity in the Green River Formation lacustrine (Eocene) ofWyoming: Jour. Sedimentary Petrology, v. 61, p. 1146-1154. (HERE)
So let's take some look at the details.
This article discusses not only the petrology of the varve couplets but also references studies on the mechanism for formation.
IF this were a single catastrophic event I'm curious why it would show repeated (repeated, repeated, repeated, repeated) couplets of increased organic content, lower organic content, over and over and over again.
There is a "lesson" from the University of Indiana website that discusses the "annual" nature of these varves (HERE)
Interestingly they note this:
Now I really like that one because I'm assuming you know how evaporites form. They require that the concentration of the salts be high enough to overcome the solubility of that salt in the water body. So we have not only a case where the water was starting to evaporate (long enough time sitting around) but it also has "cycles" in it! Then up above we have all these zillions of annual layers.
But again, the nature of these varves was described as long as about 1930 by Bradley:
Bradley, W.H., 1930,The varves and climate of the Green River Epoch: U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 158, p. 87-110.
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not a billion thats for sure.
not a million thats for sure.
I don't know if I accept the 4004BC as the exact creation, in september I believe Ussher states. I simply don't know if that exact measurement is possible. It may in fact be. (according to Bible chronology)
but I would say it's safe to bet on less than 10K years for sure.
where does it mention peer review in this paper on varves?
secondly, it's sort of old, but thats fine.....I will be nice.
If can provide references for it being a peer review and that being from a PHD in geology, then we may actually have some facts finally.
it is on subject, which is good.
I am fairly sure most of the peer reviews in your last post were off topic. (even a little is too much).
I mean I could provide dozens of peer reviews on the creation of the earth regarding physics, genetics, biology etc.
but this is no help to our discussion.
as far as the picture goes, all we know is that varves form. WE don't know if they are annual.
The only way to know is if you provide sources for your info.
Textbooks are outdated to easily and are to simplistic.
I could quote textbooks as well,
but all you would do is make fun of the fact that the author doesn't use His real name.
regarding your post about a book I posted about dating methods.
(woodmorappe)
so let me know when you find some facts.
Thanks for the pictures!
They are wonderful.
I am fairly sure most of the peer reviews in your last post were off topic. (even a little is too much).
it is on subject, which is good.
I mean I could provide dozens of peer reviews on the creation of the earth regarding physics, genetics, biology etc.
as far as the picture goes, all we know is that varves form. WE don't know if they are annual.
The only way to know is if you provide sources for your info.
Textbooks are outdated to easily and are to simplistic.
I could quote textbooks as well,
but all you would do is make fun of the fact that the author doesn't use His real name.
so let me know when you find some facts.
Thanks for the pictures!
They are wonderful.
not a billion thats for sure.
not a million thats for sure.
I don't know if I accept the 4004BC as the exact creation, in september I believe Ussher states. I simply don't know if that exact measurement is possible. It may in fact be. (according to Bible chronology)
but I would say it's safe to bet on less than 10K years for sure.
as far as the picture goes, all we know is that varves form. WE don't know if they are annual.
so let me know when you find some facts.
Does ice float in your world? It does in mine.
Then you might wish to explain (using your "single catastrophic event" model) this:
It actually looks like a flood event to me (not the formation of sediments but the fact that they have been washed away so dramatically). Even the river that was formed still remains. The vertical cliffs and flat riverbed are characteristic of powerful flooding.
Are you as good as your word? Are you really interested in peer reviewed articles? How about this one:
Fischer, A.G., Roberts, L.T., 1991, Cyclicity in the Green River Formation (lacustrine Eocene) of Wyoming, Journal of Sedimentary Petrology 61 (7) , pp. 1146-1154
Abstract
The lacustrine mode (Tipton and Laney members) accumulated mainly varved oil shale. Here annual cycles are recorded as varves. Variations in varve thickness demonstrate El Nino (ENSO)-type and sunspot cycles. Milankovitch-scale cycles are not obvious in lithic variations, but gamma ray logs record 1) precessional variations with a mean period (varve-timed) of 19.5ka, and 2) a bundling of these in the ca. 100ka eccentricity cycle. In the playa mode (Wilkins Peak Member), the lithic succession oil shale-trona-dolomitic marlstone records the precessional drying up of a lake and is again bundled in sets of five, by the 100 ka eccentricity rhythm.
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or this one?
Tylmann, W., Szpakowska, K., Ohlendorf, C., Woszczyk, M., Zolitschka, B., 2012, Conditions for deposition of annually laminated sediments in small meromictic lakes: A case study of Lake Suminko (Northern Poland), Journal of Paleolimnology 47 (1) , pp. 55-70
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Or how about the "annual chronometer" in the laminations in this one?
Shanahan, T.M., Overpeck, J.T., Beck, J.W., Wheeler, C.W., Peck, J.A., King, J.W., Scholz, C.A., 2008, The formation of biogeochemical laminations in Lake Bosumtwi, Ghana, and their usefulness as indicators of past environmental changes, Journal of Paleolimnology 40 (1) , pp. 339-355
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Perhaps you would like the sub-annual structures in the varves studied in this study?
Chutko, K.J., Lamoureux, S.F.,2008, Identification of coherent links between interannual sedimentary structures and daily meteorological observations in Arctic proglacial lacustrine varves: Potentials and limitations, Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences 45 (1) , pp. 1-13
-----------------------------------
OOoh! Here's one with both varve counting and radiometric dating!
Migowski, C., Agnon, A., Bookman, R., Negendank, J.F.W., Stein, M., 2004, Recurrence pattern of Holocene earthquakes along the Dead Sea transform revealed by varve-counting and radiocarbon dating of lacustrine sediments, Earth and Planetary Science Letters 222 (1) , pp. 301-314
of particular note is this bit from the abstract:
"...Radiocarbon dating and annual laminae counting yield excellent agreement between disturbed sedimentary structures (identified as seismites) and the historical earthquake record..."
-------------------------------
Let us all know when you are willing to talk about some science.
It actually looks like a flood event to me (not the formation of sediments but the fact that they have been washed away so dramatically). Even the river that was formed still remains. The vertical cliffs and flat riverbed are characteristic of powerful flooding.
No, it was not a practical joke. It was from a very catastropic event that killed people. Those polystrate telephone poles were created by a volcanic eruption at Mt. Pinatubo that produced devastating lahars.
Lahars of Mount Pinatubo, Philippines, Fact Sheet 114-97
Then you might wish to explain (using your "single catastrophic event" model) this:
It actually looks like a flood event to me (not the formation of sediments but the fact that they have been washed away so dramatically). Even the river that was formed still remains. The vertical cliffs and flat riverbed are characteristic of powerful flooding.
Its funny to me how everything looks like "the result of a flood event" to you guys. Doesn't matter how angular the formation, or serpentine, or the type of rocks, its all "flood" to you guys.
Then how do you explain the "couplets"? This "powerful flood" must have been pretty quiet and for whatever reason it showed cycles of higher and lower organic productivity resulting in light and dark bands in repeating cycles.
Here's what some Green River Fm varves look like up close:
The darker band is more rich in organics (such as one would find during the summer or times of higher biological productivity) whereas the lighter ones are less organic rich.
Interestingly enough, within these layers are "ashfalls" from nearby volcanoes in what is now Yellowstone. These can be radiometrically dated. They have been dated to about 50 million years ago and span a time of a few million years. (HERE).
You can read more about the age of parts of the Green River Fm here:
Smith, M.E., Singer, B., Carroll, A., 2003, 40Ar/39Ar geochronology of the Eocene Green River Formation, Wyoming, Bulletin of the Geological Society of America 115 (5) , pp. 549-565
If they were buried by a single event they wouldn't be imbedded in a 'polystrate' formation, unless lahars do accomplish depositional 'sorting' thus forming distinctive layers.
Its funny to me how everything looks like "the result of a flood event" to you guys. Doesn't matter how angular the formation, or serpentine, or the type of rocks, its all "flood" to you guys.
Flooding is a fact of geology.
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