Documented Creative Miracle

[speakout]

I we can see creative miracles, does that prove that there is a creator?

click below
http://dawkinswatch.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/miracle-centre-in-bethel-california/

 

[rjw]

I we can see creative miracles, does that prove that there is a creator?

click below
http://dawkinswatch.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/miracle-centre-in-bethel-california/

Gidday speakout,

You won't forget to deal with dating techniques and why they are "unreasonable" over at your blog, will you.

Over there, I have also suggested that you deal with those three examples (re dating) from Hovind, that I showed you, because by any measure, they are unreasonable.




Regards, Roland

 

[flatworm]

I we can see creative miracles, does that prove that there is a creator?

click below
http://dawkinswatch.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/miracle-centre-in-bethel-california/

If you actually look at the documents shown in the video, what speakout calls a "heart cavity" is referred to as "bidirectional PDA".

What is PDA?

In PDA, there is an abnormal circulation of blood between two of the major arteries near the heart. Before birth, the two major arteries—the aorta and the pulmonary artery—are normally connected by a blood vessel called the ductus arteriosus, which is an essential part of the fetal circulation. After birth, the vessel is supposed to close within a few days as part of the normal changes occurring in the baby's circulation. In some babies, however, the ductus arteriosus remains open (patent).

Source

So, what speakout would like to claim is a case of a hole in an infant's heart healing spontaneously is actually a case of a normally existing blood vessel (which is supposed to close spontaneously) closing spontaneously.

I should also point out:

Small PDAs often close without treatment.

Source

 

[Paulos23]

Nice. Someone rep flatworm please.

 

[sfs]

Nice. Someone rep flatworm please.

Okay.

 

[Logic_Fault]

Nice. Someone rep flatworm please.

Done.

 

[Nitron]

Please reply to my PM.

Coward.

 

[atomweaver]

christianforums.com Message

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to flatworm again.
​

I tried...

 

[speakout]

I know people with holes in their heart who never get healed.

 

[madarab]

I know people with holes in their heart who never get healed.

I know people who catch the flu who die from it. Your point?

 

[speakout]

Look at the number of cancer cases which the church healed.

 

[Nitron]

Look at the number of cancer cases which the church healed.

Look at the PM you haven't replied to. Coward.

 

[astroweezer]

Look at the number of cancer cases which the church healed.

I don't know, but how does that compare to the number of cancer cases that the church and/or praying failed to heal?

 

[Herman Hedning]

Look at the number of cancer cases which the church healed.

Okay ... The number is zero, right?

 

[MoonLancer]

I know people with holes in their heart who never get healed.

so why didn't god heal them huh? Is he still playing favorites?

Why is it that all healing like in the video you presented internal? 1 that makes it much harder to verify. 2 non of theses cases have a single example of someone healing that is impossible to heal otherwise. People get healed from cancer without prayer without treatment on rare occasions. Why is that?

Please show me a case of healing prayer that has worked and healed were the human body has never healed on its own in similar cases.

Amputees would be a good place to start.

If you can show me someone regenerating a limb, I will become a creationist. If you cant, then you must ask yourself, why does god hate amputees?

oh and Pat Robinson? BWAHAHAHA

 

[Morcova]

Look at the number of cancer cases which the church healed.

What... this number?

0
Is that the number you were looking for?

 

[TheOutsider]

What does any of this have to do with Crevo?

 

[flatworm]

Look at the number of cancer cases which the church healed.

Unbelievable. You have your Great Big Miracle Claim shot down as a fraud, and you just segway into a new claim without a hint of doubt towards the source?

 

[Vance]

Speaking as one who is perfectly open to the idea of God performing a miracle, I get SO tired people trotting out every "against the odds" recovery as an example of such a miracle. For it to be a documented miracle (which I don't believe there has ever been), it would require actual observation and indisputable verification of an event that was more than just "dramatically against the odds", but something that actually is impossible in the natural.

Yes, I think that such events have happened, but I don't think there has ever been a case where such an event has resulted in the type of verification which would withstand scientific scrutiny. In fact, I know there hasn't or we would have an awful lot of atheists becoming theists right quick.

 

[Paulos23]

Okay.

Done.

Thanks guys.