Doctrine of Hell

[agenes]

Agenes: One question for you.....
What are the qualifications for aionial punishment and aionial life?

What are the qualifications for eternal/(everlasting) punishment and eternal/ (everlasting) life?

The Lord Jesus Christ has answered this:

Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?" Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can these things be?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (John 3:3-21)

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

And also the Apostle Paul:

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:23-26)

But, concerning the wicked, he says:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness

And Peter:

For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?
(1 Peter 4:17-18)

We are dead in sin. Unless God, by His mercy and grace draws us, we are not able to come to Him in faith.

Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?" And looking at them Jesus said to them, With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. (Matthew 19:24-26; Mark 10:26;Luke 18:26)

And He was passing through from one city and village to another, teaching, and proceeding on His way to Jerusalem. And someone said to Him, "Lord, are there just a few who are being saved?" And He said to them, "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.' "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets'; and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.' "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out. "And they will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God. (Luke 13:22-29)

And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."
(John 6:65)

 

[FineLinen]

Hi there Agenes....My friend the passage under consideration is St. Matthew chapter 25; where within the context of the only passage regarding "everlasting punishment", the Lord Lesous tells us the foundation for aionial punishment and aionial zoe. What are the qualifications?

The Lord Lesous Christos, the salvation of Jehovah, has declared that there is everlasting punishment for those on the left, and everlasting zoe for those on the right.

What are the qualifications for aionial zoe, and aionial kolasis, according to the Saviour of the holos kosmos?

What are the qualifications for aionial kolasis? Is it failure to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour? Is it failure to believe into Him? Is it sin, or darkness, or iniquity, or unbelief?

The qualifications for aionial kolasis are?


1. _______________________________________________?


2.________________________________________________?


3.________________________________________________?


4_________________________________________________?


5._________________________________________________?


The qualifications for aionial zoe are?


1. _______________________________________________?


2.________________________________________________?


3.________________________________________________?


4_________________________________________________?


5._________________________________________________?


6._________________________________________________?

 

[FineLinen]

Could you explain in English the difference as you see it?

"It's all greek to me"

Hi there Paul....An understanding of the noun aion, and the adjective aionios is absolutely necessary to the understanding of our Father's purpose in the Son of His love. Have you read Dr. John W. Hanson? This comprehensive article is over 50 pages, but will be of assistance to you in your search?

http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/hanson/Aion-Aionios.htm

You should also find the following links of some help.

Definitions of Aion, Aionios

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw1.htm

Usage of Aion

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw2.htm

The Scholars Speak on Aion

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw3.htm

Apparent Bible Contradictions

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw4.htm

"Forever and Ever" - A Poor Translation

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw5.htm

What Saith The Translations?

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw6.htm

Eonian Means What? - A Search For Truth

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw7.htm

Greek Tools

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw8.htm

Aion in Greek Literature

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw9.htm

Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw10.htm

Verses "Proving" Punishment Will be Everlasting

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw11.htm

Scholars Acknowledge Restitution of All

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw12.htm

Punishment? Yes -- Everlasting? No

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw13.htm

A Long, But Not Eternal Visit To "Hell"

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw14.htm

The "Chosen," Not "I have Chosen"

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw15.htm

Clearing Things Up

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw16.htm

The Complete Revelation

http://hellbusters.8m.com/asw17.htm

Appendix 1 - Commentary of Previous Presentation

http://hellbusters.8m.com/aswapp1.htm

Appendix 2 - Do You Believe ALL in the Bible?

http://hellbusters.8m.com/aswapp2.htm

Appendix 3 - Reconciliation Scriptures

http://hellbusters.8m.com/aswapp3.htm

Appendix 4 - What Pleases the Father?

http://hellbusters.8m.com/aswapp4.htm

Appendix 5 - What if we are Wrong?

http://hellbusters.8m.com/aswapp5.htm

Epilogue

http://hellbusters.8m.com/aswepi.htm

I have thus noticed what Reason is supposed to say against the doctrine of final restitution. But to me this is a question only to be settled by the Word of God; for with our knowledge or lack of knowledge of all the mystery of our being, we are not in a position to argue this point, or to say exactly what is, or what is not, reasonable. What saith the Scripture ? This is the question, and the only question I care to ask here on this subject. At the same time I confess that the restitution of all things, so far from appearing to me unlikely or unreasonable, seems, spite of the mystery of the origin and existence of evil, more consistent with what we know of God than the doctrine of never-ending punishment. To say that sin, assuming it to be opposed to God has the power of creating a world antagonistic to God as everlasting as He is, attributes to it a power equal at least to His; since, according to this view, souls whom God willed to be saved, and for whom Christ died, are held in bondage under the power of sin for ever; and all this in opposition to the Word of God, which says that God's Son "was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil," (1 John 3:eight) who if the so called orthodox view be right, will succeed in destroying some of the works of the Son of God for ever.

-Andrew Jukes-

http://newhopemusic.com/thine.htm

When I think too of God's justice, which it is said inflicts, not only millions of years of pain for each thought or word or act of sin during this short life of seventy years,--not even millions of ages only for every such act, but a punishment which when millions of ages of judgment have been inflicted for every moment man has lived on earth is no nearer its end than when it first commenced; and all this for twenty, forty, or seventy years of sin in a world which is itself a vale of sorrow;--when I think of this, and then of man, his nature, his weakness, all the circumstances of his brief sojourn and trial in this world; with temptations without, and a foolish heart within; with his judgment weak, his passions strong, his conscience judging, not helping him; with a tempter always near, with this world to hide a better;--when I remember that this creature, though fallen, was once God's child, and that God is not just only, but loving and long-suffering;--I cannot say my reason would conclude, that this creature, failing to avail itself of the mercy here offered by a Saviour, shall therefore find no mercy any more, but be for ever punished with never-ending torments.

Natural conscience, which with all its failings is a witness for God, protests against any such awful misrepresentation of Him. For even nature teaches that all increase of power lays its possessor under an obligation to act more generously. Shall not then the Judge of all the earth do right? (Gen. 28:25) Shall we say that sinful men are selfish and guilty, if with wealth and power they neglect the poor and miserable; and yet that God, who is eternal love, shall do what even sinful men abhor and reprobate ? For shall we, if one of our children fall and hurt itself, or be lost to us for years, bitterly reproach ourselves for want of care, and be tormented with the thought that with greater watchfulness we might have saved the child,--shall we if at last he is found, even among thieves, a sharer of their crimes, still love him as our own child, make every possible excuse for him, and do all we can to save him,--shall we, though he be condemned, plead for him to the end, urging the strength of those temptations with which he has been so long surrounded,--and shall not God have at least the like pity for His lost ones? Has He left any of His children in peril of being for ever stolen from Him? Can He, if through the seduction of a crafty tempter some wander for awhile, be content that they should remain miserable slaves for ever lost to Him ? He would not be a wise man who risked even an estate, nor a good man who obliged any one else to do so. Can God then ever have exposed His children to the risk of endless separation from Him? All the reason God has given me says, God could not act thus; and that if His children are for ever lost, He even more than they must be miserable. But, as I have said, we have, thank God, a better guide than our reason, even God's blessed Word, with its "more sure" promise; and because that Word declares man's final restitution, and that God will seek His lost ones "till He find them," (Luke 15:4 & eight) and that therefore a day shall come when "there shall be no more curse or death," I gladly accept God's testimony, and look for life and rest, spite of present death and judgment and destruction.

 

[Pilgrim Simon]

Pilgrim Simon....One simple question for you....

If the noun aion, from which the adjective aionios flows, is everlasting; what is pro aionios?
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Ah...now there you have me...it is all Greek to me too. Alas I am not a Greek scholar and had to make do with the works of others...a definite disadvantage I know...I made the best of what I knew.

 

[FineLinen]

Pilgrim Simon....One simple question for you....

If the noun aion, from which the adjective aionios flows, is everlasting; what is pro aionios?
---------------------------------------------
Ah...now there you have me...it is all Greek to me too. Alas I am not a Greek scholar and had to make do with the works of others...a definite disadvantage I know...I made the best of what I knew.

Hi there Pilgrim Simon. You posted a "Personal study extract" regarding Matt. 25 among other Scriptures on page 16 of this link. Our Lord speaks of the nations as being goats and sheep, and of everlasting punishment, and everlasting life for each of them accordingly. I will ask you in simple English..... What are the foundational qualifications of everlasting punishment, and everlasting life in Matt. 25?

The Lord Lesous Christos, the salvation of Jehovah, has declared that there is everlasting punishment for those on the left, and everlasting zoe for those on the right.

What are the qualifications for aionial zoe, and aionial kolasis, according to the Saviour of the holos kosmos?

What are the qualifications for aionial kolasis? Is it failure to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour? Is it failure to believe into Him? Is it sin, or darkness, or iniquity, or unbelief?

The qualifications for aionial kolasis are?


1. _______________________________________________?


2.________________________________________________?


3.________________________________________________?


4_________________________________________________?


5._________________________________________________?


The qualifications for aionial zoe are?


1. _______________________________________________?


2.________________________________________________?


3.________________________________________________?


4_________________________________________________?


5._________________________________________________?


6._________________________________________________?

Christ Triumphant by Rev. Thomas Allin

http://www.totlogcon.com/filealin.htm

 

[CrossMovement]

here is my view of hell ... please respect my opinion even if you don't agree with it . I have post this message many times , specially in the teens forums , but I want to repost it here.


The eternal fire will last forever but in it's consequences. (think about the word consequences ... very important to understand the whole post.)


Hell is simply the grave ... in the original language , the word means "in the tomb"

Also I don't believe in the "burn forever" thing (not in the literal one)

John 3:16 : For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

If we burn forever (truly burn for ever and ever) , we would have eternal life , some people might say that we would be separate from God so we would not technically have eternal life , but it is God who has the key of Hell , not Satan.

The punishment for sin is not everlasting life in hellfire, but the exact opposite ... death. We all die the first death (Hebrews 9:27), but the Bible says that the death the wicked will die in hell is the second death (Revelation 21:8). From the first death, all are raised for punishment or reward; but there is no resurrection from the second death. It is final. In addition, if the punishment for sin is everlasting torment in hellfire, then Jesus did not pay the penalty.


My point is that we will burn forever , but in it's consequences
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Are both soul and body destroyed in hell?

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Many believe that the soul never dies, but twice God says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4, 20. So according to Scripture, the wicked will be destroyed in hellfire ... both soul and body.

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Doesn't the Bible phrase "unquenchable fire" indicate that the fire never goes out ?


Matthew 3:12 : Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire

No. Unquenchable fire cannot be put out. However, when it has burned everything up, it goes out. For example, Jeremiah 17:27 warns that if God's people were not faithful, He would kindle a fire in Jerusalem that "shall not be quenched." And the Scriptures declare that this prophecy has already been fulfilled. "They burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire. ... To fulfil the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah." 2 Chronicles 36:19, 21. That fire could not be put out until it had consumed everything; then it went out. It is not burning today, even though the Bible calls it "unquenchable."

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Doesn't the phrase "everlasting fire" mean "unending" ?.

Jude 7 : Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

We can see in this verse that Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed with everlasting fire as an example of hell, but those cities are not still burning. They were turned into ashes (2 Peter 2:6), which is what eternal fire does. It is eternal in its consequences.


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*** When Revelation 20:10 states that the wicked will be tormented "for ever and ever," doesn't that indicate endless time? ***


Jonah 2:6 : I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever : yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

No. Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17), yet he said "for ever." I'm sure that it felt like forever! The Greek word translated "for ever" in Revelation 20:10 is "aion," from which we get our word "eon." It often represents an unspecified period of time, limited or unlimited. The words "for ever" are used 56 times in the Bible referring to something already ended. In one instance, "for ever" describes the life of a faithful slave (Exodus 21:6), and in another place "for ever" means 10 generations (Deuteronomy 23:3). With man, "for ever" often means "as long as he liveth" (1 Samuel 1:22, 28).

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Will the fires of hell ever go out?

Isaiah 47:14 : Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

After sin, sinners, and everything on earth is destroyed, the fire will go out. It will not burn throughout the ages. An eternal hell of torment would make it impossible to ever get rid of sin. God's plan is to isolate sin and destroy it, not perpetuate it. Revelation 21:5 says, "Behold, I make all things new ".


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(this next thing is a little bit off topic but that I wanted to include it )

The Rich Man and Lazarus

Many have used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to try to prove that people go right to heaven or to hell at death. This was never Jesus' intention in employing this story. The word Jesus used for "hell" was "Hades," a place of torment in Greek mythology. All of the Jews listening to this discourse would have understood that Jesus was using a well-known myth to illustrate a point. If we take a closer look at Luke 16:19-31, this parable is filled with symbols that Jesus never intended for us to take literally.

For example, do all the saved go to Abraham's bosom? No.
Would a drop of water cool the tongue of a person burning in hell? No.
Does Abraham decide who is saved and who is lost? No.

In the same way, this parable cannot be used to teach that people who die before the last judgment day at the end of the world will go right to heaven or to hell when they die. John 12:48 declares, "The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

So what does this parable mean? The rich man was a symbol of the Jewish nation, feasting on the Scriptures while the beggar at the gate--the Gentiles--were starving for the Word. Jesus concluded the parable with the observation that "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31. Indeed, Jesus did later raise a man named Lazarus from the dead, and most of the Jewish leaders still did not believe (John 12:9-11).

 

[Carl Carlson]

Dear Crossmovement:

If I were to say that there was no judgement day and no hell, I would have to say that the Bible was a big hoax and the authors in the Bible were false witnesses. I would have to slander the character of God and claim that He isn't a just and righteous Judge. It would mean that Jesus Christ was a liar and all the claims that he made about heaven and hell were therefor false. It would also mean that He suffered and died in vain, as did thousands of martyrs who had given their lives for the cause of Christ. It would also be to say that the Creator of all things was unjust, watching murderers, rapists, theives and the like get by without punishment, making Him worse than a corrupt human judge who refuses to bring criminals to justice.

Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Here's the good news for the person that doesn't believe in hell: You won't know a thing after you die. It would be the end. No heaven, no hell. Just nothing. You won't even know if it's good news. Here's the bad news if the Bible is right and there is eternal justice: You will find yourself standing before the judgement throne of a holy God, who has seen every sin you've ever commited. But because God is so just, His judgement extends to all sin. Along with murderers and rapists, liars, thieves, blasphemers, adulterers, etc. all go to hell if they are not saved by Chirst. This includes not only the physical, but also the thoughtlife, every secret sin will be exposed. Nothing will be hidden.

Psalm 90:8
You have set our iniquities before you, our secret sins in the light of your presence.

We may have forgotten many of our past sins, but God hasn't. We will have no one to blame but ourselves. This is the claim of the Bible, if you don't believe it, it is still true. It will still happen.

Psalm 7:8-13
8 let the LORD judge the peoples.
Judge me, O LORD , according to my righteousness, according to my integrity, O Most High.
9 O righteous God, who searches minds and hearts,
bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure.

10 My shield is God Most High, who saves the upright in heart.
11 God is a righteous judge, a God who expresses his wrath every day.
12 If he does not relent, he will sharpen his sword;
he will bend and string his bow.
13 He has prepared his deadly weapons; he makes ready his flaming arrows.

God is a righteous Judge. He will not stop simply with death.

Romans 2:5-9
5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;

Heaven can only get better, not worse. And hell cannot get better, only worse.

God "will give to each person according to what he has done."

If we have been saved and live by faith in Jesus Christ, the unrewarded blessings we have in store will come in heaven, the greater place to receive our treasure.

If we are an enemy of God...it only gets worse for us...

Eternal life is not for the damned. Eternal death and punishment is their justice. Many people go insane when merely isolated for a long period of time from other people. Imagine how terrible it would be if God simply withdrew all the good things we hold so dear: friendship, love, color, light, peace, joy, laughter, and security. Hell isn't just a place with the absence of God's blessings, it is punishment for sin. It is literal torment, forever. That's why the Bible warns that it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Isaiah 66:22-24
22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD , "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD . 24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Jesus spoke in parables, not Greek myths. He uses His teachings as a warning to us, not just a cute little story in a mythical wonderland. Hell is real. We should do everything that we can to avoid going there and to make sure none of our friends and family do either.

Mark 9:42-48
42"And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where " 'their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.'

Revelation 20:11-15
The Dead Are Judged

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Be careful of the doctrine that you are teaching...

 

[GenemZ]

John 3:16 : For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

If we burn forever , we would have eternal life , some people might say that we would be separate from God so we would not technically have eternal life , but it is God who has the key of Hell , not Satan.

You confuse the life of God (Eternal life) with simply having everlasting life. Eternal life has no beginning and no end. God has no beginning and no end. Everlasting life, in contrast, has a beginning and no end.

When we enter into Eternal life we will have full access to all there is...past, present, and future in God. Our life in God may appear to be a vast time machine. An Eternal education on all God knows, and is. It will never end, because God has no limit. God goes as far into the past as he does the future (in our way of thinking). Yet, everlasting existance (second death) is an unchanging world that takes on a beginning, but once it does, it never ends.

The punishment for sin is not everlasting life in hellfire, but the exact opposite ... death.

It does not say that the punishment for sin is death. Sin causes its own death. It cuts one off from fellowship with God (life). Sin entered the world through one man, Adam. It has been genetically (sin nature) passed down to all since. Sin entered the world to all of us through Adam's defect he picked up in the fall. Man is not born being punished, yet he is born a sinner. Certain sins deserve punishment in themselves, but we all sin, and not all are punished. Death is being cut off from God. The punishment of torments was originally designed for Satan and his angels. Those who follow the thinking of Satan towards God, enter into Satan's punishment by default.

We all die the first death (Hebrews 9:27), but the Bible says that the death the wicked will die in hell is the second death (Revelation 21:8). From the first death, all are raised for punishment or reward; but there is no resurrection from the second death. It is final. In addition, if the punishment for sin is everlasting torment in hellfire, then Jesus did not pay the penalty.

Sin will never be mentioned at the final judgement of believers. Like you said, Jesus paid for all our sins. Their deeds will be judged from the books.

"And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds." Revelation 20:12 nasb

They will be condemned by their works of human righteousness in attempt to receive the approval of God. Only one work God approves of. The Work of Christ on the Cross. If that is rejected, then all men's works are seen by God as filthy rags. Sin will not send men to the Lake of Fire. Their rejection of Jesus Christ, will. There are consequences for their rejection. Because of that, they join Satan at the sleep away camp for Lord rejectors. The Lake of Fire.

The first death is we are born sinners, not able to fellowship with God in our fallen state. God does a work to draw us to Himself. God is still active in the life of unbelievers to draw them to salvation.

The second death is a state where God ceases any drawing. There is no evidence of God being present in their lives. So many are oblivious to God in their lives now,,,,, but then, the absence will be apparent noticed. Like some do not hear the birds singing all day, but notice their absence when they are all finally gone. You do not know what you had until it is gone.

There will be no enthuisiasm in Hell. No hope. No ambition. It will be a complete surrender to the fate of torments, knowing full well, that if they were to do it all over again, that they would still want to make the same choices. That,will be the greatest torment of Hell. For the worm (conscious) never dies.

Grace and truth..... GeneZ

 

[Carl Carlson]

There are three words translated "hell" in Scripture:

Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22-23)

Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)

Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)

There are those who accept that hell is a place of punishement, but believe that the punishemnt is to be annihilated - to cease conscious existence. They can't conceive that the punishement of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who is responsible for the death of millions, is being "punished" merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn't even know that he is being punished.

However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19-31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn't asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." Jesus didn't make up a story for the Greek mythologists. He was giving a clear warning.

If hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go to death, Jesus' statements about hell make no sense. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to "go into hell, into fire that shall never be quenched: where the worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:43-48)

The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:

"Shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2)

"Everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:46)

"Weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 24:51)

"Fire unquenchable" (Luke 3:17)

"Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish" (Romans 2:8,9)

"Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord" (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

"Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness forever" (Jude 7,13)

Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night."

Thank God their is hope and salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord!

God bless.

 

[CrossMovement]

Dear Crossmovement:

If I were to say that there was no judgement day and no hell, I would have to say that the Bible was a big hoax and the authors in the Bible were false witnesses. I would have to slander the character of God and claim that He isn't a just and righteous Judge. It would mean that Jesus Christ was a liar and all the claims that he made about heaven and hell were therefor false. It would also mean that He suffered and died in vain, as did thousands of martyrs who had given their lives for the cause of Christ. It would also be to say that the Creator of all things was unjust, watching murderers, rapists, theives and the like get by without punishment, making Him worse than a corrupt human judge who refuses to bring criminals to justice.

you misunderstood my post.

The word Hell in the original language means " in the tomb" (which is what it really means in the original languages) , that's what I said , I never imply that there was no judgement day .. The dead will be judged and Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.

It's not because I said that the word means grave that it is finish and that there will be no judgement ... For sure I believe in the judgment day , but when we die , we all go to the grave and there will be a first ressurection (the just) and a second one for the wicked.

Maybe you misunderstood the point : Eternal in it's consequences. Maybe you thought that I meant that when we die we go to the grave and it's over (no judgement day) so it is eternal in it's consequences ... but it really wasn't the whole point of my post.

The eternal in it's consequences was for the fire ... Look at one of my point in my post ... We will burn eternally this is know , but I said to focus on the word "consequences" , to truly understand my point. I don't believe in the "burn forever" thing because I think it is in it's consequences , we will burn forever , but not in the way of the fire always burning , we will burn forever but in it's consequences (I should have made that part more clear) .. Read this part of my post.

Doesn't the phrase "everlasting fire" mean "unending" ?.

Jude 7 : Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

We can see in this verse that Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed with everlasting fire as an example of hell, but those cities are not still burning. They were turned into ashes (2 Peter 2:6), which is what eternal fire does. It is eternal in its consequences.

*** When Revelation 20:10 states that the wicked will be tormented "for ever and ever," doesn't that indicate endless time? ***


Jonah 2:6 : I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever : yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

No. Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights (Jonah 1:17), yet he said "for ever." I'm sure that it felt like forever! The Greek word translated "for ever" in Revelation 20:10 is "aion," from which we get our word "eon." It often represents an unspecified period of time, limited or unlimited. The words "for ever" are used 56 times in the Bible referring to something already ended. In one instance, "for ever" describes the life of a faithful slave (Exodus 21:6), and in another place "for ever" means 10 generations (Deuteronomy 23:3). With man, "for ever" often means "as long as he liveth" (1 Samuel 1:22, 28).


EDIT : OH , I see now my big mistake ... I stated my point with the word HELL (first sentenece) ... I never wanted to imply it like that (I can see now some of the confusion you had)... If you read the rest of my post , you will see that it wasn't my intention ... I'm sorry , I should have been more attentive to what I was writing ... sometime , even a single word mistake can change the whole point of the post ... You were right to think like that , and I apologize for my mistake since it could have confuse more people that would maybe not have writing a reply or understood the real point ... Thank you for the reply

, the writing mistake as now been changed.

 

[john14_20]

There are those who accept that hell is a place of punishement, but believe that the punishemnt is to be annihilated - to cease conscious existence. They can't conceive that the punishement of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who is responsible for the death of millions, is being "punished" merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn't even know that he is being punished.

God bless.

How do you know that Hitler wasn't saved?

It is your sense of justice that demands Hitler be paid back for his crimes.

It is not God's sense of justice.

God's justice is that the Jews would have thier lives restored.

However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19-31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn't asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." Jesus didn't make up a story for the Greek mythologists. He was giving a clear warning.
God bless.

The story of the rich man and lazarus is not about hell - it is about Hades. Hades does not denote punishment or torment, it is literally 'the place of the dead'. Unless Heaven is being in Abraham's bosom, then we should not interpret this as hell.

Furthermore, whether it be hell or not, we must note that the rich man was not in torment. He was in odunao which means grief, pain, suffering. It mainly infers mental, not physical, pain. The same word is used to describe the distress that Mary and Joseph felt after they discovered the 12 year old Jesus was missing.


Blessings to all, Pete

 

[CrossMovement]

The story of the rich man and lazarus is not about hell - it is about Hades. Hades does not denote punishment or torment, it is literally 'the place of the dead'. Unless Heaven is being in Abraham's bosom, then we should not interpret this as hell.

Furthermore, whether it be hell or not, we must note that the rich man was not in torment. He was in odunao which means grief, pain, suffering. It mainly infers mental, not physical, pain. The same word is used to describe the distress that Mary and Joseph felt after they discovered the 12 year old Jesus was missing.


Blessings to all, Pete

You have a Good point ... I will add a little more (it is the same text as my first post , but just in case that people didn't read till the end , you will see this part


The Rich Man and Lazarus

Many have used the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to try to prove that people go right to heaven or to hell at death. This was never Jesus' intention in employing this story. The word Jesus used for "hell" was "Hades," a place of torment in Greek mythology. All of the Jews listening to this discourse would have understood that Jesus was using a well-known myth to illustrate a point. If we take a closer look at Luke 16:19-31, this parable is filled with symbols that Jesus never intended for us to take literally.

For example, do all the saved go to Abraham's bosom? No.
Would a drop of water cool the tongue of a person burning in hell? No.
Does Abraham decide who is saved and who is lost? No.

In the same way, this parable cannot be used to teach that people who die before the last judgment day at the end of the world will go right to heaven or to hell when they die. John 12:48 declares, "The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

So what does this parable mean? The rich man was a symbol of the Jewish nation, feasting on the Scriptures while the beggar at the gate--the Gentiles--were starving for the Word. Jesus concluded the parable with the observation that "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31. Indeed, Jesus did later raise a man named Lazarus from the dead, and most of the Jewish leaders still did not believe (John 12:9-11).

 

[FineLinen]

Carl Carlson: Actually there are more than that! Sh@owl is translated in the K.J.V. as hell and grave, as well as pit. Furthermore; you will also find that tartarus is mentioned in one passage of Scripture, also translated hell.

There are three words translated "hell" in Scripture:

Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22-23)

Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18, Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)

Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)

The rich man who found himself in hell (Luke 16:19-31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn't asleep in the grave; he was in a place of "torment." Jesus didn't make up a story for the Greek mythologists. He was giving a clear warning.

Can you tell us the significance of the following in the parable of Lazarus and the richman?

1. What qualified the rich man for hell?

2. What qualified the poor man for "Abraham's bosom"?

3. What is the significance of Abraham's bosom?

4. What is the significance of.....

a. the sores of Lazarus

b. the dogs & the same licking the sores of Lazarus.

c. the crumbs falling from the rich mans table.

d. a drop of water, rather than a cup or litre, or gallon.

5. Why is the rich man communicating with Abraham?

http://hellbusters.8m.com/biblehell2.htm

 

[FineLinen]

The following Scriptures are the entire Old Testament teaching regarding hell. You will find 63 Scriptures that the K.J.V. translators have seen fit to translate hell, and grave, and pit, from the same word, sh@`owl/ sheol.

Can you tell us what Scriptures mean hell? What mean pit? What mean grave?

Sh@'owl= Hell (K.J.V.)

Sh@'owl= Grave (K.J.V.)

Sh@`owl = Pit (K.J.V.)


Gen. 37:15

"And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into sheol unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him."

Gen. 42:38

"And he said, My son shall not go down with you; for his brother is dead, and he is left alone: if mischief befall him by the way in the which ye go, then shall ye bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to sheol.

Gen. 44:29

"And if ye take this also from me, and mischief befall him, ye shall bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to sheol.

Gen. 44:31

"It shall come to pass, when he seeth that the lad is not with us, that he will die: and thy servants shall bring down the gray hairs of thy servant our father with sorrow to sheol."

Numbers 16:30

"But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them and they go down quick into sheol; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord."

Numbers 16:33

"They, and all that pertained to them, went down alive into sheol, and the earth closed about them."

Deut. 32:22

"For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn into the lowest sheol, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains."

1 Samuel 2:6

"The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to sheol, and bringeth up again."

2 Samuel 22:6

"The sorrows of sheol compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me."

1 Kings 2:6

"Do therefore according to thy wisdom, and let not his hoar head go down to sheol in peace."

1 Kings 2:9

"Now therefore hold him not guiltless: for thou art a wise man, and knowest what thou oughtest to do unto him; but his hoar head bring thou down to sheol with blood."

Job 7:9

"As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to sheol shall come up no more."

Job 11:8

"It is high as heaven; what canst thou do? Deeper than shoel; what canst thou know?"

Job 14:13

"O that thou wouldest hide me in sheol, that thou wouldest keep in in secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!"

Job 17:13

"If I wait, sheol is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness."

Job 17:16

"They shall go down to the bars of sheol, when our rest together is in the dust."

Job 21:13

"They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to sheol."

Job 24:19

"Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth sheol to those which have sinned."

Job 26:6

"Sheol is naked before him, and destruction hath no covering."

Psl. 6:5

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in sheol who shall give thee thanks?

Psl. 9:17

"The wicked shall be turned into sheol, and all the nations that forget God."

Psl. 16:10

"For thou wilt not leave my soul in sheol; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption."

Psl. 18:5

"The sorrows of sheol compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me."

Psl. 30:3

"Oh Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from sheol: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit."

Psl. 31:17

"Let me not be ashamed, O Lord; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in sheol."

Psl. 49:14

"Like sheep they are laid in sheol; death shall feed them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in sheol from their dwelling."

Psl. 49:15

"But God will redeem my soul from the power of sheol: for he shall receive me."

Psl. 55:15

"Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into sheol; for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them."

Psl. 86:13

"For great is thy mercy toward me; and thou has delivered my soul from the lowest sheol."

Psl. 88:3

"For my soul is full of troubles: and my life draweth unto sheol."

Psl. 89:48

"What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of sheol? Selah "

Psl. 116:3

"The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of sheol gat hold of me: I found trouble and sorrow."

Psl. 139:8

"If I ascend into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in sheol, behold, thou art there."

Psl. 141:7

"Our bones are scattered at sheols mouth, as one cutteth and cleaveth wood upon the earth."

Eccl. 9:19

"Whatever thy hand findeth to do, do it with all thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in shoel, whither thou goest."

Proverbs 1:12

"Let us swallow them up alive as sheol; and whole, as those that go down into the pit."

Prov. 5:5

"Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on sheol."

Proverbs 7:27

"Her house is the way to sheol, going down to the chambers of death."

Proverbs 9:18

"But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of sheol."

Proverbs 15:11

"Shoel and destruction are before the Lord; how much more then, the hearts of men?"

Prov. 15:24

"The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from sheol beneath."

Prov. 23:14

"Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from sheol."

Prov. 27:20

"Sheol and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied."

Proverbs 30:16

"Sheol; and the barren womb; the earth that is filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough."

Song Of Solomon 8:6

"Set me as a seal upon thy heart; as a seal upon thy arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as sheol: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame."

Isa. 5:14

"Therefore sheol hath enlarged herself. and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it."

Isa. 14:9

"Sheol from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming; it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up all her thrones, all the kings of the earth.

Isa. 14:11

"Thy pomp is brought down to sheol, and the noise of thy vials: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee."

Isa. 14:15

"Yet thou shalt be brought down to sheol, to the sides of the pit."

Isa. 28:15

"Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with sheol are we in agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through it, it shall not come unto us; for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves."

Isa. 28:18

"And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with sheol shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it."

Isa. 38:10

"I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of sheol: for I am deprived of the residue of my years."

Isa. 38:18

"For sheol cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth."

Isa. 57:9

"And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself unto sheol."

Ezekiel 31:15

"Thus saith the Lord God; In the day when he went down to sheol I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed....."

Ezek. 31:16

"I made the nations shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to sheol with him that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and the best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth."

Ezek. 31:17

"They also went down into sheol with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen."

Ezek. 32:21

"The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of sheol with them that help him: they are gone down, they lie uncircumcised, slain with the sword."

Ezek. 32:27

"And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to sheol with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living."

Hosea 13:14

"I will ransom them from the power of sheol; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O sheol, I will be thy destruction; repentance shall be hid from mine eyes."

Amos 9:2

"Though they dig into sheol, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down."

Habakkuk 2:5

"Yea also, because he transgresseth wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as sheol, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth all nations, and heapeth unto him all people."

Jonah 2:2

"And said, I cried by reason of my affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of sheol cried I, and thou heardest my voice.




_________________
"When the eyes of the soul looking out meet the eyes of God looking in, heaven has begun right here on this earth."

 

[FineLinen]

How do you know that Hitler wasn't saved?

It is your sense of justice that demands Hitler be paid back for his crimes.

It is not God's sense of justice.

God's justice is that the Jews would have thier lives restored.



The story of the rich man and lazarus is not about hell - it is about Hades. Hades does not denote punishment or torment, it is literally 'the place of the dead'. Unless Heaven is being in Abraham's bosom, then we should not interpret this as hell.

Furthermore, whether it be hell or not, we must note that the rich man was not in torment. He was in odunao which means grief, pain, suffering. It mainly infers mental, not physical, pain. The same word is used to describe the distress that Mary and Joseph felt after they discovered the 12 year old Jesus was missing.


Blessings to all, Pete

Hi there Pete I believe you will find the word used is basanos, not adunatos.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B42C016.htm#V28

Basanos=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=931&version=kjv

Adunatos=

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=102&version=kjv

[move]"And the leaves of the Tree of Life are for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse/katanathema..."[/move]

*** Katanathema rooted in anathema.

 

[Carl Carlson]

EDIT : OH , I see now my big mistake ... I stated my point with the word HELL (first sentenece) ... I never wanted to imply it like that (I can see now some of the confusion you had)... If you read the rest of my post , you will see that it wasn't my intention ... I'm sorry , I should have been more attentive to what I was writing ... sometime , even a single word mistake can change the whole point of the post ... You were right to think like that , and I apologize for my mistake since it could have confuse more people that would maybe not have writing a reply or understood the real point ... Thank you for the reply

, the writing mistake as now been changed.

I understand how a post can be easily misinterpreted. Thank you for your explanation, now I have a better understanding of what you are saying. I didn't mean to take anything out of context or attack you in any manner, but I don't believe you took it that way, atleast I hope that you didn't.

Thanks for your understanding and God bless!

 

[Carl Carlson]

How do you know that Hitler wasn't saved?

It is your sense of justice that demands Hitler be paid back for his crimes.

It is not God's sense of justice.

God's justice is that the Jews would have thier lives restored.

The story of the rich man and lazarus is not about hell - it is about Hades. Hades does not denote punishment or torment, it is literally 'the place of the dead'. Unless Heaven is being in Abraham's bosom, then we should not interpret this as hell.

Furthermore, whether it be hell or not, we must note that the rich man was not in torment. He was in odunao which means grief, pain, suffering. It mainly infers mental, not physical, pain. The same word is used to describe the distress that Mary and Joseph felt after they discovered the 12 year old Jesus was missing.


Blessings to all, Pete

Do we honestly have to contend for the salvation of Hitler? Is this just playing the devil's advocate? Tell me what you feel God's sense of judgement is? Also, what do you mean by "God's justice is that the Jews would have their lives restored"?

You feel as though hell and hades are different and their is no torment in hades?

Luke 16:19-28
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side (where is Abraham? With God?). The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell (or hades) where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Would someone in mental pain need water? Or be in agony as a result of fire? I can agonize over missing the ball to lose the game for my team and I can agonize over a dump truck crushing my leg. If I were in fire, I would certainly be in agony. If I were without Jesus, I would be in great agony in every sense of the word.

God bless.

 

[Carl Carlson]

Carl Carlson: Actually there are more than that! Sh@owl is translated in the K.J.V. as hell and grave, as well as pit. Furthermore; you will also find that tartarus is mentioned in one passage of Scripture, also translated hell.

Can you tell us the significance of the following in the parable of Lazarus and the richman?

1. What qualified the rich man for hell?

2. What qualified the poor man for "Abraham's bosom"?

3. What is the significance of Abraham's bosom?

4. What is the significance of.....

a. the sores of Lazarus

b. the dogs & the same licking the sores of Lazarus.

c. the crumbs falling from the rich mans table.

d. a drop of water, rather than a cup or litre, or gallon.

5. Why is the rich man communicating with Abraham?

http://hellbusters.8m.com/biblehell2.htm

Details, details, details. I'm not a smart man and I certainly don't claim to be. I will answer questions that are asked of me, though.

The rich man ignored the ones in need. He had a chance to help him, to love his neighbor as himself, but he chose himself over all others, including God and His holy instruction.

Lazarus obviously received salvation to get to heaven. That's the only way I know that a grown man can get there. Do you know of any others?

Abraham's bosom was a place of comfort. verse 25:"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony."

Other translations say "Abraham's side". Either way, we know that the angels took Lazarus and that I would be foolish to think they were any place but heaven.

I don't know how deep you want to get into the significance of the sores of Lazarus, I've heard plenty of theories on this story and its specifics. David humbly described himself as a dog, referencing a lowly animal at the time. So something lowly licking your wounds wouldn't give you much standing in society. Basically, was in bad shape, at the bottom, where we need help the most. He desired the crumbs because he was hungry. He may have also been hungry for God, I don't know, but as Christians, we should be. Either way, he wanted help from the rich man and received none.

A drop of water? I don't know if they had gallons or litres at the time. I've seen litres in Canada and I still can't tell how much gas that would be by the Canadian dollar. I don't want to speculate on the drop other than he's asking for a little amount, the same way the beggar only wanted crumbs but was refused.

The rich man is now the one begging. He has nothing but time on his hands to lement his bad decisions and to think about others that will be sent into torment as a result of his not showing love to others and helping them. That is a torment in itself. I hate to think of friends and family going to hell, but that's what happens when we reject God and His explicit commands.

The main thing is to reach out to those we don't want to see go to hell, which should be everyone we come across. I pray that I will be used to do this and will not let the needy die at my doorstep. Amen.

God bless.

 

[hola]

A drop of water?...I don't want to speculate on the drop other than he's asking for a little amount, the same way the beggar only wanted crumbs but was refused.

The rich man is now the one begging.

I think that is a pretty interesting point Carl!

He has nothing but time on his hands to lement his bad decisions and to think about others that will be sent into torment as a result of his not showing love to others and helping them. That is a torment in itself. I hate to think of friends and family going to hell, but that's what happens when we reject God and His explicit commands.

The main thing is to reach out to those we don't want to see go to hell, which should be everyone we come across. I pray that I will be used to do this and will not let the needy die at my doorstep. Amen.

God bless.

Very Good...God bless.

 

[CrossMovement]

I understand how a post can be easily misinterpreted. Thank you for your explanation, now I have a better understanding of what you are saying. I didn't mean to take anything out of context or attack you in any manner, but I don't believe you took it that way, atleast I hope that you didn't.

Thanks for your understanding and God bless!

no , I didn't took it in a bad way ... I found your reply very respectful

God Bless