Doctors vs. Oath

[momalle1]

With divides like this its no wonder nothing can get accomplished. What you wrote is simply wrong. Pro lifers favor no abortions at all.

Pro "choicers" will favor abortion even if in a back alley because they consider it to be a womans "right".

But as a Christian I find it abominable to destroy these works of God. I assume you're Christian. It is beyond understanding how you can support abortion of the innocents.

There are things that can be done as you suggest. If they were to be accomplished would you then be against abortion? If so contact your Democratic representives and senators. They stand squarely in the way of progress on this issue. It will take both Republicans and Democrats to fix this.

loriersea's comments are no more divisive than yours. Some people simply favor freedom over you telling them what to do. I don't understand how a Chrsitian and American doesn't support that. Again, you are divisive at the end blaming Democrats only for the problem. How can you say that divisiveness is a big problem and then be divisive?

 

[ballfan]

loriersea's comments are no more divisive than yours. Some people simply favor freedom over you telling them what to do. I don't understand how a Chrsitian and American doesn't support that. Again, you are divisive at the end blaming Democrats only for the problem. How can you say that divisiveness is a big problem and then be divisive?

One side is being divisive in favor of ending a despicable practice. That would be my position.

So far what I'm seeing from her is divisive in favor of continueing that practice.

I think the majority of Republicans in congress would be against abortion. I think they would vote that way. I feel the Democrats are in the opposite camp. It will take both because in the end thats what it might take to overcome the courts. Because of the democratic opposition they do in fact stand in the way.

I'm coming from my beliefs as a Christian. Again I realize not all Americans are Christians. I favor freedom but I would think that everyone would understand that freedom doesn't mean just everything right and just or that we can do just anything we want. Even freedom has its limits .

 

[loriersea]

One side is being divisive in favor of ending a despicable practice. That would be my position.

So far what I'm seeing from her is divisive in favor of continueing that practice.

And, I see you trying to continue the practice of abortion, too: you just want them to be illegal abortions where women might die, whereas I think they should be safe, legal, and rare.

What is divisive is pretending that the issue is: Is abortion good or bad? or Is abortion right or wrong? or Should we have abortions or not? Those are pointless, inane questions. There have always been abortions, and there will always be abortions. The issue is if they should be safe and legal or dangerous and illegal, and what realistic steps we can take to make them as rare as possible.

You are being divisive when you make comments comparing those who are "pro-life" versus those who "strongly favor abortion." That's not the issue. Before Roe, there were plenty of abortions; they were just dangerous and illegal. Around the world millions of abortions occur every year in countries where abortion is illegal. Making abortion illegal does nothing but increase the number of illegal abortions dramatically.

 

[momalle1]

One side is being divisive in favor of ending a despicable practice. That would be my position.

Maybe, but being right, or wrong, has nothing to do with be divisive. Taking the time and effort to lead people away from having abortions, and offering real alternatives, will reach your goal without being divisive.

 

[Gracchus]

Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

Translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_classical.html

Hippocratic Oath -- Modern Version

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.


I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_modern.html

Please note that the “modern version” does not entail swearing to Apollo, nor does it forbid abortion.

There is a distinction between what is legal and what is moral. What is legal is a matter between the individual and society. A jury will decide. What is moral is between the individual and the Lord. The Lord will decide. Abortion is legal. Whether it is immoral is a matter of debate.

I believe I should be more concerned about my own actions, than those of others. Most Christians seem to prefer gouging the motes out of the eyes of their brothers and sisters, and cousins and strangers.

To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.

KJV Deuteronomy 31:35

Of course that is as true of those who go to war as those who perform abortions.