Do you think there is a moral issue with obeying God out of fear rather than love?

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

A conversation came up this week with a friend of mine.

He mentioned that, being entirely truthful, he abstained from many acts which he viewed as sin, not out of his love for Christ, but out of fear of Christ. He struggled to arrive at the conclusion, that the reason he did not view pornography, was not because he loved God, but was instead, because he feared God.

I thought this posed a interesting question

Is it a requirement to love God? Or is it simply enough to obey God out of fear?

 

[Davian]

"Out of fear" sounds like a pretty sad theology.

 

[MehGuy]

No, you're supposed to love God and fear him. Both, at the same time.

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

"Out of fear" sounds like a pretty sad theology.

I wouldn't underestimate the emotion of fear, it is powerful and built into us by God.

Fear is a emotion I'd wager is as strong as love. Fear brings about panic of the mind, I've had someone held a gun to my head once when I was being robbed, it created some pretty strong emotions and obedience in me.

 

[MehGuy]

I wouldn't underestimate the emotion of fear, it is powerful and built into us by God.

Fear is a emotion I'd wager is as strong as love. Fear brings about panic of the mind, I've had someone held a gun to my head once when I was being robbed, it created some pretty strong emotions and obedience in me.

*claps*

 

[Davian]

I wouldn't underestimate the emotion of fear, it is powerful and built into us by God.

Allegedly.

Fear is a emotion I'd wager is as strong as love. Fear brings about panic of the mind, I've had someone held a gun to my head once when I was being robbed, it created some pretty strong emotions and obedience in me.

Sounds like the kind of control a theocracy would like to have over its people.

 

[Sketcher]

Is it a requirement to love God? Or is it simply enough to obey God out of fear?

What does Matthew 22:37-38 say?

 

[bhsmte]

I wouldn't underestimate the emotion of fear, it is powerful and built into us by God.

Fear is a emotion I'd wager is as strong as love. Fear brings about panic of the mind, I've had someone held a gun to my head once when I was being robbed, it created some pretty strong emotions and obedience in me.

Fear is a powerful emotion and is required for survival.

The problem comes in, when fear is overexposed to individuals and they have a likely hood of incurring psychological issues because of being overexposed to fear.

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

What does Matthew 22:37-38 say?

If Love is the first commandment, then it is fear which give rise to love.

Psalms 111:10 - The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

 

[Paule Patterson]

“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.” ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Fear is the beginning of wisdom, not the end. With my children, fear is often the motivator for obedience. Whether it is running in the street, touching a hot stove, or not throwing the rolling pin at their 18 month sister. They need to listen now and obey. Fear is a legitimate expression. Just as pain is a symptom of something being wrong, so is fear; it tells us to look out.

However, I do not want my children growing up in fear of the stove, rolling pins, or, worse, me. Fear then becomes the dysfunction of what it was meant to be. It becomes a phobia that controls us. The prime ethic I want my children to exist in is love.

Love is the standard by which the Law is written (Gal 5:14). It is the defining mark of one who actually knows God (1 John 2:7-11). It is the foundation of faith (James 2:14-16). Without love, we gain nothing (1 Corinthians 13).

Whil fear might be a legitimate starting point, it is not where God wants us to remain.

“There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:18‬ ‭ESV‬‬

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.” ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭1:7‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Fear is the beginning of wisdom, not the end. With my children, fear is often the motivator for obedience. Whether it is running in the street, touching a hot stove, or not throwing the rolling pin at their 18 month sister. They need to listen now and obey. Fear is a legitimate expression. Just as pain is a symptom of something being wrong, so is fear; it tells us to look out.

However, I do not want my children growing up in fear of the stove, rolling pins, or, worse, me. Fear then becomes the dysfunction of what it was meant to be. It becomes a phobia that controls us. The prime ethic I want my children to exist in is love.

Love is the standard by which the Law is written (Gal 5:14). It is the defining mark of one who actually knows God (1 John 2:7-11). It is the foundation of faith (James 2:14-16). Without love, we gain nothing (1 Corinthians 13).

Whil fear might be a legitimate starting point, it is not where God wants us to remain.

“There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:18‬ ‭ESV‬‬

Fear is referenced throughout the bible as being our salvation from evil. I would say even more so than love.

Proverbs 8:13 - The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

Proverbs 14:26 - In the fear of the LORD [is] strong confidence: and his children shall have a place of refuge.

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psalms 33:8 - Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.

 

[Paule Patterson]

I never stated that fear could not lead to salvation, but rather that fear would not be the end. God is not fear but love (1 John 4:6). Within love, there is a healthy respect of fear. As a father, I do not want my children to view me as just as a social buddy but rather someone of inportance and respect. Healthy fear finds its place in love. Love, scripurtally speaking, is the highest of all motivations, not fear.

 

[faroukfarouk]

There's both the fear of judgment associated with unbelief and reverential fear associated with faith.

 

[Paule Patterson]

Yes. And yet, the text says God is love, not fear. And that love casts out all fear. And that God acted in love to save us

 

[grasping the after wind]

IMO God does not really want to be an abusive parent, a nit picker, a busy body or a scold . Why so many want Him to be that amazes me. As was earlier pointed out, fear of God is only the beginning of wisdom not the end of it. Fear is for the motivation of the toddler not of the adult. If fear motivates one to refrain from evil that is a good thing but it is not much help in complying with the commandment to Love God with all your heart and soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself now is it? Can you ever be frightened into loving someone? I doubt it and love is not simply going through the motions to make a pretense of loving. Does a "good deed" have any meaning in terms of the commandment I referenced if it is done solely out of fear rather than out of love? If a person gives all they have to the poor out of fear of punishment from God the motivation would be self love would it not? Putting one's own welfare first is the antithesis of love God and neighbor.

 

[Dave-W]

Is it a requirement to love God? Or is it simply enough to obey God out of fear?

Deuteronomy 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Deuteronomy 10:12 “And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

 

[fhansen]

A conversation came up this week with a friend of mine.

He mentioned that, being entirely truthful, he abstained from many acts which he viewed as sin, not out of his love for Christ, but out of fear of Christ. He struggled to arrive at the conclusion, that the reason he did not view pornography, was not because he loved God, but was instead, because he feared God.

I thought this posed a interesting question

Is it a requirement to love God? Or is it simply enough to obey God out of fear?

To love God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength is the epitome of perfection and justice for man; its the very purpose and goal of our faith. I love the way Basil of Cesarea, a 3rd or 4th century believer, put it:

If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.

 

[Dave-W]

If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. I

Romans 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

[fhansen]

Romans 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

And God seeks to draw man into this slavery. Love simply cannot be compelled, and God won't do so. We become just to the extent that we love freely, willingly. And God's worthy of that, of course. We're just here to learn why and how to do it. We're here to learn that He's worthy of our love, with the help of grace.

 

[Paulos23]

A conversation came up this week with a friend of mine.

He mentioned that, being entirely truthful, he abstained from many acts which he viewed as sin, not out of his love for Christ, but out of fear of Christ. He struggled to arrive at the conclusion, that the reason he did not view pornography, was not because he loved God, but was instead, because he feared God.

I thought this posed a interesting question

Is it a requirement to love God? Or is it simply enough to obey God out of fear?

I would say that if you are obeying God out of fear, you are not moral, you are just following the rules to avoid punishment. Which becomes a problem when dealing with a moral situation that is not dealt with in God's commands.

I never understood fearing God and loving him at the same time.