Do you recognize the word of God when you read it...

very_irreverand_Bill · Oct 14, 2006

"It is only in the Creation that all our ideas and conceptions of a 'Word of God' can unite. The Creation speaketh an universal language, multiplied and variuos as they may be. It is an ever-existing original, which every man can read. It cannot be forged; it cannot be counterfeited; it cannot be lost; it cannot be altered; it cannot be supressed. It does not depend on the will of man whether it shall be published or not; it publishes itself from one end of the earth to the other. It preaches to all nations and to all worlds; and this 'Word of God' reveals to man all that is neccassery for man to know of God"-Thomas Paine

"The Bible of the creation is inexhaustible in texts. Every part of science, whether connected with the geometry of the universe, with the systems of animal and vegetable life, or with the properties of inanimate matter, is a text as well for devotion as for philosophy--for gratitude, as for human improvement. It will perhaps be said, that if such a revolution in the system of religion takes place, every preacher ought to be a philosopher. Most certainly, and every house of devotion a school of science."-Thoma Paine

I recognize the "word" of the Cosmocrator- Creation/Universe{s}, itself.
There can be no other that is not written by human or other sentient limited lifeforms and their biases; all others are forgeries masquearding as the word of god.

In Reason:
Irrev.Bill

ERice2nd · Oct 14, 2006

TrevorKamal said:
This:

...followed by this:

...makes no sense to me and is exactly what i'm talking about. If you believe there's more then why would you be afraid to investigate it?

Tempted to doubt what? Tempted to doubt that there isn't more? Why would you be afraid of getting closer to the truth if there could be more out there? Maybe you'll read them and decide that they're all liars but isn't it silly not to even look? It reminds me of not going to the doctor so that you never have to be told you're sick.

After the bible, the word of God is spoken directly to my heart. I'm not afraid of investigating it, I only have to listen. once I learn to listen then I will hear the word of God, not just read it. "I will write my word on men's hearts." "The word of God will be written on men's hearts" these passages appear in the Bible, which tells me I only have to listen. On a further note, I am not interested in any book if it tells me that Jesus was just a prophet instead of the son of God. I know what Jesus did for us and I understand the full measure of what that means.

ERice2nd · Oct 14, 2006

Let me add for a moment, I do believe that the Muslims, Jews, and Christians all worship the same God, they just have different points of view of a great many things. (not so much between Jews and Christian, except on one major point that I know of, The Massiah)

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2006

ERice2nd said:
Let me add for a moment, I do believe that the Muslims, Jews, and Christians all worship the same God, they just have different points of view of a great many things. (not so much between Jews and Christian, except on one major point that I know of, The Massiah)

In another thread, the Jews actually called for a debate with the Muslims on that very thing.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2987138-formal-debate-call-out-to-the-muslims.html
formal debate call out to the muslims

Hosea 13:14 From the hand of Sheol I do Ransom them, From death I Redeem Them [Israel and Judah], Where [is] thy plague, O death? Where thy destruction, O Sheol? Repentance is hid from Mine eyes.

Luke 1:66 and all who heard did lay them up in their hearts, saying, `What then shall this child be?' and the hand of the Lord was with him. 67 And Zacharias his father was filled with the Holy Spirit, and did prophesy, saying, 68 `Blessed [is] the Lord, the God of Israel, Because He did look upon, And wrought redemption for His People, 69 And did raise an horn of Salvation to Us, In the house of David His servant, 70 As He spake by the mouth of His holy prophets,

ERice2nd · Oct 14, 2006

LittleLambofJesus said:
In another thread, the Jews actually called for a debate with the Muslims on that very thing.

http://www.christianforums.com/t2987138-formal-debate-call-out-to-the-muslims.html
formal debate call out to the muslims

Hosea 13:14 From the hand of Sheol I do Ransom them, From death I Redeem Them [Israel and Judah], Where [is] thy plague, O death? Where thy destruction, O Sheol? Repentance is hid from Mine eyes.

Luke 1:66 and all who heard did lay them up in their hearts, saying, `What then shall this child be?' and the hand of the Lord was with him. 67 And Zacharias his father was filled with the Holy Spirit, and did prophesy, saying, 68 `Blessed [is] the Lord, the God of Israel, Because He did look upon, And wrought redemption for His People, 69 And did raise an horn of Salvation to Us, In the house of David His servant, 70 As He spake by the mouth of His holy prophets,

Interesting that they would call a debate since both are decended from Abraham. Ishmeal, father of the muslim nation and Issac, father of Isreal. I got this info from a study bible

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2006

ERice2nd said:
Interesting that they would call a debate since both are decended from Abraham. Ishmeal, father of the muslim nation and Issac, father of Isreal. I got this info from a study bible

The Muslims also deny Paul as sent by Christ.[as do the Jews also of course]

, 26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is the mother of us all, .....30 but what saith the Writing? `Be you casting out! [#1544 ekbale] the maid-servant and her son, for the son of the maid-servant may not be heir with the son of the free-woman;' [Genesis 21:10]

Reve 11:2 And the Court [#833], the one without[ exqen] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be you Casting- Out! [#1544 ekbale ] Out-side [#1854 exw] and ye should not be measuring it/her,

ERice2nd · Oct 14, 2006

LittleLambofJesus said:
The Muslims also deny Paul as sent by Christ.[as do the Jews also of course]

, 26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is the mother of us all, .....30 but what saith the Writing? `Be you casting out! [#1544 ekbale] the maid-servant and her son, for the son of the maid-servant may not be heir with the son of the free-woman;' [Genesis 21:10]

read Genisis 21:8-20, God says he will make a nation from Ishmeal as well because he is also the offspring of Abraham. that is the muslim nation.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2006

ERice2nd said:
Interesting that they would call a debate since both are decended from Abraham. Ishmeal, father of the muslim nation and Issac, father of Isreal. I got this info from a study bible

read Genisis 21:8-20, God says he will make a nation from Ishmeal as well because he is also the offspring of Abraham.

I know Genesis and Revelation quite well.
As Paul says, it is ALLEGHORICAL and the Jews would understand what this means!

Gala 4:24 which things are allegorized, for these are the Two Covenants: one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar;

, 26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is the mother of us all, .....30 but what saith the Writing? `Be you casting out! [#1544 ekbale] the maid-servant and her son, for the son of the maid-servant may not be heir with the son of the free-woman; ' [Genesis 21:10]

Reve 11:2 And the Court [#833], the one without[ exqen] the Sanctuary/Naos [#3485] be you Casting- Out! [#1544 ekbale ] Out-side [#1854 exw] and ye should not be measuring it/her,

TrevorKamal · Oct 14, 2006

After the bible, the word of God is spoken directly to my heart. I'm not afraid of investigating it, I only have to listen. once I learn to listen then I will hear the word of God, not just read it. "I will write my word on men's hearts." "The word of God will be written on men's hearts" these passages appear in the Bible, which tells me I only have to listen.

I would argue that reading constitutes listening for all intents and purposes.

I am not interested in any book if it tells me that Jesus was just a prophet instead of the son of God.

Isn't it more prudent to be interested in the truth whatever it may be and ignore what we WANT to believe?
Also, explain to me the difference between the highest form of Prophet sent directly from God and a metaphorical "Son" of God and why one is even considered better than the other. I can just as easily imagine someone saying, "I am not interested in any book if it tells me that Jesus was just an offspring of God instead of the Great Prophet of God." It's all semantics.

read Genisis 21:8-20, God says he will make a nation from Ishmeal as well because he is also the offspring of Abraham. that is the muslim nation.

Interesting. I never caught that.

TrevorKamal · Oct 14, 2006

That is why Bahais are not Muslims. They always tend to find 'common grounds' between faiths of different religions...

That is because if the faiths are from the same God, as both Muslims and Baha'is agree that Christianity and Islam are, then there is common ground to be found, period. Anything else is clinging to religious pride.

ERice2nd · Oct 14, 2006

TrevorKamal said:
Interesting. I never caught that.

Its there take a read if you like, or dont up to you

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2006

ERice2nd said:
Its there take a read if you like, or dont up to you

Don't forget Jacob/Israel and Esau were also Twins with the 12 sons of Jacob born of 4 different women and Israel is also under Deut 28..

Deut 28:15 " But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: [SIZE=+2].....[/SIZE]20 " The LORD will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me .

zeph 1: 15 That day [is] a day of wrath, A day of trouble and distress, A day of devastation and desolation, A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, 16 A day of trumpet and alarm Against the fortified cities And against the high towers. 17 "I will bring distress upon men, And they shall walk like blind men, Because they have sinned against the LORD; Their blood shall be poured out like dust, And their flesh like Dung."

ERice2nd · Oct 14, 2006

TrevorKamal said:
That is because if the faiths are from the same God, as both Muslims and Baha'is agree that Christianity and Islam are, then there is common ground to be found, period. Anything else is clinging to religious pride.

I agree, there is commen ground. there are some things though that I cant give up. If everyone was willing to tolerate the differences (no matter the context) then this world would be a much safer place

9Harmony · Oct 14, 2006

glo1 said:
The Bible has nothing directly to say about the authenticity of the Qu'ran (which clearly it couldn't, since the Qu'ran came into being much later). It does, however, warn of false teachers and people who will try to deny and reject God's word (in Christian eyes - of course - the Bible)
Therefore, anything that changes or rejects the Bible message (as the Qu'ran does) - from a Christian perspective - cannot be from God.

it's true that the Bible warns of false prophets, but it also tells us how to discern between them...

4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:

(King James Bible, 1 John)

45. Behold! the angels said "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

(The Qur'an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 3)

it appears the Qur'an does pass this vital test.

as for changing or rejecting the Bible, correct, man does not have the authority to change the words of the Bible, but if Mohammed is a prophet of God, He does have that authority, and He then is not changing but rather clarifying what men have distorted/obscured/misinterpreted.

ERice2nd · Oct 14, 2006

LittleLambofJesus said:
Don't forget Jacob/Israel and Esau were also Twins with the 12 sons of Jacob born of 4 different women..

Deut 28:15 " But it shall come to pass, ifyou do not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: [SIZE=+2].....[/SIZE]20 " The LORD will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me .

I'm not sure where you are going with this LittleLamb. Its true that ishmeal didnt recieve the inheritance, Isaac did then it passed to Jacob/Isreal. That doesnt refute God's word that he will make a nation of Ishmeal. He also made a nation of Esau, which, I believe, was later destroyed by God's command

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2006

Originally Posted by glo1

The Bible has nothing directly to say about the authenticity of the Qu'ran (which clearly it couldn't, since the Qu'ran came into being much later). It does, however, warn of false teachers and people who will try to deny and reject God's word (in Christian eyes - of course - the Bible)
Therefore, anything that changes or rejects the Bible message (as the Qu'ran does) - from a Christian perspective - cannot be from God.

9Harmony said:

it's true that the Bible warns of false prophets, but it also tells us how to discern between them...

Click to expand...

9Harmony said:
it appears the Qur'an does pass this vital test.

as for changing or rejecting the Bible, correct, man does not have the authority to change the words of the Bible, but if Mohammed is a prophet of God, He does have that authority, and He then is not changing but rather clarifying what men have distorted/obscured/misinterpreted.

So says the Bahai's. I just lost all respect for your religion's interpretation of our Bible after that statement though I still respect you as a person. Peace.

Edit to add: I do not think much of Muhammad's commentary on our Bible either btw.

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished! [#5055]" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

[ISA] Revelation 1:1 [a/an] Revealing/Un-veiling[ apo-kaluyiV] Jesus Christ, which gives/edwken <1325> to him, the God, to show to the bondservants of Him, which[P] is behooving to be becoming in swiftness;

TrevorKamal · Oct 14, 2006

So says the Bahai's. I just lost all respect for your religion's interpretation of our Bible after that statement though

Which of her statements offended you?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2006

So says the Bahai's. I just lost all respect for your religion's interpretation of our Bible after that statement though I still respect you as a person. Peace.

Edit to add: I do not think much of Muhammad's commentary on our Bible either btw.

http://www.christianforums.com/t392...-for-muslims-regarding-islamic-scripture.html

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished! [#5055]" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

[ISA] Revelation 1:1 [a/an] Revealing/Un-veiling[ apo-kaluyiV] Jesus Christ, which gives/edwken <1325> to him, the God, to show to the bondservants of Him, which is behooving to be becoming in swiftness;

Click to expand...

TrevorKamal said:
Which of her statements offended you?

If they agree Muhammad is a prophet of God and has authority over the Christian Bible to change it to conform to their own beliefs and views, then that is what I am objecting to, even though that is what the Muslims themselves accuse christians of.

I use strictly the Bible so I haven't been influenced by other religious books outside of it, neither the Koran or the Jewish Talmud. Thoughts?

http://www.christianforums.com/t392...-for-muslims-regarding-islamic-scripture.html

but if Mohammed is a prophet of God, He does have that authority, and He then is not changing but rather clarifying what men have distorted/obscured/misinterpreted.

TrevorKamal · Oct 14, 2006

If they agree Muhammad is a prophet of God and has authority over the Christian Bible to change it to conform to their own beliefs and views, then that is what I am objecting to, even though that is what the Muslims themselves accuse christians of.

I think you're misunderstanding her then. It wasn't so much to change but to clarify misinterpretation and why would He not have the authority to do that assuming you believed He was sent by God? For example Jesus, upon His return, would certainly have the authority to tell us what we misinterpreted and what we did not.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 14, 2006

TrevorKamal said:
I think you're misunderstanding her then. It wasn't so much to change but to clarify misinterpretation and why would He not have the authority to do that assuming you believed He was sent by God? For example Jesus, upon His return, would certainly have the authority to tell us what we misinterpreted and what we did not.

I have my own view on "Jesus return" but that is a different topic, and it doesn't involve turning the world to "Islam" as the Muslims believe.

Muhammad only has authority with the Muslims, not with me.

John 11:48 if we may let Him alone thus, all will believe in him; and the Romans will come, and will take away both our place [topon <5117>] and nation.'

Reve 12:7 And there came war in the heaven; Michael [Daniel 12] and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers, 8 and they did not prevail, nor was their place [topoV <5117>] found any more in the heaven;

Reve 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the land and the heaven did flee away, and place [ topoV <5117>] was not found for them;

Do you recognize the word of God when you read it...

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