Do you love your enemies?

[whitestar]

I am wondering how many of you that hang out here in the Eschatology fourm follow Jesus teaching on this:

Matthew 5:

Love Your Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

If you are thinking, why yes I do, then please explain to me why you treat me as if I am your enemy without the loving your enemy part...let alone loving your neighbor part...

I am a fellow Christian but mostly treated like scum on here because I have a different end times view then most on here.

Why you all are watching and worrying about an antichrist coming, what the 'mark of the beast' might mean, and 'rumors of war' you are treating your fellow Christians worse then an enemy and I would like to know why?

My views of the end times ARE accepted Christian views...other wise it would not be allowed on here. But whenever I post my views I am trashed, called names and accussed of all sorts of things ...rather then anyone actually engaging in an intellegent converstation about it.

I suppose I could see myself as this when I am personally attacked or my view are (usually its made personal):

Matthew 5

11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Why do you take it so terribly personally yourself when someone does not agree with your point of view on the end times that you have to actually verbually attack people on here? Most people, sercure in their bible knowledge, would not need to resort to personal attacks...let alone even consider it being a Christian since we are expected to behave better then that.

And its not just me...but anyone holding my views (partial preterism), that comes on here gets attacked...like that one poor soul that posted about dating of Revelation before 70 A.D. was trashed so badly he never came back...I don't think he ever even came back to the board at all as his post count is still on something like seven!

Is this how Jesus taught us to act? If we were in the middle of the tribulation right now, does that excuse our behavior that we can turn on each other? Most of us are certainly at this moment far from suffering any attacks on our church, our home or our family just for being a Christian. No member of my church as been killed for being a Christian and I doubt in any of yours either...yet everyone gets so visious on here at times! I would hate to see what you all would act like if you really had something going on.

Does studying the end times mean we just ingore the rest of Jesus' teachings on how to treat each other? It appears it does sometimes on here. I see you pray for the ones on here that believe like you do...if I am your enemy, do you at least pray for me like Jesus says too?



God bless
WhiteStar

 

[exodus19]

Your point whitestar is heard, and has been understood in theory by most.

application is the most difficult of all.

for eg learning to love is truly the art of being one who does not sin. One who does not transgress his neighbour even enemy is the point Jesus is making about loving all and being even minded , ie spiritually towards all.
This forum is not anywhere near as bad as many, actually.

But there are the same problems here as elsewhere.

People do not understand what it truly means to 'love'.

The love put forth by the media and the cultural conditioners of this world of democracy and freedoms are the kinds of love that divide people.

When people are divoided and very individualistic then they have to fend for themselves.
This is another genius idea set in motion by 'King Evil" ie Satan and the Dragons of our cultures. Democracy and liberalism , even womens rights promotes individualism , increases divorce rate b/c the rights to freedoms causes each individual to fend for themselves and to stand on their own.
Hence the womens liberation movement, MOBILIZED ANOTHER 80 million people to go to work and pay taxes IE WORK FOR THE DEVILS OR KINGS OF YOUR CULTURE.
This mobilization creates division and division cause the ecomomy to to grow and increased Government Revenues allows for the them to establish thje Most Powerful army in the world. More revenue's bigger army.

so democracy and freedom and liberalism is the method to increasing your material desires and the system of the TV and their programming is set up to cause you to HATE YOUR NEIGHBOUR , DO NOT TRUST HIM/HER , EACH TO HIS.HER OWN.


This is what the HOLY PROPHETS taught in the OT that the leaders the JEWS were interested in exploitation, fornication with the white trash and aliens or heathens and abusing them.

GOD WAS MAD AT THE JEWS.

so today is no different, however to day GOD IS MAD AT THE CHRISTIAN HEADS WHO ALONG WITH THE JEWS AS PARTNERS are dividing the world and causing everyone to hate, while they say we are here to bring you peace and god.

THEY LIE BECUASE THEY ARE EVIL AND RULED BY THE SATAN FORCES THAT ARE SENT FROM GOD INTO THEIR HEARTS.

And isn't it wonderful that i can say that on world internet.

Well they call each other worse, but when i say it aleast for now on this forum, i get away with it.

WHY , BECAUSE THE SAME IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.

I CANNOT TAKE ANY CREDIT FOR THIS , THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS. SO IF THE GOVE BOYS EVER DECIDED I WAS A PERSON OF INTEREST (lol) they might be in for a surprise, b/c everything i repeat is allready WRITTEN BY THE HOLY PROPHETS

lolLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL

(*_*)


AND WHEN YOU ALL START HEARING THE HOLY PROPHETS you will realize that the DEVIL runs your world and these so called presidents and prime ministers are their reps.

but bigger than those guys are the behind scene OZ's whose last names come from the OT and sound rather familiar
lololololololololol

peace over

i love you whitestar.
don't worry about it, keep the faith, all this will soon pass and the Truth will be heard as promised by Our Father.

and you are getting glimpses of the 'two edged sword' right here on this forum, so don't go too far.


the division that the Lord promised is happening.

 

[Rafael]

I'd like to see the edge taken off of some of the conversations I see here, too. The Lord's word is edge enough, while we are to share the truth in love. I suppose people feel they are battling evil and doctrine of demons when they contend for the faith, so, indeed, it is difficult to eliminate completely an element of urgency for the truth to go forth instead of misdirection.

 

[exodus19]

rafeal,

you are absolutely right,
even i come across with an edge, and i know it, my daughter and others read my posts and they say it's very edgy even almost filled with pride, but there is not much room to change the sense of expression that comes from me in this type of venue.

but in real life i'm laid back and very easy to hear when we speak on this subject.

as i told my daughter yesterday, 2000 years ago, jesus spent the first 30 years just being as one of the boys and talking about going fishing and climbing trees going for hikes and so on, but after the anointing or the PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT BY JOHN that was it , it was over for the general conversation and all he did from then on out was under the magnifgying glass.
so i told her this day is coming soon , but girl, i;m i ready or what. and she said " you really are Dad, you really are" As well i said "get ready to have a ticket to an island somewhere to hide out", and she said i"t's all in the plan" lololol.

She is an 'angel in flight' and will be there come time, as you will see , she too is accountable and fully prepared to move on.

so keep increasing the faith and pray to stop all sin actions, even the first two commandments. These are going to be quite a test for most of those of faith.

hear carefully what the spirit saith to the churches
rev 2:14 and 20 will be a major challenge for many.

HEAR CAREFULLY, ALL MUST COME TO PASS ACCORDING TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS, NOT ONE WORD CAN BE CHANGED ADDED OR SUBTRACTED FROM GOD'S LAWS, THE SONG OF MOSES VERILY THE LAWS OF LIBERATION.

only New Zion will be the land of freedom and the spirit of harmony will run true and happiness and joy in full blown peace will be there.

God 's promise as is the Lord's prayer, is heaven or the Spirit of Love on earth in this world.

coming soon

will you be written in the book or will you continue to serve Devils?

 

[good4u]

You are right, WhiteStar...if your theology is different, you are rarely accepted.

Remember, it is not what you believe that is the truth it is what God says that makes truth.

Now, the question remains do you understand God's truth and interpret it correctly?

 

[listener]

Yeah....there is a tendency to get rather gnarly about a few subjects around here. Eschatology is one, and it is the one that is the most open to interpretational differences. This happens with a lot of differences we have, and that is a real shame. I hope ,when we are all together on the other side, that we can all get along.

 

[whitestar]

exodus19...you said my views were nothing but a cult in my other thread on here. Frankly that wasn't very nice and also very untrue. If you think my views are wrong, fine, say that..."I think these views are wrong and here's why"...give me something to look at in scriptures. Or just say, "I don't agree with these views"...there is no need to call it a cult and make jokes about it. Jesus never did that. Trying to say you are going by what the bible says in confronting people in this way is simply not true. The only ones Jesus ever ranted at were the Jewish leaders of His time...and when they were selling in the temple. Those are the only two times He ever ranted. That falls under 'righteous' anger...not, "you don't agree with me so I flame you anger".

good4uYou are right, WhiteStar...if your theology is different, you are rarely accepted.

Remember, it is not what you believe that is the truth it is what God says that makes truth.

Now, the question remains do you understand God's truth and interpret it correctly?

I believe I do. Others disagree which is perfectly fine...I don't slam them for not agreeing with me...that is the point of this post.

 

[good4u]

I believe I do. Others disagree which is perfectly fine...I don't slam them for not agreeing with me...that is the point of this post.

Then you are a better person than most on this board, if true. If some posters bother you too much, do what I do and include them on your ignore list. It will help tremendously.

Remember, you will NEVER change anyone's mind on this board. The only way I have changed my views from pretribulation rapture heresy to a more accurate biblical view of prewrath is by having a true open mind to understanding how ALL of Scripture fits together to let it speak for itself. I had to discard what I wanted and let God truly speak through his Word.

I was astonished after I realized I had been duped by pretribulation heresy. But I am so glad I was truly able to set aside what I wanted to hear and let God truly speak his difficult truth to me. Now, if I enter the 70th week of Daniel, I will understand the events around me and have the blessing of preparedness thru proper interpretation of his warnings. They are not for nothing and do indeed apply to the church at that dreadful time.

Anyway, not every poster is there and many on this board are in the throws of pretribulation heresy. You will never change them, only God can if they have open minds.

 

[OttawaUk]

Yes, the Body of Christ needs to pull together in the coming years. All the knowledge in the world about scripture is going to be meaningless if you do not know Jesus Christ and His teachings.

I've been trying to get this point accross for awhile now.

So Amen to that, brother.

OU

 

[DeirdreB]

...I have changed my views from pretribulation rapture heresy to a more accurate biblical view of prewrath...

...Now, if I enter the 70th week of Daniel, I will understand the events around me and have the blessing of preparedness thru proper interpretation of his warnings. They are not for nothing and do indeed apply to the church at that dreadful time...

Hi Good4U.

I understand your point of view because I was raised in the pre-trib tradition, and have now accepted the pre-wrath position for a little over a year now.

I do excercise great patience with pre-tribbers and have an interesting long distance, respectful dialogue with a pre-tribber in the UK, who I now consider a friend. He is very strong-willed but very up to date on end time issues (ie. EU, peace agreements, etc.) so we have agreed to disagree. He is a pre-tribber who accepts the possibilites and understands the implications if he is still here for the confirming of the covenant.

My question for you is what are you doing to prepare for those "difficult" times ahead. I know we must pray, but Jesus said in Mttw. 24 to flee. I personally think taking a survival class and stocking up on resources are going to be necessary during a time when refusing to take the mark could end in starvation at the least or ultimately in death. If faced with the choice I will die for Chirst, but in an effort to survive those times, I would like to be prepared to go underground.

I find too many people willing to give up and let the enemy find them. I have two little ones to care for and I don't desire to see them in that turbulent world without a mother to care for them.

What is your position on surviving the "great tribulation."

 

[good4u]

Hi Good4U.

I understand your point of view because I was raised in the pre-trib tradition, and have now accepted the pre-wrath position for a little over a year now.

Greetings, fellow believer who comes out of heresy into God's truth! As you atest, no one can change another's views unless God so wills it. I commend you for having a truly open mind!

I do excercise great patience with pre-tribbers and have an interesting long distance, respectful dialogue with a pre-tribber in the UK. He is very strong-willed but very up to date on end time issues (ie. EU, peace agreements, etc.) so we have agreed to disagree. He is a pre-tribber who accepts the possibilites and understands the implications if he is still here for the confirming of the covenant.

Very nice! I applaud you for having good spiritual maturity with those brothers who do not hold to truth, but as many are. you understand they are caught in Satan's lies to keep them from being prepared spiritually for what is yet to come upon the church.

My question for you is what are you doing to prepare for those "difficult" times ahead. I know we must pray, but Jesus said in Mttw. 24 to flee. I personally think taking a survival class and stocking up on resources are going to be necessary during a time when refusing to take the mark could end in starvation at the least or ultimately in death. If faced with the choice I will die for Chirst, but in an effort to survive those times, I would like to be prepared to go underground.

I find too many people willing to give up and let the enemy find them. I have two little ones to care for and I don't desire to see them in that turbulent world without a mother to care for them.

What is your position on surviving the "great tribulation."

Excellent question! What am I doing right now? You will be shocked -- nothing! Why? There is nothing physical that needs to be done YET for personal safety. The 70th week has not yet begun, as you know.

But what I am doing right now is this...I watch. I am alert as to world events and I look for one in particular that is the foreshadowing of the 70th week. When this event happens, the 70th week is imminent, IMHO. I look for a new, but powerful world political leader coming from either Eastern Europe or Western Russia to take over three countries around the Black Sea to start his polictical and military power block. This is the key event that must take place before the other seven nations will join his political confederation and eventual rule of the world.

That is the event I watch for now. Everything else is in place. The Jews are in Israel they have control over Jerusalem. There is one more piece to put in place (the politcal leader of the 3 country power block) before we enter the 70th week...then we will see whose tribulation theory is correct...

When will this happen? I do not know.

 

[good4u]

Duplicate reply.

 

[DeirdreB]

...Excellent question! What am I doing right now? You will be shocked -- nothing! Why? There is nothing physical that needs to be done YET for personal safety. The 70th week has not yet begun, as you know...when will this happen? I do not know.

Thanks for the reply, Good4U.

I would not be shocked to learn you are doing nothing now, because acting too prematurely to events I think is inappropriate and would be a distraction or a disappointment if things did not happen soon.

On the other hand, what I am doing is looking around at survival sites and becoming aware of what is available, so that when events do unfold, I have a plan in place. I am looking at ways to save and set aside money specifically for these events, because during those times we will need capital.

The way I figure is that the 1st 3 1/2 years of the covenant are relatively "peaceful" because it gives Israel a chance to rebuild their temple for they think they have gained the "peace and security" that the bible warns us is false. During this time, saints who realize what is going on will have until the midpoint to put whatever they need to survive in place.

I am not sure how closely you follow EU events but there is definitely a possibility that a peace covenant can be confirmed as early as January 2007. Check out Fulfilledprophecy.com to read Herb's site, a fellow pre-wrath believer.

Many think a new covenant will be made but the bible says, "confirm" which means verify. You can only verify something that is already in place. The European Neighborhood Policy is an agreement with 7 countries ("confirm a covenant with many"), two of whom are Israel and Palestine. This agreement extends the economic benefits of being under the umbrella of the EU without actually being a member state.

This ENP agreement also has buried deep within it a provision for peace and safety for all member countries. All seven of these countries have been in the early stages of the agreement since around 2002(3)?. The "Association Agreement" that they all signed is up for "Formal Acceptance" in January 2007.

These agreements are largely financial based, set to last 7 years with a mid term review at 3 years. Member countries cannot be warring with each other, so Israel and PA would have to resolve their differences for them to both be members. It is also interesting to note that member countries have the full protection of the EU. The EU has "Battle Groups" that will be ready to be deployed as early as 2007. They will be able to respond to any crisis anywhere within 5 days of being called. Which country (Israel or PA) would risk being at the receiving end of a Battle Group such as this. Peace will happen. Especially since Javier Solana does not intend to take no for an answer.

Things may go down sooner than we think. Take Care

 

[OttawaUk]

Especially since Javier Solana does not intend to take no for an answer.

Things may go down sooner than we think. Take Care

Javier Solana - people have taken notice of him.

OU

 

[good4u]

The way I figure is that the 1st 3 1/2 years of the covenant are relatively "peaceful" because it gives Israel a chance to rebuild their temple for they think they have gained the "peace and security" that the bible warns us is false. During this time, saints who realize what is going on will have until the midpoint to put whatever they need to survive in place.

You are correct. Faithful churches who understand world events, especially when the covenant is either signed or confirmed as you put it will have approximately 31/2years to prepare the Lord's flock to endure the Great Tribulation. How that will be accomplished, I am unsure, but with God's wisdom, it will be done. The Lord has promised his protection for his faithful bond-servants during this time and the Lord does not break his promises.

I am not sure how closely you follow EU events but there is definitely a possibility that a peace covenant can be confirmed as early as January 2007. Check out Fulfilledprophecy.com to read Herb's site, a fellow pre-wrath believer.

Many think a new covenant will be made but the bible says, "confirm" which means verify. You can only verify something that is already in place. The European Neighborhood Policy is an agreement with 7 countries ("confirm a covenant with many"), two of whom are Israel and Palestine. This agreement extends the economic benefits of being under the umbrella of the EU without actually being a member state.

This ENP agreement also has buried deep within it a provision for peace and safety for all member countries. All seven of these countries have been in the early stages of the agreement since around 2002(3)?. The "Association Agreement" that they all signed is up for "Formal Acceptance" in January 2007.

These agreements are largely financial based, set to last 7 years with a mid term review at 3 years. Member countries cannot be warring with each other, so Israel and PA would have to resolve their differences for them to both be members. It is also interesting to note that member countries have the full protection of the EU. The EU has "Battle Groups" that will be ready to be deployed as early as 2007. They will be able to respond to any crisis anywhere within 5 days of being called. Which country (Israel or PA) would risk being at the receiving end of a Battle Group such as this. Peace will happen. Especially since Javier Solana does not intend to take no for an answer.

Things may go down sooner than we think. Take Care

Interesting. It may indeed be a prelude to what will take place, tho' until I see a new powerful political leader take over three Aryian nations around the Black Sea first or at least similtaneously, I won't be holding my breath just yet. But definitely worth watching to see if some prominent political leader arises from this "agreement". Time will indeed tell...good talking to you.

Continue the good fight for the truth of Scripture!

 

[whitestar]

Then you are a better person than most on this board, if true. If some posters bother you too much, do what I do and include them on your ignore list. It will help tremendously.

Remember, you will NEVER change anyone's mind on this board. The only way I have changed my views from pretribulation rapture heresy to a more accurate biblical view of prewrath is by having a true open mind to understanding how ALL of Scripture fits together to let it speak for itself. I had to discard what I wanted and let God truly speak through his Word.

I was astonished after I realized I had been duped by pretribulation heresy. But I am so glad I was truly able to set aside what I wanted to hear and let God truly speak his difficult truth to me. Now, if I enter the 70th week of Daniel, I will understand the events around me and have the blessing of preparedness thru proper interpretation of his warnings. They are not for nothing and do indeed apply to the church at that dreadful time.

Anyway, not every poster is there and many on this board are in the throws of pretribulation heresy. You will never change them, only God can if they have open minds.

I am certainly not going to say I have never been out of line on here or else where...but I have started realizing how really awful and unChrist like that is! Its certainly not following the teaching of Jesus by bashing someone for having a different view on the end times or anything else in the bible! Jesus never did that...and we are to follow His example.

I know I can't change anyone's mind...but the last post I did on here before this one I simply posted a link to a site that reflects my views and got bashed for that! I posted it ONLY for information purposes...not to debate, not to argue either...just to past some information on and that was it.

A number of days ago I had a vision that I posted on the dreams and vision forum here, if anyone is interested in reading it:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2560450-abyss.html

God bless you all...I pray you keep your focus ON Jesus, because I fear you are losing sight of Him.

WhiteStar

 

[listener]

I do not think you have hit the meaning of the OP. What is needed is not a discussion of prophecty itself, but a recognition of how we treat others who differ from us. We need to realize that, though there are differences in what we think about prophecies, there is no difference in who is our Lord and our God. It is He who guides history for His good pleasure.

 

[DeirdreB]

I do not think you have hit the meaning of the OP. What is needed is not a discussion of prophecty itself, but a recognition of how we treat others who differ from us. We need to realize that, though there are differences in what we think about prophecies, there is no difference in who is our Lord and our God. It is He who guides history for His good pleasure.

I agree with your assesment. I understand the fire way down on the inside of some of us "posters" especially when we feel like we are right. However, if the truth worked for Jesus it can work for us.

It is important that we approach each other with a "smile" so that our writing reflects objectivity not hostility. There are some things I will not tolerate (ie. Benny Hinn, Rick Warren, other heresies) but eschatology seems to be a matter of timing and "ignorance" rather than heresy. To clarify, when I say ignorance it is only because some people hold to certain beleifs (ie rapture debate) because,

1. That's all they were ever taught
2. They have never really examined the scriptures for themselves.

Many of these questions will be answered in God's time and we will all soon understand what we need to do or not do. My prayer is that if things do pan out according to my beleif (pre-wrath) that someone, who came across my posts and discussions will remember me for my wisdom and clarifications (not my rudeness) and search the internet to find out what they need to do.

Being rude just turns people off and your message and "truths" fall on deaf ears.

 

[exodus19]

one thing for certain is wisdom and clarity need not be taken from one's own thoughts, but the Lords, your Father in Spirit.

there is no i think in in God's Word, for it is the final and complete word.

So though anticipation can be frustrating and test the patience of one antother , how do i feel.

well, ignored, regarded as a troll, but does it bother me.

of course and why not should be without feelings. Is God without feelings?

NO He is a jealous God because you have gone awhoring to serve and love the gods of democracy and leberalism, sexual esploits, lust greed and you are serving each others lusts and thoughts of what is love, being lied to as what is '''''''''making love''''''compared to loving each other.

how do your kids perceive love. what the see as something with a shapely body and lots of skin showing.

Don't let evil fool you, he portrays love in humans and says things like " sex sells" then backs it up with images and advertisements all pointing to the magic moment, ""that kiss'', oh that kiss, it's pivotal and it's all there is""" you know the songs and so do your kids that kiss is the pivotal loving embrace of the molten hot statues in golden and ivory beds spopken of by God's Words in the words of Solomon.

and there is some fancy tasty dainty meats there too.


Some day you might hear the Word of God and distinguish it from the sounds of King Evil and his reps


some day.

 

[PastorMikeJ]

Jesus told us to love our enemies, but nowhere is it stated that we have to like them..yes I love my enemies but I don't like them....