Do you know God and just not know that you do?

[LoveForWisdom]

What is God?

Good grief, the $1 M question here. What is God?

He's immaterial and infinite. Right, but how can a human being know anything about God? What makes God God? What exactly are we talking about when we say we "know God?"

Its very simple. For starters, do you know anything at all? One has to say yes to this, or they are ignorant or lying, one or the other.

Proverbs 1:7 - 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools [a] despise wisdom and discipline.

God is in essence Knowledge. Thus we know God through knowledge.

What about truth? Is God the truth?

John 14:6-7 - 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

The Christian God is not only truth, but also purpose...and on top of that..life! Do you live? If you live, then you know God. Do you know a truth claim of any sort? Then you know God. Do you have purpose in your life? Then you know God.

What else is God? God is good - 16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

cited from Matthew 19:15-17

Mark 10:16-18: 17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Is any part of you good? If it is, then you've got God in your life and don't know it.

But just having God in your life is not good enough!

You must commit your life to God, so it must be taken a step forward in yoru acknowledgement of who God is.

Sorry guys, this means no [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] footing around with faith.:

Deutoronomy 7:9 : Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commands.

We are to Love God...the Logos, the wisdom.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was Logos and Logos was with God and Logos was God.

The foundation of all knowledge is Logic. Therefore, with this in mind, we note that God being Logic is the foundation of all of our knowledge as well.

Matthew 10:38-39 - 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Jesus says here, that you are to take up your cross, and follow him!

Matthew 16:24 encourages selflessness from the reader: 24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."

Commitment is a part of the goal to our lives. We all need it in relationships, and the one who actually intervenes within our relationships, God is the cause for all of these relationships, the effect. Commitment to the Good, the Logos, Wisdom, Knowledge, Morality and Justice...God himself!
Mark 8:35 - 35For whoever wants to save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it.

 

[LoveForWisdom]

Our conclusion to this matter is Romans 1:20 - 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

 

[Tenka]

Hi LFW, since this is a discussion forum for people of all beliefs I thought I'd respond to your thread.

Much of what you've said about the nature of God seems to indicate that God is not in actuality a being immaterial or no but an idea or ideal.
You state that "God is in essence Knowledge.", "God is truth and purpose" "God is logic". It makes no sense to ascribe the qualities to a literal being with any kind of humanoid personality but you state yourself that we are to love God so I see that the seeking (of these qualities) is what brings a person closer to the ideal of God.
You say that

The foundation of all knowledge is Logic. Therefore, with this in mind, we note that God being Logic is the foundation of all of our knowledge as well.

The method of science, in perfection for centuries is the most useful tool for the gaining of knowledge we have and itself contains no use for the supernatural nor assumption of it's intervention.

To simplify, God is an ideal to be sought rather than some kind of estranged father figure from mythology.

 

[WingsOfTheNeophyte]

Proverbs 1:7 - 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge

Fear, the beginning of knowledge,

Is this even serious, or an excuse for masochism?

 

[Tormac]

Our conclusion to this matter is Romans 1:20 - 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Hi LoveForWisdom,

I wonder if you could expand on how you would describe the characteristics of your God. I do not think I understand God, as you seem to claim it to be, either that, or your God has properties very different than the orthodox Christian versions that I’m familiar with.

Why does it follow that if I know a truth, or if I live, or if I have a purpose, then I know God?

If taken literally, my take on your op seems to indicate that you believe in some type of subtle pantheistic God, not an anthropomorphized “heavenly father” that humans can have a personal relationship with but are separate from.

But I must admit I do not think I understand your statements. I do not understand how the quote of Romans 1:20 demonstrates your claim. Indeed, from my personal experience I thing that that quote is clearly wrong, as I for one do not see any evidence for the existence in a Christian model of God in what I know about how the universe operates.

Could you elaborate LoveForWisdom on why, for example, if I have a purpose in my life, it follows that I know God? I would say that I have many purposes in my life, but that they are constructs that either society has created, and I have internalized, or ones that I personally have created. While I have a purpose in life, I do not see how that reveals any evidence for the existence of God, or reveals anything meaningful about his nature. But as I have said before, I may just be missing something in your reasoning.

 

[The Nihilist]

LoveForWisdom, for parts of the bible to be included in a serious philosophical discussion, you're going to have to first establish the authority of the bible.


Similarly, one who wishes to bake an apple pie must first start by creating a universe.

 

[LoveForWisdom]

LoveForWisdom, for parts of the bible to be included in a serious philosophical discussion, you're going to have to first establish the authority of the bible.


Similarly, one who wishes to bake an apple pie must first start by creating a universe.

No...I need only point to claims. This is regardless of the Bible's absolute authenticity at this point.

 

[LoveForWisdom]

Hi LoveForWisdom,

I wonder if you could expand on how you would describe the characteristics of your God. I do not think I understand God, as you seem to claim it to be, either that, or your God has properties very different than the orthodox Christian versions that I’m familiar with.

Why does it follow that if I know a truth, or if I live, or if I have a purpose, then I know God?

If taken literally, my take on your op seems to indicate that you believe in some type of subtle pantheistic God, not an anthropomorphized “heavenly father” that humans can have a personal relationship with but are separate from.

But I must admit I do not think I understand your statements. I do not understand how the quote of Romans 1:20 demonstrates your claim. Indeed, from my personal experience I thing that that quote is clearly wrong, as I for one do not see any evidence for the existence in a Christian model of God in what I know about how the universe operates.

Could you elaborate LoveForWisdom on why, for example, if I have a purpose in my life, it follows that I know God? I would say that I have many purposes in my life, but that they are constructs that either society has created, and I have internalized, or ones that I personally have created. While I have a purpose in life, I do not see how that reveals any evidence for the existence of God, or reveals anything meaningful about his nature. But as I have said before, I may just be missing something in your reasoning.

No, not at all. Qualities of God prove God.

 

[LoveForWisdom]

Fear, the beginning of knowledge,

Is this even serious, or an excuse for masochism?

Fear means respect.

 

[LoveForWisdom]

Hi LFW, since this is a discussion forum for people of all beliefs I thought I'd respond to your thread.

Much of what you've said about the nature of God seems to indicate that God is not in actuality a being immaterial or no but an idea or ideal.
You state that "God is in essence Knowledge.", "God is truth and purpose" "God is logic". It makes no sense to ascribe the qualities to a literal being with any kind of humanoid personality but you state yourself that we are to love God so I see that the seeking (of these qualities) is what brings a person closer to the ideal of God.
You say that The method of science, in perfection for centuries is the most useful tool for the gaining of knowledge we have and itself contains no use for the supernatural nor assumption of it's intervention.

To simplify, God is an ideal to be sought rather than some kind of estranged father figure from mythology.

I'm saying that Good is a characteristic representative of God. And so on and so forth. If you know these characteristics, then you know God's personality. If you know something's essence, you know that it exists! it is impossible to affirm something's existence without its essence. And likewise if you know that something's essence, you know that it exists.

 

[Tormac]

No, not at all. Qualities of God prove God.

I guess the thing is LFW, we do not agree on what the qualities of God are yet, and so I’m not convince by that statement.

If I claimed that certain qualities about my cat prove that he exists, I would first have to demonstrate that these qualities exist, and then that my cat possess them. Only after that can the strength of my argument be judged.

You have yet to demonstrate that it is logical to assume that God has any particular qualities or characteristics, and then demonstrate that a possible God possesses these characteristics.

Can you explain what these qualities are that prove that God exists, and then convince me that they exist, and furthure convince me that the possible God in question has them?

 

[Tormac]

Beyond proving that these qualities exist, and that they prove God, you seem to assume in your argument that this God is the ultimate source of these properties. For example, even if God is “purpose” incarnate, why does it follow that he is the only source of “purpose” in everyone’s life. Can’t individuals create their own purpose in life?

If I understand you’re argument it is like saying the Lotus Elise is excitement on wheels, and if you’ve ever been excited then you’ve driven a Lotus Elise. Clearly people have been excited about things without driving a particular sports car, even if it is a really exciting one to drive.

 

[Tenka]

I'm saying that Good is a characteristic representative of God. And so on and so forth. If you know these characteristics, then you know God's personality. If you know something's essence, you know that it exists! it is impossible to affirm something's existence without its essence. And likewise if you know that something's essence, you know that it exists.

Okay, I think I understand, but your conclusion does not follow.
Evil and charisma are qualities of Dracula, but that doesn't mean he exists.

 

[Tynan]

God's invisible qualities....have been clearly seen

Wonderful !

 

[Tynan]

If you know something's essence, you know that it exists! it is impossible to affirm something's existence without its essence. And likewise if you know that something's essence, you know that it exists.

By essence I take it that you mean 'quality' or 'intrinsic nature'

Have I got that right ?

If I have could you answer this question, do you know the essence or intrinsic qualities of Father Christmas ?

If you have not heard of of him let me outline his 'essence.'

He is a kindly old bearded gentleman with a bright red suit, red hat with white trim and black boots, he brings gifts to 'good' children on Christmas morning, he rides a magical sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, he employs two thirds of the worlds elve population (the remaining third work for Toys-R-Us) in the construction of toys - he is generous and giving and he loves children so much he is prepared to make deliveries to anywhere in the world.

If we know his essence can we conclude that he therefore must exist ?