Do you have to be 'certain' before you marry?

GeorgeJ said:

Nothing is "certain" in life or "100% sure".

Marriage is a job....you have to continuously work on it....24/7. It's a two-way street. Give and take....and you BOTH have to want to make it work. You need to go into a marriage realizing that.

For my wife and I, it's been 34 years and counting.

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There are three things that are certain in life. Those three things are taxes,death,and trouble.

Look, man...if you think marriage should be some kind of "business contract" and don't have nothing to do with love ("agape" - committed love), then I wish you the best. Good luck with that. You're gonna be miserable....and it will fail...

Ben Collyer said:

the doubts boil down to this question: Do I really want to marry this particular woman? because my feelings for her are not all that intense...but at the same time, I've learned from countless testimonies from married people that romantic feelings are cultivated within a marriage, as opposed to being a reason
TO get married

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I would agree. Feelings come and go like the wind, so we should not let our decision be based upon them, but rather how we feel will change based upon the decisions that we make. If you spent a year taking care of someone, then an emotional connection would form between you and them. If every day you choose to act in a way that shows your love for your wife regardless of how you feel, then an emotional connection will follow. How you feel when you say your vows is not the height and depth of your marriage, but rather it will continue grow as you continue to love either other.

Ben Collyer said:

I did break up with her, but I recently had a talk with a friend, I told him I was feeling anxiety/jealousy when I thought about her marrying someone else...he said I should pray for her future husband and their marriage, So I did, and my anxiety/jealousy was replaced by joy/peace...

before I did this, I imagined our wedding day with dread...so after praying for her and her future husband...I then reimagined our wedding day in the context of me being a living sacrafice and I felt a tangible sense of excitement ...which was quickly replaced with a thought saying "someone else could love her so much more than me"

Im doing more soul searching after the break up...

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Doubts about whether something is meant to be is different from doubts that stem from red flags. If there is a good reason that has to do with her in regard to why you broke up with her, then that should give you pause. However, God does not have a history of seeking out the most qualified people to accomplish great things in service to Him, so what He wants is not out qualifications, but rather God gives us the ability and what He wants is our availability. So it is not an issue is not whether you are the most qualified person to love her, but whether you are available to commit to doing so.

Ben Collyer said:

I suppose another question is, is it unwise to marry a girl you not in love with? but who otherwise is an attractive and godly woman?

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Love is not the same thing as being in love. Being in love is infatuation, which comes and goes, but you can always choose to love her.

Ben Collyer said:

nope, she is single and is just trying to deepen her relationship with God at the moment whilst also looking out for a husband, she acknowledges she has made marriage an idol up to this point.

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I seriously would recommend seeing a Christian counselor for premarriage counselling if you decide to go in that direction. It it is important for both of you to have realistic expectations of what you are getting into. Marriage is not about what you get out of it, but about what you put into it, about laying down your life for the other, so if she is idolizing what she expects to get out of it, then it will likely lead to problems.

Ben Collyer said:

Yes I love her, but im not in love with her as such, she is in love with me.

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You should not go into marriage expecting the other to change, but you should be expecting that you will change. Arranged marriages in India as just as successful as chosen marriages in the US, so it is about two people living by what they committed to do.

Ben Collyer said:

Ok, in response to the posters who say NO to the marriage, do you think they are in error?

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I do not think that they have given good reasons for saying no because they have focused on how you feel and not on what you are able to commit to regardless of how you feel.

If you don't want to marry her, that implies one of two things:

1) You don't want to be married
2) You think you can do better than her

Is either of those things true for you?

Ben Collyer said:

I did not intent to get married at this juncture in my life...not to say i dont want to be married though

and 2. I think i could potentially find someone who is better suited for me...but I do not like the notion of shopping for a wife based on what she brings to ME...that is worldly garbage...


"The question frames the entire decision-making process in fundamentally self-oriented — if not downright selfish — terms. And it puts the woman on an extended trial to determine whether or not she meets your needs, fits with your personality and satisfies your desires. It places you at the center of the process, in the role of a window-shopper or consumer at a buffet. In this scenario you remain unexamined, unquestioned and unassailable — sovereign in your tastes and preferences and judgments."

- Michael Lawrence - Crestline community church california

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I recommend this video clip:

Ben Collyer said:

So ive been thinking about marriage with someone for a while now but I cant decide for sure because I still doubt if its meant to be.

someone just said to me "if you are having doubts then its not meant to be"

is that too simplistic?

why are there hundreds of articles online regarding "is this the person I should marry" if being sure is the only criterion? (the advice was from an unbeliever)

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If you wait to know if someone is "certain", you will never marry anyone.

Marriage is two sinners, one male, one female, saved by the grace of God alone, by faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone, joining together in the covenant bond of marriage, being sanctified in the grace and mercy of God.

Do you love her with a Christ-like love and want to spend the journey of life with her? Does she likewise love you with a Christ-like love and does she want to spend the journey of life with you? Are you both believers in Jesus Christ?

These are the questions you and her need to examine. I would also recommend some pre-marital Biblical counseling from a trusted Elder or Pastor.

I'd ask a more important question... "Am I avoiding any red flags?". Obviously I am not saying I know this person or what she is like, but from experience of myself (and seeing others), often when we fall in love we tend to not notice all the red flags or warnings at first. We either write them off or just assume they will change in the future. Which is not good.

Maybe ask your friends or family if they notice anything about this person, things that maybe you don't notice. I'd also make sure you both talk ALOT about everything you can think of. Your views on the bible, roles in marriages, how to raise kids, where to go to church, what your hobbies are you both like, how you feel about the toilet seat being up or down. Another set of questions that may be awkward is sex. Like what does the other person think their sex drive is(high or low...etc). Sex is not the end all in marriage but for many it plays a big role.

My wife and I discussed everything we could think of. Wasn't any surprise really when we married. With the exception of some personal habits that we didn't really talk about (picking a nose, going to the bathroom with someone in there already...etc).

Obviously no matter what marriage is not some predictable thing where knowing all the answers before hand will be an assured thing. People can change over time. Especially with changes to their life. Like marriage, kids, job loss...etc. I'd also recommend premarital counseling. It makes both of you think about things you may not have considered. Marriage isn't easy or perfect and learning to accept the others flaws is important.

Most important thing....God. God needs to be in the marriage or things can get rocky.

Mate, you're not STILL on about this, are you?!

We've already established — multiple times in more than one thread — that you don't feel you truly love this girl and the only reason you keep clinging to her (and would even keep her in an unhappy marriage) is because you find it too horrifying and traumatising to think of her with someone else. You've said that straight out. That's not love — and it's not going to turn into love, either. That is self-obsessed, sick-headed jealousy. You do NOT want that in a marriage.

You toss aside every suggestion about looking for things like mutual compatibility and love in a marriage on the grounds that they're "fundamentally self-oriented", when your underlying basis for wanting to marry this woman is that you can't stand the thought of her marrying someone else? "Fundamentally self-oriented"... helloooooo??

And don't keep dismissing the very sensible arguments of people who have actually been married (unlike you and me) on the grounds that they're "not biblical". That's garbage. It's bore obvious code for "I don't like what you're saying so I'm not going to listen to it."

If this question of marriage keeps on and on coming to you, you really might do better to discuss it — privately and in full honesty — with an experienced Christian marriage counsellor, rather than poking about on the internet trying to find enough people who are willing to tell you what you want to hear right now.

I'm sure you'll find your peace about this one day, brother, but I hope to goodness you don't seriously mess up this young woman's life — and your own — in the meantime.

If you "still want her", that doesn't sound much like you ARE genuinely at peace with the prospect of her marrying another. And you're still rather obsessively trying to pursue her even though you professedly don't love her enough to be sure you want to spend your life with her.

Can you not see why quite a number of people now have remarked that this doesn't sound like a good idea???

Good to know you're talking with your pastor and other friends about it.

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Ben Collyer said:

So ive been thinking about marriage with someone for a while now but I cant decide for sure because I still doubt if its meant to be.

someone just said to me "if you are having doubts then its not meant to be"

is that too simplistic?

why are there hundreds of articles online regarding "is this the person I should marry" if being sure is the only criterion? (the advice was from an unbeliever)

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Yes. Be certain. In my case, I knew that the Lord wanted me to marry my wife. We have been married 25 years, and have had our share of trouble. If it were not for the fact that I was certain that the Lord wanted me to marry her, I may have thrown in the towel. Do not make such a commitment without being certain.

Ben Collyer said:

So ive been thinking about marriage with someone for a while now but I cant decide for sure because I still doubt if its meant to be.

someone just said to me "if you are having doubts then its not meant to be"

is that too simplistic?

why are there hundreds of articles online regarding "is this the person I should marry" if being sure is the only criterion? (the advice was from an unbeliever)

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Thing is, Ben, if you're wrong, it's not only you who will suffer. Indeed, it's highly likely, surely, that your spouse will be the chief victim. It seems to me, moreover, that there is a distinct touch of the Magdalen's about many girls. Even in an engagement, many would/do invest their feelings in it very heavily.

I'm not even sure you CAN make sincere, realistic vows, unless you do, at least, feel certain. If neither of you feel sure they're doing the right thing, i.e. have chosen the right parner for life, what prospect for a loving, enduring marriage would that seem to hold out ? It happens of course that often one or both partners don't really understand the need for a one-to-one commitment in a Christian marriage - without which, strictly speaking the marriage is only formally performed, not actually. Grounds for an annulment, as also 'Omnia preparata sunt' - 'All the arrangements have been made', guests invited, presents received, catering and venue booked, etc.

Sorry I'm always the negative one Ben, but when we're dealing with each other's hearts, there's not a lot of room for error that won't cause considerable suffering and misery to the other partner - particularly of the female persuasion. Though it can happen that right near the time, on the eve, say, one partner might get cold feet, yet go through with it, precisely to avoid hurting their partner, but probably only putting of the evil day, and a divorce, at least as painfully concluded. My $002.0.

Ben Collyer said:

Being head over heels "in love" with someone is to make 'feelings' the deciding issue on weather to commit to someone, hence why there is a 50% divorce rate, once that feeling of being in love dissapears, your left with the commitment of agape love. the only difference is that I have already reached that point. I appreciate the truth of what your saying...but I do wonder if we should make feelings the deciding issue

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You made some valid points. But I have been in love before, and I don't necessarily believe it is pure feelings although the feelings can be there. I wasn't talking about "infatuation" which is the feelings part of it because when you are infatuated you are mostly thinking about how a person can make YOU happy which is really a selfish kind of love, if you want to call it that. Love is not all about your "feelings." Love is a deep respect, care, and adoration you have for a person. When I fell in love, which I believe you have to experience it to know what its like or understand it, I did not even find the woman that attractive. Now don't get me wrong I was attracted to her, but I could have done much better. I valued the persons mind, and I cared deeply for the person and wanted them to succeed and be happy even if it wasn't with me. Infatuation on the other hand which is pure feelings, is pure selfishness where your only thinking about yourself and how they can make you happy. Ive had several women become infatuated with me, and I truly believe that some of them would not care if I died if they couldn't have me for theirself. Which is not real genuine love, it is infatuation. Nothing necessarily wrong with infatuation, but the love must be there too. I have been in love before, without the infatuation present, and I must say falling in love is something very hard to explain. I think you would really have to experience it to know what it is like. I don't really know how to put it into words. But when yout truly in love with someone you put them above yourself, the same way Jesus put us above Him for a moment when he died on the cross. Love is not about selfishness, it is about self sacrifice. At least in my case. When I fell in love I would sincerely die for that person. Which is self sacrifice. I did not get the butterlies or those infatuation feelings either. I wish their was some way I could explain what its like to fall in love, but I think the only way to know it is to experience it.

Ben Collyer said:

once that feeling of being in love dissapears, your left with the commitment of agape love. the only difference is that I have already reached that point.

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With respect, I'm not sure that's the correct use of agape. Agape is love that is absolutely universal and unconditional, like the love of God for His children. But although of course it's one element of marital relationships as well, it's not quite the same as the deep, loyal, committed bond that needs to form between two people in a successful marriage. The Greek word for that would more likely be philia or pragma.

The ancient Greeks actually had many words for many different types of love — you can find various explanations of them (not all agreeing on exactly how many there were!) if you look about a bit. I was just reading this article that I found very thought-provoking and helpful: The Ancient Greeks’ 6 Words for Love (And Why Knowing Them Can Change Your Life) It's not specifically a Christian article, but several of those words and concepts are in the Bible and/or have been written about by important Christian thinkers such as C.S. Lewis (who gets a couple of mentions). There's some really quite good advice in there — for finding different kinds of love and fulfilment in all sorts of relationships, not just in a marital partner.