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Do you have a relationship with Jesus?

ViaCrucis

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Jesus would disagree. He said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."

The early Reformers deduced what they called the "three uses of the law" from Scripture. From the Lutheran tradition we have this in our confessions,

"Since the Law of God is useful, 1. not only to the end that external discipline and decency are maintained by it against wild, disobedient men; 2. likewise, that through it men are brought to a knowledge of their sins; 3. but also that, when they have been born anew by the Spirit of God, converted to the Lord, and thus the veil of Moses has been lifted from them, they live and walk in the law" - The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord, Article VI

These three uses thus are:

1. To curb outward evil.
2. To reveal knowledge of our sin.
3. To establish our conduct as believes in Jesus.

However, while the third use does establish the law as the means of conduct for the Christian, this does not mean that we show ourselves righteous, holy, or spiritual by the law. And this because of the second use, that the law shows forth our sin.

Indeed, our Lord has said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments". So from this what do we receive? That only the obedient have faith in Christ, and thus by our works we can determine if we are just or unjust? Most certainly not.

However, look at this instead from the second use of the law: If we love Christ we will obey Him, and yet we do not obey Him. For we are, as St. Paul says in Romans 7, caught between these two things: The good that we want to do which we fail to do, and the evil that we do not want to do but do anyway.

And so Christ's word here condemns us, for the Law condemns us in our sin. And so by our failure to live obedient lives we show our own sinfulness, we have not loved the Lord our God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our strength, and with all our mind. We have not loved our neighbor as ourselves.

The word here was not given to condemn, but the Law on account of sin produces condemnation,

"Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin." - Romans 7:13-14

So we are again reminded of our inability to be righteous by the commandment of God. The only righteousness which we have, as Christians, is the alien righteousness of Jesus Christ, imputed to us by grace through faith; this is the righteousness which is of faith. Thus,

"[W]e know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified." - Galatians 2:16

Indeed, we have read,

"Now the law came in to increase the trespass," - Romans 5:20a

The Law does not produce righteousness in sinners, but rather increases sin. So where the commandment was given for life, it results in condemnation because of sin. So that the one who seeks to be righteous by obedience to God's command condemns himself, for by his sin he fails to do what he ought to do, and he does what he ought not do.

However, "but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:20b-21

Not for the excuse for sin, but because where we are sinful, God is gracious. For Christ came to save sinners, and we must declare we are the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15)

As our Lord Jesus has told us, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:31-32)

And the Apostle having said, "God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

So let us reckon ourselves sinners, confessing our sin freely in faith that we are forgiven all our sins, just as it is written,

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." - 1 John 1:8-10

And as forgiven sinners, we should therefore seek to walk in obedience to God's command, not by thinking we are holy or righteous by our efforts; but instead out of reverence to Christ and for love of our neighbor.

God doesn't need our good works, but our neighbor does.

By saying that we can determine our place before God through our efforts is to only bring condemnation, for the law brings condemnation on account of sin.

If we truly understand what God commands of us, then we must truly confess that we are sinners. The Law is preached to repentance and the mortification of our flesh, not to eternal life; it is the Gospel that is everlasting life and peace with God for sinners.

Never confuse these, the Law is not the Gospel, and the Gospel is not the Law.

For the Law is preached and sinners tremble, and there is no forgiveness, no pardon, no peace in it.

But the Gospel is preached and sinners receive forgiveness of sins in Christ who loves them and gave His life for them, that is, for you and me. And this is peace and joy and everlasting life and gladness from God as the loving and good Abba Father who meets us in His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord. "For every good and perfect gift is from above, from the Father of lights" (James 1:17)

It is not up to us to find out if we are saved by our conduct, but rather to look to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. He saves you, trust in Him. He is Faithful.

Look to Jesus, and no where else.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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PJ76

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As our Lord Jesus has told us, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:31-32)

Like I said, to turn from sin requires action. Again, repentance is a free will choice.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Again, grace must be openly received and embraced. Jesus will not come in uninvited, the individual must first open the door, this requires action. I like said, this a free will choice.

I think you might be referring to the Apocalypse in which Jesus says to church in Laodicea, "I stand at the door and knock". Note that Jesus says this to the church, to the already-believing.

It's not up to unbelieving sinners to invite Jesus in, indeed such a thing is simply impossible. The Lord comes to us freely, proactively. It's why He commanded that His Church go out into the world to preach the Gospel.

Christ comes through to the world through His word, preached by His Church,

"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!' But they have not all received the gospel. For Isaiah says, 'Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?' So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." - Romans 10:14-17

Hence why He also commissioned His Church to "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit." (Matthew 28:19)

Christ has willed to come to the unbelieving, sinful world through Word and Sacrament.

It's not up to us, but rather Him. He comes to us. Indeed, He has said, "You did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Like I said, to turn from sin requires action. Again, repentance is a free will choice.

Repentance is the way of life for those who believe in Christ. Not a one time act. But to drown ourselves daily in repentance.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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PJ76

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I think you might be referring to the Apocalypse in which Jesus says to church in Laodicea, "I stand at the door and knock". Note that Jesus says this to the church, to the already-believing.

No the church in Laodicea were not saved since Jesus told the entire church to repent, since they were lukeworm. The church was filled with unrepentant lost souls. Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.
 
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aiki

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Revelation 3:20
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open and the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.


Joshua 24:15
15 ...choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve...
 
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PJ76

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Repentance is the way of life for those who believe in Christ. Not a one time act. But to drown ourselves daily in repentance.

No repentance does not mean "the way of life". Repent in Greek means a change of heart. Biblical repentance is to turn from sin, it is a change in lifestyle.
 
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ViaCrucis

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No the church in Laodicea were not saved since Jesus told the entire church to repent, since they were neither hot or cold. The church was filled with unrepentant lost souls. Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

They wouldn't be a church unless they were believing Christians.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Nowhere in scripture was repent addressed to born again souls. The word repent was always addressed to lost souls.

"For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret it—though I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while. As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.

For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
" - 2 Corinthians 7:8-10

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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No repentance does mean a "way of life". Repent in Greek literally means a change of heart. Biblical repentance is a change of heart from living in sin to living in the light.

In Greek it literally means a change of mind, a metanoia, a change in one's thinking. But repentance subsumes in itself a grief and sorrow over sin, godly contrition.

As sinners we need to drown ourselves regularly in repentance, that is part of the cross the followers of Jesus must carry.

That is why St. John says that if we confess our sins God is faithful to forgive us our sins.

Godly sorrow and contrition is part of the Christian way of life. Further the Apostle says, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind," (Romans 12:2), the renewal of our mind, the transformation we are presently undergoing is a process. Our salvation is an ongoing process.

We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. Our present salvation is God's continued work in our lives, it is the regular, constant struggle of discipleship to Jesus of a life simul iustus et peccator, both saint and sinner.

That is why it is so critical to be preaching the Gospel, that our hearing the Gospel, of being called to Jesus, of clinging to Jesus, cleaving to Jesus, trusting in Jesus is where our life must be as sinners. For it is in Christ and Christ alone that we are and are being saved. With our gaze set forward in the hope of the resurrection of the body, when Christ returns in glory, and God renews and restores all things. World without end.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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PJ76

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They wouldn't be a church unless they were believing Christians

Once again. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. Jesus said to Laodicia, “Repent for you are lukewarm.” Unfortunately this means they were not saved. Read in context.
 
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PJ76

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In Greek it literally means a change of mind, a metanoia, a change in one's thinking. But repentance subsumes in itself a grief and sorrow over sin, godly contrition

No, repentance means a change of heart from living in sin. It means to turn from sin.
 
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PJ76

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Yes God repented too, because repent literally means a change of heart. But repent used in context, can also mean to turn from sin. Yes Greek words carry positive or even negative connotations depending on how it is used in context. Yes it’s all about context.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Once again. Going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. Jesus said to Laodicia, “Repent for you are lukewarm.” Unfortunately this means they were not saved. Read in context.

You are anachronistically reading back your own ideas upon the situation of the first century and it doesn't work that way. There wasn't some church building with a sign that said "Church of Laodicea" on the front. This was the Christian community in the city of Laodicea, that's what "church" means here. It is a reference to the community of believers living in the city of Laodicea. That's the context.

Just because you think them being lukewarm means they weren't saved doesn't make it so. The point of what Jesus is saying to His people in Laodicea is to call them to return to faithfulness to Him. That is the context, that is the context of all the letters contained in the Apocalypse: To instruct these communities of Christians to remain firm in their confession and faith in Jesus in the midst of Roman oppression and persecution.

I can't help but notice that you rather freely add, ignore, and take away from Scripture whenever Scripture doesn't agree with your theological system. You want to promote a modernistic theology of Decisionism, and when Scripture doesn't agree with you, you simply ignore it or change the meaning to suit your purposes.

In the OP you said you were a pastor, where did you receive your training and ordination from? What seminary did you attend?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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PJ76

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Viacrucis. Unfortunately I can no longer have a dialogue with you since you have decided to get personal. No need for personal attacks. You and I have a fundamental difference. Yes we do need a personal relationship with Jesus. Yes I am an ordained minister, but no I do not disclose my personal information on forums. Take care.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Viacrucis. Unfortunately I can no longer have a dialogue with you since you have decided to get personal. No need for personal attacks. You and I have a fundamental difference. Yes we do need a personal relationship with Jesus. Yes I am an ordained minister, but no I do not disclose my personal information on forums. Take care.

You're right, what I said was too personal and for that I apologize. While not intended to be a personal attack, it was. And for that I am sorry.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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PJ76

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"Jesus is my boyfriend" theology is unbiblical.

Having a relationship with Jesus is not a "Jesus is my boyfriend" theology. Unfortunately just saying "Lord, Lord", without making Jesus the actual Master over of your life is useless and meaningless. The type of relationship I am referring to is a master and servant relationship. The word Lord in Greek means master.
 
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