Do You Have a Beard?

[Ioan cel Nou]

I put other. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. My wife really hates beards so she tries to discourage me. I really hate shaving so I go the other way when I can. I don't actually understand the attitude that all Orthodox men ought to be bearded. Where on earth does that come from? In Romania I was once asked where my church was because people thought I might be a priest based solely on the beard I had. It is incredibly unusual to see Romanian laymen with beards as it's something that is considered almost the preserve of the clergy. I don't personally agree with that attitude as I think it's going too far but I see the 'all men should have beards' attitude as similarly extreme. I am not, I should note, in favour of having clean-shaven priests.

James

 

[Kolya]

When I try to grow a beard I only get an 'Apache' - a patch here and a patch there. It's my genes I guess.
Kolya

 

[Nickolai]

I put other. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. My wife really hates beards so she tries to discourage me. I really hate shaving so I go the other way when I can. I don't actually understand the attitude that all Orthodox men ought to be bearded. Where on earth does that come from? In Romania I was once asked where my church was because people thought I might be a priest based solely on the beard I had. It is incredibly unusual to see Romanian laymen with beards as it's something that is considered almost the preserve of the clergy. I don't personally agree with that attitude as I think it's going too far but I see the 'all men should have beards' attitude as similarly extreme. I am not, I should note, in favour of having clean-shaven priests.

James

According to most people (monks and clergy) I've talked to about the subject, as a rule, only the clergy are expected to have them. and depending on who you talk to, laymen either shouldn't have them at all (doesn't make sense to me), or there is no rule for laymen. Which I quess means it would be dependant on the culture around you.

This "rule" however, is not the only answer I was given. I've also been told that beards and long hair on men are outdated and we shouldn't wear them.

Most of the canons I've found in regard to clergy appearance are specifically talking about clergy wearing cassock and/or riassa, and usually the "beards for everyone" croud uses those canons to prove their points.

Wow, it's early. I hope this post makes sense

In Christ,
Reader Nikolai

 

[Ioan cel Nou]

According to most people (monks and clergy) I've talked to about the subject, as a rule, only the clergy are expected to have them. and depending on who you talk to, laymen either shouldn't have them at all (doesn't make sense to me), or there is no rule for laymen. Which I quess means it would be dependant on the culture around you.

This "rule" however, is not the only answer I was given. I've also been told that beards and long hair on men are outdated and we shouldn't wear them.

Most of the canons I've found in regard to clergy appearance are specifically talking about clergy wearing cassock and/or riassa, and usually the "beards for everyone" croud uses those canons to prove their points.

Wow, it's early. I hope this post makes sense

In Christ,
Reader Nikolai

It's not early for me (lunch time) and yes the post makes sense. It sounds similar to what I've always heard. Clergy and monks should be bearded. In Romania, I've heard that laymen shouldn't be bearded (and hardly any are) and in England I've heard that there is no rule. It's only been on the internet that I've ever come across the argument that all men should be bearded and, frankly, I've never understood it. Is it, perhaps, a cultural thing in some loca churches but not others?

Anyway, if I could have a beard without it causing marital strife I would, but that's purely down to my dislike of shaving, not my beliefs as an Orthodox Christian. If only beards were soft and silky rather than more like an organic wire wool (or is that just mine?) I'd never have to shave again.

James

 

[choirfiend]

Since there are many cultures/ethnicities of people in the world who are basically incapable of producing a beard, I have to suspect that it is a local, cultural small-t tradition that may or may not have purpose and usefulness depending on the situation and timeframe.

 

[choirfiend]

If only beards were soft and silky rather than more like an organic wire wool (or is that just mine?) I'd never have to shave again.

Do you condition? My priest does.

 

[DonVA]

Do you condition? My priest does.

Of the two Orthodox priests I've worshipped with in my life, neither was bearded.

 

[Tsarina]

I put other. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. My wife really hates beards so she tries to discourage me. I really hate shaving so I go the other way when I can. I don't actually understand the attitude that all Orthodox men ought to be bearded. Where on earth does that come from? In Romania I was once asked where my church was because people thought I might be a priest based solely on the beard I had. It is incredibly unusual to see Romanian laymen with beards as it's something that is considered almost the preserve of the clergy. I don't personally agree with that attitude as I think it's going too far but I see the 'all men should have beards' attitude as similarly extreme. I am not, I should note, in favour of having clean-shaven priests.

James

The reader at Church wants to grow out his beard but his wife doesn't like it and won't let him. A lot of women don't like beard's on guys, i don't know why.. because i love them.

Orthodox men try to grow out beards because Christ himself had a beard. It's good if you have one, it is encouraged in Orthodoxy, but it's not wrong not to have one. What's the word i'm looking for?..... Orthodox Piety.

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

There are some random quotes on beards.

• St Clement of Alexandria
  • "The hair of the chin showed him to be a man." St Clement of Alexandria (c.195, E), 2.271
  • "How womanly it is for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, and to arrange his hair at the mirror, shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them!…For God wished women to be smooth and to rejoice in their locks alone growing spontaneously, as a horse in his mane. But He adorned man like the lions, with a beard, and endowed him as an attribute of manhood, with a hairy chest--a sign of strength and rule." St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.275
  • "This, then, is the mark of the man, the beard. By this, he is seen to be a man. It is older than Eve. It is the token of the superior nature….It is therefore unholy to desecrate the symbol of manhood, hairiness.” St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.276
  • "It is not lawful to pluck out the beard, man’s natural and noble adornment." St. Clement of Alexandria, 2.277

• St Cyprian
  • "In their manners, there was no discipline. In men, their beards were defaced." St Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.438
  • "The beard must not be plucked. 'You will not deface the figure of your beard'." [Lev 19:27] St. Cyprian, 5.553
• Lactantius
  • "The nature of the beard contributes in an incredible degree to distinguish the maturity of bodies, or to distinguish the sex, or to contribute to the beauty of manliness and strength." Lactantius (c. 304-314, W), 7.288

• Apostolic Constitutions
  • "Men may not destroy the hair of their beards and unnaturally change the form of a man. For the Law says, “You will not deface your beards.” For God the Creator has made this decent for women, but has determined that it is unsuitable for men." Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c.390, E) 7.392. (1)

[edit]
Let the head of men be clipped, unless they have curly hair. But let the chin have the hair. ... Cutting is to be used, not for the sake of elegance, but on account of the necessity of the case ... so that it may not grow so long as to come down and interfere with the eyes. - St. Clement of Alexandria (circa 195 AD), 2.286.

Post-Apostolic times also confirmed this. The long-standing tradition of obedience was still going strong. As we can see from the following quotes, the post-Apostolic Fathers were completely in harmony with their ancestors: "The beard must not be plucked. "You shall not deface the figure of your beard." St. Cyprian of Carthage AD 250

 

[KATHXOYMENOC]

After using the Gillette M3 Power razor, I don't think I'll ever go back to having a beard. It's too much fun to shave, esp. with shaving soap and a brush. I can't decide if I prefer the Fusion Power to the M3 Power, however.

 

[choirfiend]

• • It is the token of the superior nature…

Yet I dont think we Orthodox would agree that men have a superior nature, would we? Even if a Church father wrote it.


Again, a time and place for everything....If he was Asian and lived there all his life, I doubt he would be saying the same things, seeing as how asian men do not grow much body hair at all. Are they lesser men? Do they lack some bestowed gift of God in their non-hairiness? I think not.

 

[choirfiend]

PS. As I think any mediterranean woman could tell you, we're not that smooth....If we all let things happen as "God created us" then I think you would have a lot of guys complaining about the amount of body hair women naturally grow...Who else loves armpit hair and a mustache on their woman? We all know how men adore leg hair, too...

 

[Nickolai]

[/LIST][/LIST]Again, a time and place for everything....If he was Asian and lived there all his life, I doubt he would be saying the same things, seeing as how asian men do not grow much body hair at all. Are they lesser men? Do they lack some bestowed gift of God in their non-hairiness? I think not.

I'm sorry to say that this is not much of an argument when you look at the amount of Japanese Clergy with facial hair. Even if all they can gorw is a mustache.

 

[choirfiend]

It is a valid point, especially when saying that bushy hairiness is somehow related to being more manly....and how about the comment that it is related to a superior nature?

Hair is hair. Whether you cut it after it comes out of your skin matters only to Sampson, and he was told specifically what to do with it.

 

[Mary of Bethany]

Most of the non-clergy males in my parish do not have beards, or even goatees.

It should have no bearing on a man's "Orthodox-ness".

Mary

 

[The Prokeimenon!]

I find that some of the guys I know that are converts with ZZ Top beards lean towards the "More Orthodox than thou" side. They complain because nothing is ever Orthodox enough for them.

That being said- I'm working on my own ZZ Top beard, and I'm more Orthodox than all of you

Rdr Moses

 

[Eusebios]

OK.. from when I was 16...... BTW... where's that pic OF YOU??

You look like Bill Walton in that one dude!
The "jerry Garcia" shot of me is lost in the old Photo thread, wherever you guys stuck that one at.
In Xp,
Eusebios

 

[Annabel Lee]

No

 

[EricTheRed]

in the process

 

[DonVA]

I find that some of the guys I know that are converts with ZZ Top beards lean towards the "More Orthodox than thou" side. They complain because nothing is ever Orthodox enough for them.

That being said- I'm working on my own ZZ Top beard, and I'm more Orthodox than all of you

Rdr Moses

So....this makes you the "Orthodoxiest" of us all?