Do you ever ...

[Resha Caner]

What thought experiments do people here undergo?

For example, one I have done many times is to take a position I believe in and do my best to find its faults - to convince myself it is false. Or, on the flip side, I will take something I don't agree with and try to convince myself it is true.

It's something I've done since I was a small child. For example, around the age of 10 or so I would sit and meditate, trying to convince myself I didn't exist. Maybe all it means is that I have issues, but it produces some interesting results.

 

[bhsmte]

What thought experiments do people here undergo?

For example, one I have done many times is to take a position I believe in and do my best to find its faults - to convince myself it is false. Or, on the flip side, I will take something I don't agree with and try to convince myself it is true.

It's something I've done since I was a small child. For example, around the age of 10 or so I would sit and meditate, trying to convince myself I didn't exist. Maybe all it means is that I have issues, but it produces some interesting results.

I believe it is absolutely healthy to do what you state, which is basically question yourself on your personal beliefs. IMO, if a person goes through life never changing their mind on anything substantial, they likely never allowed themselves the ability to truly question themselves, which to me, is what stimulates learning and understanding.

IMO, whether someone has the ability to do what you state, lies in one's own individual psychology and this is as unique as finger prints.

 

[juvenissun]

What thought experiments do people here undergo?

For example, one I have done many times is to take a position I believe in and do my best to find its faults - to convince myself it is false. Or, on the flip side, I will take something I don't agree with and try to convince myself it is true.

It's something I've done since I was a small child. For example, around the age of 10 or so I would sit and meditate, trying to convince myself I didn't exist. Maybe all it means is that I have issues, but it produces some interesting results.

Are some of the Old Testament commandments really outdated? Of course they are not. But why not?

 

[Paradoxum]

I've trying to convince myself other opposite points of view before, but it isn't a common thing for me.

A common one for me would be considering if intelligent aliens would have the 'right to life' too. There are probably others too, but that comes to mind just now.

 

[quatona]

For example, around the age of 10 or so I would sit and meditate, trying to convince myself I didn't exist. Maybe all it means is that I have issues, but it produces some interesting results.

So out of curiosity: what results did this experiment produce?

 

[Resha Caner]

So out of curiosity: what results did this experiment produce?

It's funny how these conversations go. I'm always hoping other people will talk about their experiences, not ask questions about mine ... I guess a few people did give brief answers.

Anyway, per this specific example, I momentarily succeeded. It wasn't a lasting change in this particular case, but I learned a few things:
1. You can convince yourself of almost anything if you try hard enough.
2. Big changes are terrifying - I was sweating and shaking in those moments.
3. I think I have a better perspective on what things I can change easily and what things are deeply ingrained.

Further, it later connected with the interactions I had with people of differing views when I asked myself why they held the views they did.

 

[Resha Caner]

A common one for me would be considering if intelligent aliens would have the 'right to life' too. There are probably others too, but that comes to mind just now.

The military might they bring to the conversation may decide the issue for you.

 

[Resha Caner]

Are some of the Old Testament commandments really outdated? Of course they are not. But why not?

Yeah ... I don't know what to do with this one.

I've never heard an argument for morality I found convincing, but I'll be perfectly honest that I haven't really engaged on that issue. I have my standard, but it will never be convincing to unbelievers, and I'm honestly not really that interested in listening to the standards unbelievers try to put in place.

 

[Paradoxum]

The military might they bring to the conversation may decide the issue for you.

I'm not sure that sentence is proper English, but I think I know what you mean.

The military can't decide for me any more than they can by deciding to murder a bunch of people of another race. If they do that they don't define the right to life... they violate it.

 

[quatona]

It's funny how these conversations go. I'm always hoping other people will talk about their experiences, not ask questions about mine ... I guess a few people did give brief answers.

Well, as for me personally, I never "tried hard to convince" myself that I didn´t exist - the conviction that I don´t exist came more like naturally, and it lasted.

Anyway, per this specific example, I momentarily succeeded. It wasn't a lasting change in this particular case, but I learned a few things:
1. You can convince yourself of almost anything if you try hard enough.

I´m not sure how one would conclude from one particular successful thought-experiment that one can convince oneself of almost anything.

2. Big changes are terrifying - I was sweating and shaking in those moments.

Yes, they can be - particularly when we have no motive or incentive to undergo such big changes.

3. I think I have a better perspective on what things I can change easily and what things are deeply ingrained.

Well, that´s a good thing to learn.

 

[Ana the Ist]

What thought experiments do people here undergo?

For example, one I have done many times is to take a position I believe in and do my best to find its faults - to convince myself it is false. Or, on the flip side, I will take something I don't agree with and try to convince myself it is true.

It's something I've done since I was a small child. For example, around the age of 10 or so I would sit and meditate, trying to convince myself I didn't exist. Maybe all it means is that I have issues, but it produces some interesting results.

I don't think I would refer to them as thought experiments...but here goes nothing...

I have conversations in my head with people I know that never play out in real life (I avoid real conversations)...
I analyze other people's behaviors/attitudes/expressions to a point where I've generally convinced myself I know more about why they do what they do than they do...
I play out various scenarios in my head, some very realistic/likely, some very unrealistic/unlikely....and I try to figure out how I would react in these situations.

 

[Resha Caner]

I'm not sure that sentence is proper English, but I think I know what you mean.

What is wrong with it? Upon a second reading, "might" may have been a bit clumsy, but I believe it's still proper. IOW, the sentence could have been: The military power they bring to the conversation may decide the issue for you.

The military can't decide for me any more than they can by deciding to murder a bunch of people of another race. If they do that they don't define the right to life... they violate it.

You miss the point. I was poking at the underlying question: Does your opinion matter if it is not actionable?

 

[Resha Caner]

Well, as for me personally, I never "tried hard to convince" myself that I didn´t exist ...

I wasn't trying to restrict you to that instance. It was just an example. I was asking what thought experiments you have tried.

 

[Resha Caner]

I have conversations in my head with people I know that never play out in real life (I avoid real conversations)...

I do that as well, except the part about avoiding real conversations. That part is sad.

I analyze other people's behaviors/attitudes/expressions to a point where I've generally convinced myself I know more about why they do what they do than they do...

I've also done this, though as time goes on I've admitted to myself I don't know as much about what people think as I used to claim. So, I ask leading questions to test whether my suppositions are true ... such as this thread ... so, what is it that you know about me that I don't know for myself?

 

[quatona]

I wasn't trying to restrict you to that instance. It was just an example.

...and the reason for me to answer was not that I felt you wanted to restrict me to that instance.
The reason was that I found it interesting that something that is a "thought experiment" to one person, is merely a thought to another.

I was asking what thought experiments you have tried.

Well, I´m the kind of person who keeps being told "You think too much". Yet, I don´t recall perceiving any of the paths I explore thinking-wise as a "thought experiment". I guess, I always feel some inclination towards those paths I go, beyond going them for experiment´s sake. Thus, I guess, I feel a bit helpless when asked to present thoughts of mine as "thought experiments" - I just don´t seem to get that distinction.
Then again, a lot of considerations require me to think hypothetically; a good example would be the discussion of god concepts, which requires me to experiment with the thought "what if this God existed"?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I do that as well, except the part about avoiding real conversations. That part is sad.



I've also done this, though as time goes on I've admitted to myself I don't know as much about what people think as I used to claim. So, I ask leading questions to test whether my suppositions are true ... such as this thread ... so, what is it that you know about me that I don't know for myself?

Is it sad?

Since you asked, I'll answer, but in all fairness I haven't followed any of your threads and only vaguely have an impression of you from your posts. That said, what follows is mostly based on this thread alone....

You aren't nearly as interested in other people's thoughts or ideas as you pretend to be. Just a few posts into this thread and you're lamenting how the conversation went back to you when you so really wanted to hear from others. Yet, one page later you've jumped at the first opportunity to hear about yourself. That is what you're here for anyway, to expound your ideas and feel self-impressed with the way you've stated them.

I don't find my lack of conversation sad at all. It's boring to me to have to sit and pretend I'm interested in someone else's life, daily doings, trivialities, etc., when quite frankly I don't care at all. So rarely do I ever find anyone worth talking to it makes those few conversations all the more enjoyable because I've avoided the banality of many many others.

 

[Resha Caner]

...and the reason for me to answer was not that I felt you wanted to restrict me to that instance.
The reason was that I found it interesting that something that is a "thought experiment" to one person, is merely a thought to another.

OK. I understand now.

Well, I´m the kind of person who keeps being told "You think too much". Yet, I don´t recall perceiving any of the paths I explore thinking-wise as a "thought experiment". I guess, I always feel some inclination towards those paths I go, beyond going them for experiment´s sake. Thus, I guess, I feel a bit helpless when asked to present thoughts of mine as "thought experiments" - I just don´t seem to get that distinction.
Then again, a lot of considerations require me to think hypothetically; a good example would be the discussion of god concepts, which requires me to experiment with the thought "what if this God existed"?

I guess I would consider thinking hypothetically as a kind of thought experiment. So, do you find "what if this god existed" to be a difficult thing to fathom? For myself, I have fun playing with new ideas, but once I've put an idea aside I think I'm very poor at discussing it.

 

[Resha Caner]

Since you asked, I'll answer, but in all fairness I haven't followed any of your threads and only vaguely have an impression of you from your posts. That said, what follows is mostly based on this thread alone....

You aren't nearly as interested in other people's thoughts or ideas as you pretend to be. Just a few posts into this thread and you're lamenting how the conversation went back to you when you so really wanted to hear from others. Yet, one page later you've jumped at the first opportunity to hear about yourself. That is what you're here for anyway, to expound your ideas and feel self-impressed with the way you've stated them.

I thought I was just answering quatona's question, but OK. Is it this one instance that leads you to this conclusion, or others as well? You seem to have formed your conclusion quickly if this is the first you've read of me.

I don't find my lack of conversation sad at all. It's boring to me to have to sit and pretend I'm interested in someone else's life, daily doings, trivialities, etc., when quite frankly I don't care at all. So rarely do I ever find anyone worth talking to it makes those few conversations all the more enjoyable because I've avoided the banality of many many others.

Well, then I guess our views differ. I think it is sad to so easily dismiss someone else's life as a triviality ... I'm sure you don't mean they have no value as a person, but even so.

These scenarios you play out in your head - how often do they unfold as you expect? Is this one going as you expected? Or is that you play out a multitude of possibilities and I'm fitting one of your possibilities?

 

[Ana the Ist]

I thought I was just answering quatona's question, but OK. Is it this one instance that leads you to this conclusion, or others as well? You seem to have formed your conclusion quickly if this is the first you've read of me.



Well, then I guess our views differ. I think it is sad to so easily dismiss someone else's life as a triviality ... I'm sure you don't mean they have no value as a person, but even so.

These scenarios you play out in your head - how often do they unfold as you expect? Is this one going as you expected? Or is that you play out a multitude of possibilities and I'm fitting one of your possibilities?

There was a vague impression of you before...but you asked for a quick conclusion didn't you? I used this thread to build one on the other.

Don't you dismiss other's lives as trivial (to you at least)? Do you ask that girl at the register how her day is? Maybe you ask that bum on the corner how he got there? How.well do you know your neighbors? I don't even know the names of mine. Do you worry/cry when you see starving children on the tv? When that co-worker of.yours starts on about his/her weekend...how quickly are you looking for a way out of that conversation?

The ones I can play out usually go quite well...such is careful planning and all.

As for this one, it has gone close. Your general lack of interest in the thoughts/opinions of others has allowed you to deflect my assessment of you without much insult. Had I been wrong and you actually cared...your reply might've been less cordial.

 

[quatona]

OK. I understand now.



I guess I would consider thinking hypothetically as a kind of thought experiment.

Ok.

So, do you find "what if this god existed" to be a difficult thing to fathom?

That depends
a. on the particular god and
b. on how deeply I explore this god concept (usually it gets harder the more details of the theology behind it I take into account.

For myself, I have fun playing with new ideas, but once I've put an idea aside I think I'm very poor at discussing it.

As for me, I suspect, I lose interest in discussing it, in the first place.