Do You Eat Pork?

[Reader Nilus]

I eat pork and love it.
Jeff the Finn

 

[caley]

i don't eat pork, but i don't think it's a sin. i just don't like pork.

 

[Symes]

God wants us to follow the health laws. They are there for us and not against us. If we choose to go against them then God cannot bless us with good health.

The unclean foods are all there for us to see, such as swines flesh, fish with no scales etc.

 

[Icystwolf]

Ok people, I'm chinese from Hong Kong, and if you didn't realise we are PORK Experts.

So let me get this straight, I've been a Christian all my life, pork has not affected my beliefs whatsoever. Remember when Jesus said it's not what goes into the body, but what comes out of the heart.

And to be perfectly honest with you Chinese people are the most un-Halal and un-kocher people in the world. Which is why islam didn't establish that well in HK...because the denial of pork is our livelyhood, our culture, and our delicious pride.
Heres a list of what pork products we eat;
* Piglets
* Pig meat
* Pig Stomach
* Pig Blood Jelly

Now pig blood jelly most important product, is weird tasting, but it's very healthy for a sick person. For people living in the snow regions of China, the russians would drink Vodka, whilst chinese people would eat pork blood jelly to keep them warm, oh and rice wine of course...lol...

Overall, Christianity does allow us to eat pork, else you would be accusing every Christian in HK, whether born in HK or immigrated to HK, who love eating pork, even oversea's personel love the pork we cook in HK...as continually sinning.

Dare you come any closer to snatch away my PORK.....

Oink...lol....

 

[Foundthelight]

We need to remember that the Apostles in Jerusalem did not put the burden of law on the gentiles, asking them to abstain only as quoted below.

AC 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
AC 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (NASB)

Surely if Peter or Paul had been told by the Holy Spirit otherwise they would have given a different command to the gentiles. Remember that pork was common in the diet of the gentiles. (Remember the demon Christ sent into the herd of domesticated swine?) Paul later amplified the rule concerning meat sacrificed to idols. Basically saying don't ask and if told don't eat.

I equate modern sayers that pork is evil with those in the first century that said that circumcision was required. You are putting an unfair burden on those that are not under law and are thus in sin yourselves. Remember Paul's coment that he wished the circumcision crowd would go all the way and emasculate themselves?

 

[ydouxist]

So let me get this straight, I've been a Christian all my life, pork has not affected my beliefs whatsoever. Remember when Jesus said it's not what goes into the body, but what comes out of the heart.

That makes a man "unclean" It can make you ill however.

I too disregarded dietary laws once. But in acts why does it say


AC 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (NASB)

"spiritual" things sacrificed to idols
"natural" blood and from things strangled
"physical" fornication

 

[seangoh]

So let me get this straight, I've been a Christian all my life, pork has not affected my beliefs whatsoever. Remember when Jesus said it's not what goes into the body, but what comes out of the heart.

I think i've dealt with that text earlier on. Please read my earlier post http://www.christianforums.com/t77523&page=2

..because the denial of pork is our livelyhood, our culture, and our delicious pride.

But you still have the power of choice to "go against the flow".
"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. " Matt 7:14

Heres a list of what pork products we eat;
* Piglets
* Pig meat
* Pig Stomach
* Pig Blood Jelly

It's amazing how humans can come up with different ways to concoct things. I'm not surprised.

Now pig blood jelly most important product, is weird tasting, but it's very healthy for a sick person. For people living in the snow regions of China, the russians would drink Vodka, whilst chinese people would eat pork blood jelly to keep them warm, oh and rice wine of course...lol...

I'm not sure about this health benefit but i know that a vegetarian diet beats any kind of diet anytime. BTW, i'm not a vegetarian but i follow the health guidelines.

Overall, Christianity does allow us to eat pork, else you would be accusing every Christian in HK, whether born in HK or immigrated to HK, who love eating pork, even oversea's personel love the pork we cook in HK...as continually sinning.

God is fair. If we don't know what we're doing which is wrong, do you think He will mete out the same punishment? No way! If pork isn't supposed to be eaten but half the world eats it without knowing that they can't, there's still fairness in the eyes of God. Because those people don't know it. In the other perspective, if we know a truth, and we knowingly go against that, then it's a different story and the judgement will be as accordingly.

 

[oworm]

God says that when a person sins, he gets a headache.

Where does God say that?

 

[Foundthelight]

I, myself, abstain from such things as pig blood jelly and blood sausage. (I have never come across meat sacrificed to idols or strangled meat.) I believe the direction in Acts 15 is binding on all gentiles and have seen nothing in the New Testament to counteract it.

 

[seangoh]

AC 15:28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
AC 15:29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (NASB)

I think there are a couple of important issues that the list left out besides pork. It left out the other 9 commandments as it only says to avoid fornication. Thou shalt not kill is not there. Honor your parents is not there. Therefore, i won't see this statement by Peter and Paul, which i believe too they were moved by the Holy Spirit, as a be all and end all. The Gentiles were new believers and trying to get accustomed to what Christianity was about.

To get the context right, we have to look at verse 24.
"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:"

Over here we learnt two things. We see that circumcision is no longer necessary to be kept. Secondly, we see that the law is no longer needed to be kept too. The word "law" is used in a generic way and can refer to different laws in the bible. So it is up to us to find out which law it's referring to. I don't believe that it's referring to the 10 commandments or moral law because they are what defines our relationship with God (first 4) and our relationship with our fellow man (last 6). Paul even said "Do we then make void the law through faith,God forbid!" (Rom 3:31) So Paul knew that there is a certain law that still remained and it was the moral law.

Therefore, what acts 15:24 refers to is the laws that the Jews had came up with, their load of legal observances which were a great burden to those who want to keep it because it was so difficult! Once again, it can't be the moral law because it says in 1 John 5:3 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

Refer to Acts 15:10 and you see this
"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"
It doesn't sound like the same law which 1 John 5:3 is referring to. But it's the additional laws the Jews "invented".

The Jews were pressing the Gentiles to keep those stringent laws that they came up with such that the Gentiles were greatly troubled (v24)
And Peter and Paul had to come along and clarify things saying "Ok, these are the basic stuff you need to do for now, and you will be fine. Don't get confused by what the others are saying. Just follow the guildeline i give. And by the way, circumcision is no longer necessary."

Now, Truth is progressive, the Bible cannot be condensed into those few sentences. The Bible can only be condensed to one word-love. And even love is not there! So this is another reason why i won't accept that those few sentences are the whole "requirement" of Christianity. The view i presented might be new to you (esp the laws) but it makes perfect sense if you can see it the way i see it.

Surely if Peter or Paul had been told by the Holy Spirit otherwise they would have given a different command to the gentiles. Remember that pork was common in the diet of the gentiles. (Remember the demon Christ sent into the herd of domesticated swine?) Paul later amplified the rule concerning meat sacrificed to idols. Basically saying don't ask and if told don't eat.

Yes once again, Peter and Paul were only giving them basic instructions, first steps in their new christian life.

I equate modern sayers that pork is evil with those in the first century that said that circumcision was required. You are putting an unfair burden on those that are not under law and are thus in sin yourselves. Remember Paul's coment that he wished the circumcision crowd would go all the way and emasculate themselves?

Since you said we are no longer under the law, I don't know how would you harmonize it with Rom 3:31. I would believe you'll have a tough time harmonizing it with Rom 6:14 too.
"For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

The only way to find truth is to compare text with text and see whether it all fits well and harmonizes well. Here's an explanation of Rom 6:14:

Paul is not referring here primarily to any law in particular but to law as a principle. His point is that Christians are not under law as a way of salvation, but under grace. Law cannot save a sinner, nor can law put an end to sin or its dominion. Law reveals sin (ch. 3:20), and because of the sinfulness of man, law, as it were, causes transgression to increase (ch. 5:20). Law cannot forgive sin, nor can law provide any power to overcome it. The sinner who seeks to be saved under law will find only condemnation and deeper enslavement to sin. Wherever the principle is held that man can save himself by his own works, there is no effective barrier against sin.

The offer to be under grace, thus to have victory over sin, and the enabling power for the attainment of every virtue, have been extended to every one of the descendants of Adam (John 3:16). But many have blindly or stubbornly chosen to remain under law. Even many who profess an earnest desire to be saved prefer to remain under law, as if they could commend themselves to God and earn salvation by their own obedience to law. Such was the experience of the Jews, and such is the experience of many professed Christians today, who in their pride of self-righteousness are not willing to acknowledge their own helplessness and to surrender themselves wholly to the mercy and transforming grace of God.
Paul is saying that as long as a man is under law he remains also under the dominion of sin, for law cannot save one from either the condemnation or the power of sin. But those who are under grace receive not only release from condemnation (Rom. 8:1) but also power to overcome (ch. 6:4). Thus sin no longer will have dominion over them.

IOW, we are saved solely by the grace of Christ through faith and not by works. However, there is and has to be a law that reveals sin in our lives and that is the moral law. And we keep this moral law because we are saved (and have experienced this saving grace), not to be saved.

Finally, i wouldn't regard to those dietary laws as a law per se. I prefer to regard them as guidelines for the human to follow with regards to his/her own health. And a strong motivating factor of keeping strictly to them is because i know God loves me and therefore, He knows best what's clean and unclean. Like a parent giving instructions to the child what he should eat and not eat. If no such instructions were given, then any moving thing would be food. And that would be disastrous! So they are also guidelines for my own health benefit. Think of all the ailments that plague humans now. Headache, sickness, migraine, cancer. Remember the old saying "You are what you eat"? Any other reason why Vegans, Vegetarians and people who eat clean (i can give you a study done if you want) happen to be healthier than the rest?

 

[ShirChadash]

I believe the direction in Acts 15 is binding on all gentiles and have seen nothing in the New Testament to counteract it.

I agree with the above statement wholeheartedly, and would like to add the rest of the pertinent passage of Scripture from Acts 15:

19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

The issue at hand in this chapter was whether Gentiles had to be circumcised in the flesh in order to be *saved* and to be in fellowship with the believing Jews. The apostles ruled that in order for Gentiles to keep fellowship with believing Jews, they would need to avoid the things of idolatry (the four things mentioned in vs 20; at least three of which are things a Jew would sooner die than do, as I understand it). Abstaining from these four things was the *minimum* requirement necessary for Gentiles. Yet verse 21 clearly states that this minimum was acceptable as a starting point **since** the apostles understood that Gentiles coming to faith in Yeshua would be attending synagogue and in time learning the rest of the Torah (of G-d, through Moses) every Sabbath -- essentially stating that believing Gentiles were expected to go forward from the minimum standards (in vs 20) to hearing and learning (and following, as far as I can see) Torah.

So, no... I do not eat pork

Shalom!
Zemi

 

[preston08]

"God says, 'When a person sins, they get a headache'"

I really disagree. I have sinned all my life and never once have I gotten a headache. (decreasing sins every day) I have literally never had a headeache.

So what you are saying is that after someon has sex, or gets drunk, or high, they get a headache? No.. they would usually get the opposite and feel good and relaxed.

But you could of course be talking about Christians getting headaches when they sin, that I could see being true for some..

 

[The_Saint]

Where does God say that?

Okay, it's not in the Bible about getting headaches, however, when I spoke to God directly, He told me that people get headaches after they sin. The most obvious is getting a hangover from drinking too much the night before. Though really, people get headaches from doing anything contrary to God's Word such as not taking a day off (Honoring the Sabbath) or eating pork (Lev. 11:7) or gambling to name a few.

My headaches stopped about 3 years ago even though I've been doing everything God's way since 1992. And even before then I was giving praise and glory to God, only I wasn't taking my day off seriously and I did eat pork. Now all that is changed and I feel great!

 

[preston08]

Well I bet there have been people who have done things wrong and not gotten a headache.. but who's to say.

 

[Sharky]

Pork is alright for me cause i don't believe it's wrong anymore. I eat it all the time. (Bless this food God )

"Then let us no more criticize and blame and pass judgement on one another, but rather decide and endeavor never to put a stumbling block on an obstacle or a hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am convinced (persuaded) as one in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is [forbidden as[ essentially unclean (defiled and unholy in itself), But [none the less] it is unclean (defiled and unholy) to anyone who thinks it is unclean." ROM14: 13-14

 

[Sharky]

Ok people, I'm chinese from Hong Kong, and if you didn't realise we are PORK Experts.

OH man YOU'RE CHINESE?!
I kept thinking you're a yank!

Sorry dude!

 

[seangoh]

"Then let us no more criticize and blame and pass judgement on one another, but rather decide and endeavor never to put a stumbling block on an obstacle or a hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am convinced (persuaded) as one in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is [forbidden as[ essentially unclean (defiled and unholy in itself), But [none the less] it is unclean (defiled and unholy) to anyone who thinks it is unclean." ROM14: 13-14

Hi Sharky, i'm going to have to disagree with you on this point, as with the other posters above with other verses they put forth.

[font=arial, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]It is well to consider this entire chapter in its context. Paul was writing about a problem of judging among the apostolic believers. Verses 4, 10, and 13 exhort against the sin of judging one another. And it was true that a serious division existed in that early church. The Gentile Christians were judging the Jewish Christians, and the Jewish Christians were judging the Gentile Christians.[/font]

[font=arial, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]Notice how the previous verse strikes at the very heart of the issue. "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Verse 13.[/font]

[font=arial, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]What was the basis of the problem? Over what were they judging each other? The Gentiles who had come into the church from paganism were offended because the Jewish Christians ate food that had been offered in sacrifice to idols. And the Jewish Christians judged the Gentile church members because they had no regard for the ceremonial days that they still observed from Judaism.[/font]

[font=arial, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]Some of the Gentile converts were so fearful of eating meat offered to idols that they ate only vegetables. Paul spoke of them in verses 1 and 2. The Jewish Christians thought that was ridiculous and apparently made divisive attacks against their fellow Christians. It was so serious that Paul addressed the problem again in 1 Corinthians 8:8-12. There he elaborated at length on the "weak brother" (the Gentile believer) who esteemed the food unfit to be eaten.[/font]

[font=arial, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]What was Paul's counsel to the Jewish members who were judging the Gentile members? He told them not to eat the food offered to idols if they were in the presence of those who thought it to be wrong. Even though they had knowledge that the idol was nothing, he told the Jewish converts: "And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. 1 Corinthians 8:11, 12.[/font]

[font=arial, Arial, Helvetica, Verdana]The food offered to idols was not unclean food (Acts 14:13), but was merely esteemed so by the Gentile converts. It was not a moral issue. Neither was the matter of the ceremonial days, which Paul mentioned in Romans 14:5. He told them to stop judging over those issues and to get on with the work. These matters had nothing to do with the moral questions of the seventh-day Sabbath and the forbidden unclean food.[/font]

Also, the word “nothing” must not be understood in its absolute sense. Words often convey more than one meaning; therefore, the particular definition intended must in each case be determined by the context. For example, when Paul said, “All things are lawful unto me” (1 Cor. 6:12), his statement, when isolated from the context, could be interpreted as a declaration that the apostle was a libertine. The context, which is a warning against immorality, immediately prohibits such a deduction. Similarly in Ex. 16:4 the expression “every day” could be interpreted as meaning every day of the week. However, the context shows that the Sabbath is excluded.

Have fun in your bible study!

 

[Sharky]

Hey seangoh.

Thanks for the explaination however it still doesn't change my views. In any rate my personal convictions allow me to eat pork so there!

 

[Alessandro]

One should decrease the intake of pork and other (pig) meat mainly becuase of health issue, healthy diets. Same issue with shellfish.

 

[Kathy]

With me,if I eat just a little pork,I get such a lousy headache....so I hardly touch it. Really didn't know it was a sin to eat pork.... ???