Do you consider yourself saved?

twin1954 · Aug 10, 2014

ALoveDivine said:
This. If our performance is what determined our eternal destiny, not a single human being would be saved. No, not one. Christ not only died for us, he lived for us, he fulfilled the divine standard of righteousness in our place.

The gospel is essentially a legal exchange. Our sins are charged to Christ's account, and he pays the penalty. Likewise, his righteousness is charged to our account and we receive the reward. When we are united to him by faith in him and what he has done for us, this exchange is eternally ratified.

You want to know the truth? If you trust in Christ alone for your salvation, and have turned to him in faith, then there is nothing in this life that you could ever possibly do to make God love you any less. When he looks at you he doesn't see your filth, he sees his beloved Son in you. I don't think we truly understand just how much our heavenly Father loves us, and that is a shame.

Great thoughts.

Have you ever considered that Christ is the Surety of a better covenant? Heb.7:22 It was more than just a legal transaction it was an actual exchange. When Christ committed Himself in the Covenant of Grace as the Surety of His people He made their sin and debt His own. He bore the full responsibility of it. Peter tells us that He bore our sin in His own body not on His body,1Pet. 2:24. 2Cor. 5:21 says that He was made to be sin for us.

Now look at Prov. 17:15:
He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
(Pro 17:15)
This applies to God as well as men. If God were to punish the just without guilt then He would be an abomination to Himself. Christ didn't just carry our sin He made it His own and put it away by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb. 9:26

A surety isn't a co-signer that agrees to pay what is lacking but one who takes full responsibility on Himself for the debt and the debtor is set free because of it. Example would be Judah becoming surety for Benjamin in Gen. 43:9; Paul for Onisimus, Philemon 18; and the Lord Jesus in the garden, John 18:7-8
Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
(Joh 18:7-8)

MWood · Aug 10, 2014

twin1954 said:
It is by grace alone through faith alone. Faith is the conduit through which grace flows. Both are necessary and both are the gift of God. Eph. 2:8
Scripture please. Abram was called out by God to a land that was promised to his seed. He was a sojourner in that land was buried in it as well. Are you suggesting that sin wasn't sin until Sinai? I think Rom. 5 would dispute that. Of course he did. Rom. 4:20-25 would dispute that claim. So it is your contention that being righteous before God is not salvation? He is called the son of perdition. That pretty much settles it.

It has been a long time since I have read the story of Abram leaving the land of his father. But this has caused me to review it again.
Now Abram was in Haran when the Lord came to him and told him to get out of his fathers land. He DIDN'T stop and lay over anywhere until he got to the land of Cannan. So that is settled. Gen 12
The first mention of sin is in Gen 4:7, so no. Multiple wives/concubines were not condemned in those days, so it was not a sin. Rom5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. It was condemned later but I can't recall the verses.
I read Rom 4 and nowhere does it say that Abraham was saved, but it says that Abraham believed God an it was counted to him for righteousness.
I am contending that being righteous before God is not salvation.

That don't settle it. Did he believe that Jesus was the Son of God? It don't say. Did he call on the name of the Lord before he died? It don't say. For whosoerver callth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How can we know?

twin1954 · Aug 10, 2014

MWood said:
It has been a long time since I have read the story of Abram leaving the land of his father. But this has caused me to review it again.
Now Abram was in Haran when the Lord came to him and told him to get out of his fathers land. He DIDN'T stop and lay over anywhere until he got to the land of Cannan. So that is settled. Gen 12

I am not sure what your point is.

The first mention of sin is in Gen 4:7, so no. Multiple wives/concubines were not condemned in those days, so it was not a sin. Rom5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. It was condemned later but I can't recall the verses.

Read the next verse. Rom. 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
(Rom 5:14)
This is speaking of babies who die in infancy. It means that sin carried a penalty before the law given on Sinai. Why? Because of Adams transgression. Adam was the federal head of all who are in him the same as Christ is the federal head of all who are in Him. They died because they were sinners in Adam. What Paul is saying is that there was a law before Sinai. It was contained in the covenant of works made with Adam.

I read Rom 4 and nowhere does it say that Abraham was saved, but it says that Abraham believed God an it was counted to him for righteousness.
I am contending that being righteous before God is not salvation.

You will have to prove that by the Scriptures I am afraid. Salvation is to be without sin before God. That is what it means to be justified. I will give you an illustration. Say I rob a bank and am caught. I am guilty of that crime and therefore sentenced to 10 years in jail. I serve my time and am let out. I am no longer a debtor to the law for my crime but I am still guilty of it. Justification is to be not guilty. Salvation is to be justified before God as not guilty. If you are righteous before God He cannot condemn you. Of course salvation entails more than just justification it has to do with adoption, pardon, forgiveness and sanctification among other things. But to be justified means you are saved.

That don't settle it. Did he believe that Jesus was the Son of God? It don't say. Did he call on the name of the Lord before he died? It don't say. For whosoerver callth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How can we know?

The Scriptures are clear that Judas was not saved. Look at the verses given you by myself and others. No the actual literal words Judas was not saved do not appear in the Scriptures but they do clearly teach it. Do you also deny the Trinity because the Scriptures do not literally say it? Do you deny substitution because the word is not used in the Scriptures?

Digout · Aug 11, 2014

98cwitr said:
Simple boolean question...

I believe in the way, the life and the truth of Jesus. That is the only way to salvation. Yet, I may fail, falter and stumble on the way. I seek His understanding and forgiveness. I believe He will be my advocate when I stand before God the Father. Finally, it was for God to decide on my salvation based on my life and deeds. I have nothing to claim of assurance of salvation beforehand!

MWood · Aug 11, 2014

twin1954 said:
I am not sure what your point is.
Read the next verse. Rom. 5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
(Rom 5:14)
This is speaking of babies who die in infancy. It means that sin carried a penalty before the law given on Sinai. Why? Because of Adams transgression. Adam was the federal head of all who are in him the same as Christ is the federal head of all who are in Him. They died because they were sinners in Adam. What Paul is saying is that there was a law before Sinai. It was contained in the covenant of works made with Adam.
You will have to prove that by the Scriptures I am afraid. Salvation is to be without sin before God. That is what it means to be justified. I will give you an illustration. Say I rob a bank and am caught. I am guilty of that crime and therefore sentenced to 10 years in jail. I serve my time and am let out. I am no longer a debtor to the law for my crime but I am still guilty of it. Justification is to be not guilty. Salvation is to be justified before God as not guilty. If you are righteous before God He cannot condemn you. Of course salvation entails more than just justification it has to do with adoption, pardon, forgiveness and sanctification among other things. But to be justified means you are saved.

The Scriptures are clear that Judas was not saved. Look at the verses given you by myself and others. No the actual literal words Judas was not saved do not appear in the Scriptures but they do clearly teach it. Do you also deny the Trinity because the Scriptures do not literally say it? Do you deny substitution because the word is not used in the Scriptures?

From the way you presented 5:14, that makes 5:13 moot. I don't see any of 5:14 as for babies, It is talking about adults that were sinning, but the sins were not the breaking of a commandment of God as Adam did. Thus the similitude of Adam. The sins that were committed before the giving of the law were not imputed to them, as per verse 5:13.

As for salvation? There is no salvation if there is no belief. All the world Is sin free in the eyes of God because of the Blood shed on the Cross. This Blood gave the world forgiveness of sins, redemption, sanctification, reconciliation, and justification. If you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and you believe in His death, burial, and resurrection. There is no salvation unless you first believe. The only reason anyone will be cast into the lake of fire is because of their unbelief. Not for their sins

Being righteous before God? Where do I get this righteousness? The only righteousness that I will have is the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Any other righteousness is being self righteous, sanctimonious, full of myself, pious, proud, etc. That righteousness is an abomination to God.

Now Judas. Thank you all for your input. The things that I wrote about Judas were musings I suppose. Wondering if perhaps after having faithfully served God......

Oh yeah... One more thing. Where is this covenant of works that God made with Adam? You say there are laws contained in it?

98cwitr · Aug 11, 2014

classicalhero said:
I don't consider myself to be saved, I know I am saved.

You might wanna look up the definition of "consider" then

Nord Christian · Aug 12, 2014

I do believed I am saved, yes. I accepted Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior a couple of years ago. I also confessed my sins sincerely to him while doing so. With full belief, I truly believe what he did for me at the cross.

What I haven't done yet is get baptized. Not good I know, but it isn't a requirement for salvation.

twin1954 · Aug 12, 2014

Nord Christian said:
I do believed I am saved, yes. I accepted Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior a couple of years ago. I also confessed my sins sincerely to him while doing so. With full belief, I truly believe what he did for me at the cross.

What I haven't done yet is get baptized. Not good I know, but it isn't a requirement for salvation.

Why would you put off identifying yourself with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ before men? No it isn't a requirement but it is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Those who refuse to be baptized refuse to identify themselves with Christ and at the very least bring their profession under suspicion.

Nord Christian · Aug 12, 2014

twin1954 said:
Why would you put off identifying yourself with the death, burial and resurrection of Christ before men? No it isn't a requirement but it is the answer of a good conscience toward God. Those who refuse to be baptized refuse to identify themselves with Christ and at the very least bring their profession under suspicion.

I was going to a Baptist church where they do the baptisms right in the church. I really enjoyed the service and the Pastor. I don't drive though,
and they picked some of us up by bus.

I had asked the Pastor who drove the bus about getting baptized. He said he would contact another Pastor. He later apologized and said he had been busy. Nothing came about of it.

Normally, on Sunday mornings, he'd call me to see if I was going to church, and truthfully I had skipped a good number of Sundays. Eventually he stopped calling, and I stopped going. He has my number but never calls.

Another things I wasn't crazy about was that we were given little time to socialize with others after the service, before having to board the bus again to depart the church. Would have liked to have gotten to know some other Christian followers better.

ALoveDivine · Aug 12, 2014

What I haven't done yet is get baptized. Not good I know, but it isn't a requirement for salvation.

Yeah man I myself procrastinated on getting baptized, I didn't really understand the significance of it or how important it was or how to go about it. I really had no experience with church prior to getting saved. It is very important but, you are correct, it is not necessary for salvation. As Christians though we are commanded to get baptized and that should be enough.

I would just look for a good church to attend and then ask the pastor when the next baptism service is. I did this and the pastor was happy to help, and I got baptized two weeks after talking to him. It was a wonderful experience.

My advice would be to find a big (but not too big!) non-denominational church with solid doctrine and biblical preaching. They are out there, trust me. Beware of a church with sermons that sound more like a Dr. Phil seminar, and avoid like the plague any church that talks about how Jesus wants you to drive a Maserati and be rich, or does "speaking in tongues" or any of that nonsense.

But if you can find a decent-sized church with biblical preaching and plenty of opportunities to get involved, start going there. That's what I did and its been a tremendous blessing. These kinds of churches tend to have regular baptism services and it is relatively easy to get plugged into different small groups, service projects, and things like that where you can meet some new Christian friends and have some solid community in your life. My advice would be to get as involved as you can and go as often as possible, we need fellowship to grow as Christians.

If you want to find a church like that PM me with your general area, and I'll see if I can't find a good one for you.

tall73 · Aug 13, 2014

98cwitr said:
YAY PREDESTINATION! <---and there's how I'd explain it. They no longer sinned after their repenting and were predestined to salvation.

It is not accurate that Christians no longer sin after they repent unto salvation:

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned.
Gal 2:12 For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.
Gal 2:13 And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
Gal 2:14 But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?"

Cephas and Barnabas were Christians, but their actions were wrong in this instance.

The point being that committing sins does not mean you are not a Christian.

We are saved by grace.

However, I agree with what you say that we need to be honest about the trend of our life. If we see nothing of Christ reflected there, are we really walking by His Spirit?

Notice what John says:

1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
1Jn 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Even Christians sin. God does not want us to, and neither did John. But if we do we have an advocate.

He does however go on to say:

1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,

Our lives should show love for Christ and others.

By the way, you forgot a verse form Philippians:
Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,

It is even part of the same sentence:

Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

God is able to make us willing.

And also look at this text:

Rom 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

It is God who renews our mind that is being pressed into the mold of this world if we let the world do so.

We are to present ourselves as a living Sacrifice.

It is God's work. Yet we are to present ourselves for Him to do it.

We can conform or we can ask God to transform. And he is writing here to Christians. Yes, even Christians have a choice to make.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Fruit is a natural product of the tree. Yet, Paul still says "let us keep in step with the Spirit".
We can keep in step with the Spirit. Or we can become conceited.

We voluntarily walk in step with the Spirit, allowing God's thoughts more and more to be our thoughts, allowing His Spirit more and more to be in us. Then we bear fruit.

And again, speaking even to the disciples, Christ indicates that they should abide in Him if they want fruit:

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

Notice He doesn't say "wait for your 'saved' nature to kick in and then you won't have any more sin problem." He says, abide in me and you will bear fruit.

tall73 · Aug 13, 2014

twin1954 said:
Then it is right that God use you for His purpose in whatever way He sees fit. I am convinced that you not only acknowledge this truth but take comfort in it.

I am sure he would take comfort in protecting his wife. I am not sure he would take comfort in eternally burning hell because God destined him for that.

I guess you will have to ask him a thousand years into the process.

Or he could just take God's statement that He wants all men to be saved at face value, and therefore not be needlessly afraid of being elected for damnation.

tall73 · Aug 13, 2014

98cwitr said:
The whole reason I believe in God is because I am convinced I have been protected by Him

Then think on these words:

Php 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

I am praying for you.

Jeffwhosoever · Aug 13, 2014

I am saved and I sin. I don't believe any human being can avoid sin, and Paul tells us this very emphatically in the first books of Roman. You have sins of omission as well as sins of actual acts. I'd guess that the average Christian sins probably a dozen times a day, but it may range from 1 to 100/day. You don't have to break the 10 commandments to sin.

tall73 · Aug 13, 2014

98cwitr, consider the letter to the Corinthians. Here was a church that had problems on top of problems. Paul wrote to them to get them back on course. Notice what he says of a man who had sinned:

2Co 2:3 And I wrote as I did, so that when I came I might not suffer pain from those who should have made me rejoice, for I felt sure of all of you, that my joy would be the joy of you all.
2Co 2:4 For I wrote to you out of much affliction and anguish of heart and with many tears, not to cause you pain but to let you know the abundant love that I have for you.
2Co 2:5 Now if anyone has caused pain, he has caused it not to me, but in some measurenot to put it too severelyto all of you.
2Co 2:6 For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough,
2Co 2:7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.
2Co 2:8 So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him.
2Co 2:9 For this is why I wrote, that I might test you and know whether you are obedient in everything.
2Co 2:10 Anyone whom you forgive, I also forgive. Indeed, what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ,
2Co 2:11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

As Blue said Satan does have schemes to overwhelm us at times with excessive sorrow. Instead we should forgive one another, turn away from sin, and accept God's forgiveness of us.

Again Paul writes to the Corinthians:

2Co 7:8 For even if I made you grieve with my letter, I do not regret itthough I did regret it, for I see that that letter grieved you, though only for a while.
2Co 7:9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.
2Co 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

If you honestly look at your life and believe it is not what Christ wants it to be, then accept this rebuke, and repent, and then you need not have grief any longer.

orangeness365 · Aug 13, 2014

No one is supposed to judge whether anyone is going to heaven or hell before God judges them. People are not supposed to even judge themself, although I'm not sure I'm going to make it.

1 Corinthians 4:3-5
3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

Avid · Aug 13, 2014

orangeness365 said:
... People are not supposed to even judge themself...

Please consider the following verses, and see that this may not be true. If God tells us to do this, that opinion may not be accurate.

I Corinthians 11
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

II Corinthians 13
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Proverbs 28
13 ¶ He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Some people are not clear on the meaning of "JUDGE," and what you are required to do, or required NOT to do. We are commanded to Examine and Prove our own selves. and to JUDGE ourselves. That does not mean CONDEMN ourselves, or sentence ourselves to HELL, but to examine our own motives and actions. If you KNOW what you are doing is wrong, judge it as wrong, and FIX that. If you cannot, cry unto God for help and the ability to turn away from what you know you are doing that's wrong.

If we think we can hide from the judgment of God by covering up what we have done, we are mistaken. Not only is God aware of every thought and deed, the ones we have wronged are crying to God to avenge them upon us. (Genesis 4:9-11, Revelation 6:10)

.

twin1954 · Aug 13, 2014

tall73 said:
I am sure he would take comfort in protecting his wife. I am not sure he would take comfort in eternally burning hell because God destined him for that.

I guess you will have to ask him a thousand years into the process.

Or he could just take God's statement that He wants all men to be saved at face value, and therefore not be needlessly afraid of being elected for damnation.

He knew what I meant and so do you. Quit the twists they are beneath you.

tall73 · Aug 13, 2014

twin1954 said:
He knew what I meant and so do you. Quit the twists they are beneath you.

It is not twisting to say that he will be beyond miserable in an eternally burning hell, even if he did manage to help his wife out in this life. If you think otherwise then you are certainly the one twisting.

Nor do I think he should just accept the notion that he could be pre-determined for damnation, when God makes many appeals throughout that he can respond to.

And you can stop the lecturing on how to discuss. You have done little of what you claim is the proper method. Stop by your context thread if you want to remedy that.

Marbleyes902 · Aug 13, 2014

A question I've often pondered........
Will there be people in heaven, who had no idea that they were "saved"?
In other words, will there be folks in heaven who are surprised
that there is an afterlife and a heaven?
or
Is it that those who will be there, have that knowledge before they die?
No one there will have expected anything else. They may not have had
a clue as to what it will be like, but without failure, everyone had "saving faith"?

We all know that hell will be filled with the unfortunates who had no idea that
they were in fact, damned. That is our present condition as believers, to know the
path to life, and to share it. In whatever fashion that takes.
I'm awake, it's time to wake the neighbours!

Do you consider yourself saved?

Do you consider yourself saved

Yes

No

I dont know

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